Anti-Mormons

[bytor2112]

Ktfords,

Perhaps one reason you have had these experiences is because of where you begin the discussion at......

May I suggest a surefire way to not have any doubts what so ever as to the teachings of our church. Steps 1 & 2 will give you knowledge, Step 3 will let you know if the knowledge is true or just an interesting story.

Step #1 Find a local ward and attend.... all three hours. Repeat process weekly.

Step#2 Ask questions.... to members and Missionaries.

Step #3 Pray about it, with real intent. Repeat this step daily.

:):):):D:D:

[candyprpl]

I'm not talking about those idiots down at temple square, I totally disagree with them.

I'm talking about anybody who tries to speak their beliefs in love, as mormons do. Mormons goals are to convert as many as possible, as any other religion is trying to do. Mormons don't want to listen. They say "if it is not of our teaching, we won't listen". How about the open mind?

If you ask questions, most mormons tend to shut down and label that person anti, instead of listening to their believes with an open heart as you say. If you your mind was open as you ask others to do, you would listen. Right?

The questions, are usually of a nature, where I am asking for clarification only, asking them to explain this to me. Instead, the subject was denied and I'm labeled anti. If you belief it, claim it.

This is why you don't have other religions knocking on your doors, they know mormons will not listen to anything not of their teachings. This is not all mormons, I have had some really good conversations, I feel it is the majority that will not listen, no matter what any other religions has to say.

It seems to be a one-way road.

I have never run across the Mormons you are talking about. Before I joined the LDS church I had my sisters and there families who were all very active 'Mormons' and I never felt that they didn't listen to me in what I believed at the time. They would visit our parents church and were very respectful. They worked with the minister who led the services for each of my parents funerals. Heck, they even visited a seminar of a group that I was involved in when I thought I had found what I was looking for -- A New Age type seminar. And we had great discussions without yelling who was right. And never did a missionary upset me when they knocked on my door and we would share different views. One of my brother-in-laws was converted to the church because of the members attitudes of respect. He was raised Catholic and he tells me that during the discussions with the missionaries and other members (because when he married my sister, she continued to be active) he says that he never felt threatened or uneasy around the LDS church. After 7 years of this kindness he joined the church and has a very strong testimony. I'm always willing and like hearing other's beliefs.

[jimuk]

Well, me i found the Church of Jesus christ of latter day saints, i listened to the beautiful teachings of the missionaries and was well pleased, why on gods own earth would i want to have an open mind and listen to the teachings of any other denominations, Lest they confuse my own beliefs.

I really do not want to listen to churches that used to burn people at the stake and torture others, in the name of god, Hmm something is very wrong there me thinks, so what can other churches teach me..

Most anties know no history of their church and how they would terrify the congregation into their religion.

This is for any anti Mormon.

Who can honestly tell me one thing that the LDS (church) do in the world that is bad or unkind to anyone, what teachings are so bad, is it the love, the compassion, the forgiveness, the kindness, the love they have for their fellow man (not just LDS members) or maybe its the true love and, respect that they have for their Father in heaven, This is not just the members, it is THE CHURCH as a whole.

Does this sound like other denominations have anything to teach us, yes we can learn the above attributes from members of other denominations, but not the teachings of their churches. if their church teachings have anything to teach me then do please tell me, i do want to know.

I have prayed about these things and the answers have indeed been made known to me by the spirit.

This really doesent make me anti non members of our church, it means that i have found what the father and the holy ghost wanted me to find, which is the church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints.

Please help me to understand why we are not christians please lol, in layman's terms please. Because I love my brother Jesus and i know he is the saviour of humankind.

for anti mormon christians.

Whatsoever thing ye shall ask the Father in my name, which is good, in faith believing that ye shall receive, behold, it shall be done unto you.

So just ask your father in heaven About the "Mormons" If you truly want to know, but ask as a christian, with love in your heart for all.

Edited July 22, 2008 by jimuk

[prisonchaplain]

If Anti's are the ones who actively seek to turn people away from the Church. What is the difference when missionaries will come to my neighborhood, and tell my neighbors "mormonism is the only true christain faith" basically trying to convert them?

It's subtle, but significant that the LDS missionaries do not come to my door to condemn the heresies of the Assemblies of God, but rather to promote their own churches teachings. They also do not walk outside my church with signs that say, "Pentecostals, the fires of hell await you!"

This applies to both sides if you ask me.

Isn't the Church's axe to grind, their mission to convert everybody else? Why is the mormon church any different than any other religion? The LDS church spreads their beliefs by use of the missionary field, and they bombard the tv with commercials.

Again, it's one matter to promote your church's unique teachings, and quite another to target and condemn a church. Let me offer an example:

WRONG: Your church teaches that you must work your way to heaven! The Bible says we are saved by grace, not works. Your church is wrong, and if you stay with it, you are a heretic, and will burn in hell!

RIGHT: We believe that salvation is by grace. You cannot earn God's wonderful gift of eternal life with him. It's freely given. Wouldn't you like to receive that gift?

Oh...you believe you must work, and endure to the end before you can have confidence of your salvation? Well, here's what I believe...

You'll cover much of the same ground, but the spiritual tone is positive, confident, and yet respectful.

Christians, baptists and catholics will try to speak to a mormon, and consequently, labeled Anti. They are trying to spread their news as the Mormon church is doing the same.

I sincerely believe the label "Anti" is thrown at those who come with a harsh tone and an unwillingness to discuss, rather than monologue.

I personally have been told by missionaries, that they do not teach exaltation (becoming a god), I know you do. This sounds like the above quote by bytor. [are willing to do or say whatever will further their agenda.]

Or maybe they misunderstood your question, and believed that you were trying to corner them into saying something negative? It's a strong charge to accuse any religious representatives of intentional deception.

If I am labeled an Anti for asking these questions of the mormon church, wouldn't the missionaries and the vase amount of commercials be considered anti-Christian, anti-catholic or anti-baptist? Can I label Mormons anti-whatever if you tell me about your beliefs? Just asking since there seems to be a double standard.

Are we not all quick to defend our faith, and slow to consider other religious traditions--especially ones our leaders have labled heterdox? Well, certainly the major LDS teachings are different from those of your church and mine. So, they consider our beliefs to be largely wrong. Nevertheless, through dialogue and sincerity, we can sometimes improve understanding, and everyone gets a chance to let their light shine.

IMHO, what creates distrust and defensiveness is aggressively accusing "the other" of false doctrine and dishonesty, rather than confidently proclaiming the truths you have. Accentuate the positive and the true, and then gently dialogue about areas of difference.

Edited July 22, 2008 by prisonchaplain

[Guest ceeboo]

Hi all,

My first post ( hooooooray LOL ) just figured out how to do it LOL

well I must say that this thread has been very interesting, I think I may have recieved my first dose of perspective that I was looking for. :)

God bless,

Carl

[Elphaba]

But isn't it somewhat redundant? To be insane in a stultifying way, kind of repeats itself.…

I don’t think that is how Snow meant it.

To illustrate, if one person wants to prove a different person is insane, he needs to dumb-down his portrayal of the actual events, simplyfying them so it is easily understood he is correct. He describes the incident in black and white terms rather than portraying it in its true complexity. Thus, his simplistic comments are stultefying.

However, to the listener, his true intent is obvious based on his biased portrayal of the incident, and his version of the events are easily dismiissed.

To whit, it is not the “insanity“ that is stultifying. It is the accusation.

At least, that is how I interpret it. If I’m wrong, I’m sure Snow will clarify.

Elphaba

Edited July 23, 2008 by Elphaba

[bytor2112]

It's nice to see that some members reserve the "anti" label for those who actively oppose the church, cause people have been less than generous with me. I find that when I am asked for my opinions and beliefs, and actually answer, I get branded an anti. It's just easier not to indulge peoples curiosity anymore.

Hmmm... I wonder how many LDS would be able to walk temple square in peace if I came to visit, when all the antis flock around me because they are distracted arguing with me about how I'm even more heretical than you are... lol

It would be like what I used to do in chat.

Wow, even more heretical than we are!!! Are you Scientologists or something?? How could they tell, funny clothes?:)

[tsubotsubo]

If someone's an anti-mormon, they will generally talk about the murdering and adultery done by prophets, they often talk about sexism and racism in the church, they talk about specific events like the forgeries sold to GBH, the Mountain Meadows Massacre, Emma Smith and Brigham Young's hatred of each other, changing of the Book of Mormon, DNA evidence against the BoM, different accounts of the 1st vision, the apparent ruthlessness of the likes of George Q. Cannon and Brigham Young, the mormon funded brothels, the church leaders being polygamous after they stopped polygamy, Brigham Young's 11-year old as an apostle, changing of the temple ceremony, George Q. Cannon's order to kill sexual sinners, Boyd K. Packer recommending to physically harm gay people, Jospeph Smith marrying 14 year-olds and sending men on missions to marry their wives, mormon women being depressed, Joseph Smith and Brigham Young prophesying about moonmen and the date of the 2nd coming, and getting it wrong, people having their calling of election made sure leaving the church, the Book of Abraham not being translated correctly, etc. and the church apparently hiding this from its members.

They don't realize that one or two of these 'facts' actually aren't true, and all the ones which are true may have been taken out of context, are a misunderstanding, a mistake, or, to be frank are nothing to do with the religion and do not disprove the religion (although they are unethical and bad). They don't seem to understand that if someone believes in a religion with all this 'darkness' in it so strongly there must be something more than appears on the cover.

[ktfords]

I have never run across the Mormons you are talking about. Before I joined the LDS church I had my sisters and there families who were all very active 'Mormons' and I never felt that they didn't listen to me in what I believed at the time. They would visit our parents church and were very respectful. They worked with the minister who led the services for each of my parents funerals. Heck, they even visited a seminar of a group that I was involved in when I thought I had found what I was looking for -- A New Age type seminar. And we had great discussions without yelling who was right. And never did a missionary upset me when they knocked on my door and we would share different views. One of my brother-in-laws was converted to the church because of the members attitudes of respect. He was raised Catholic and he tells me that during the discussions with the missionaries and other members (because when he married my sister, she continued to be active) he says that he never felt threatened or uneasy around the LDS church. After 7 years of this kindness he joined the church and has a very strong testimony. I'm always willing and like hearing other's beliefs.

In the last six years I have been in SLC. I have had 4 different families deny my children a chance to play with their children (before this question, everything went great for weeks) , this of course happened after this question, "are you lds"? All I would say is "no, were not", nothing else. Next, day my kids have been told by their new friends they can't play anymore. 4 times this has happened in a couple different neighborhoods. This story is just one that stands out.

In true Christianity, you are to love your neighbor as yourself and continue to love even if you don't agree. Why is this so common? I help all my neighbors, lds or not. I have been noticing trend, in the neighborhoods I've lived in , the lds tend to love thy lds neighbor. No one will help the elderly non lds, I took action and purchased a four wheeler with a plow (for snow removal). I now take care of all the non lds in my area (about 12 houses) every winter.

This isn't so loving when I see 4 lds famlies (neighbors) drive by an elderly non lds man (84 years old and is the nicest loving man and friendliest person on the block, in fact he calls himself a jack mormon) and ignore the foot of snow he is attempting to remove. If a neighbor needs help, lds or not, I am always ready to help.

As for having dialog, how can a non lds person have a conversation with a member of the Church, when the lds person has already condemned the other person's faith they are talking to?

Below is directly out of JS first vision from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints website. This is from Joseph Smith himself.

"I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: "they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof."

It is a one way conversation, lds are right, no one else is.

So, please tell me how you can have an open mind, when above, JS's first vision, says different.

[humbleone]

Im Agnostic as well and know where you are coming from about the whole reaction you get from people. I am always asked how I can have no godly guidance in my life. I have looked as well on the internet about the lds faith and get nothing but anti mormonism info . In my opinion there are those so dead set in their own faith, it makes them blind to others. Everyone is able to chose the religion they want to belong. We just need to take it in stride and remind ourselves what we believe in , what ever that religion may be.

[Vort]

In the last six years I have been in SLC. I have had 4 different families deny my children a chance to play with their children

Four families in six years = an average of one family every 18 months. A shameful occurrence, to be sure; but given that you are living in a city that is probably a third Mormon and that you are surrounded by Latter-day Saints, meeting one bad apple (or family) every 18 months should not be overly surprising.

true Christianity, you are to love your neighbor as yourself and continue to love even if you don't agree.

Like, for example, if they're unfriendly to you when they find out you're not LDS?

Why is this so common?

4 times in 6 years != common.

No one will help the elderly non lds, I took action and purchased a four wheeler with a plow (for snow removal). I now take care of all the non lds in my area (about 12 houses) every winter.

I assume you help those rascally Latter-day Saints, too.

As for having dialog, how can a non lds person have a conversation with a member of the Church, when the lds person has already condemned the other person's faith they are talking to?

Assuming you don't actually have the ability to read minds, you are inferring a great deal.

Below is directly out of JS first vision from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints website. This is from Joseph Smith himself.

"I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: "they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof."

It is a one way conversation, lds are right, no one else is.

Uh, yep. So...?

So, please tell me how you can have an open mind, when above, JS's first vision, says different.

In order to have an open mind, you have to believe that everyone else's worldview is correct? No, I disagree. One can have an open mind while still believing another party is incorrect. Or do you want to admit that you're actually as close-minded regarding the Latter-day Saints as they are regarding you?

[ktfords]

Four families in six years = an average of one family every 18 months. A shameful occurrence, to be sure; but given that you are living in a city that is probably a third Mormon and that you are surrounded by Latter-day Saints, meeting one bad apple (or family) every 18 months should not be overly surprising.

Like, for example, if they're unfriendly to you when they find out you're not LDS?

4 times in 6 years != common.

I assume you help those rascally Latter-day Saints, too.

Assuming you don't actually have the ability to read minds, you are inferring a great deal.

Uh, yep. So...?

In order to have an open mind, you have to believe that everyone else's worldview is correct? No, I disagree. One can have an open mind while still believing another party is incorrect. Or do you want to admit that you're actually as close-minded regarding the Latter-day Saints as they are regarding you?

If you read all my statements, I help all my neighbors, even the rascally ones..

[jimuk]

In the last six years I have been in SLC. I have had 4 different families deny my children a chance to play with their children (before this question, everything went great for weeks) , this of course happened after this question, "are you lds"? All I would say is "no, were not", nothing else. Next, day my kids have been told by their new friends they can't play anymore. 4 times this has happened in a couple different neighborhoods. This story is just one that stands out.

Hi ktfords, Your above problem is not anything to do with the church, it is down to individual members and i myself feel ashamed that your children have been put through this ordeal by members of the church, but as i said this is down to individuals and not anything to do with church doctrine

Also think on this. if they were not lds they could have been members of any church, and would you be complaining about their behavior or would you go to them and ask the reason for their actions.

[rameumptom]

In the last six years I have been in SLC. I have had 4 different families deny my children a chance to play with their children (before this question, everything went great for weeks) , this of course happened after this question, "are you lds"? All I would say is "no, were not", nothing else. Next, day my kids have been told by their new friends they can't play anymore. 4 times this has happened in a couple different neighborhoods. This story is just one that stands out.

In true Christianity, you are to love your neighbor as yourself and continue to love even if you don't agree. Why is this so common? I help all my neighbors, lds or not. I have been noticing trend, in the neighborhoods I've lived in , the lds tend to love thy lds neighbor. No one will help the elderly non lds, I took action and purchased a four wheeler with a plow (for snow removal). I now take care of all the non lds in my area (about 12 houses) every winter.

This isn't so loving when I see 4 lds famlies (neighbors) drive by an elderly non lds man (84 years old and is the nicest loving man and friendliest person on the block, in fact he calls himself a jack mormon) and ignore the foot of snow he is attempting to remove. If a neighbor needs help, lds or not, I am always ready to help.

As for having dialog, how can a non lds person have a conversation with a member of the Church, when the lds person has already condemned the other person's faith they are talking to?

Below is directly out of JS first vision from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints website. This is from Joseph Smith himself.

"I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: "they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof."

It is a one way conversation, lds are right, no one else is.

So, please tell me how you can have an open mind, when above, JS's first vision, says different.

I'm sorry you've had a bad experience with some LDS in your area. Sadly, there are many that are like that. But it is not what is taught by our leadership. In fact, during tragedies like Katrina, we tend to assist more non-members than members, as we had hundreds of LDS descend each weekend for 2 months to assist people.

What the Lord told Joseph Smith is that the CREEDS are bad and unacceptable to God. However, the Lord said nothing of the people in those religions at that time. Later, the Lord told Joseph in D&C that many of these people are good and decent, but just don't know where to find the truth.

And you must admit that there are some bad creeds in some churches. Do you accept Calvin's TULIP creed, where Christ's atonement is limited to just a few that God will arbitrarily choose, regardless of faith or obedience to Christ? Is such a view not an abomination in view of the scriptures, like John 3:16? How about Indulgences or worshipping virgins and saints? Are those acceptable creeds? As I see it, Indulgences were so abominable that Martin Luther wrote against them, was excommunicated, and later forgiven by the RCC, which later condemned Indulgences itself! So, who is for condemning Joseph Smith for being told that Indulgence creeds are an abomination?

We believe that all churches have truth and light in them. Alma 29:8 teaches that God gives truth to each nation, kindred and people, according to what they are ready to receive. So we believe there is truth and goodness in the RCC, Baptist, Islam, Buddhist, and Hindu religions. But we also believe there are errors and false creeds that need correcting. We believe that the LDS Church does not contain all truth, either - as all God's truth is not yet upon the earth. However, we believe we have greater light and truth given through modern prophets and apostles.

We believe in multiple levels of heaven, and each person will receive a level of heaven, except for the sons of perdition - those who totally reject Christ and goodness. Even wicked people like Hitler will receive the lowest heaven, after repentance and paying for their sins in Spirit Prison/World. So, we believe God so loved the world that he gave his Only Begotten Son.... We believe in a near universal salvation, and that many can also achieve exaltation (highest level of heaven) through being extremely faithful in seeking out Christ and the fullness of his truth, both here and in the Spirit World. Most people will not merit that level of heaven, as most are not interested in that level of heaven. Most are happy to settle in an easier level.

Many Baptists would make terrible Mormons, and many Mormons (including me) would make a lousy Baptist or Catholic. Therefore, God has opened the way for several levels of heaven, to provide the best for each of his children. All we Mormons are supposed to do, is offer our view to others, and give them a chance to accept higher truths, if they so choose.

Having said that, I do recognize that many Mormons do not act like Latter-day Saints, just as many Christians do not follow Christ beyond just lip service. You should have seen how I was treated by Christians when I lived in Montgomery, Alabama, in the center of the Bible belt. You think the LDS ignoring you, or keeping you at arm's length was bad? Imagine having people surround your temple/chapel and shout out you are going to go to hell if you don't change your life! Now THAT'S what I call being a Christian.

[bytor2112]

Ktford,

Sounds like you just don't like Mormons....I guess Utah wasn't the best choice for you to live, huh? Try somewhere in the South, there are plenty of "so-called" Christians here with similar views. Haven't you already condemned the LDS beliefs, hmm? Why are you any different? Would your theology be able to withstand the same type of intense scrutiny as ours have? No way. It's doubtful, that you even know why you believe what you believe regarding your own faith. If you studied your own faith's history and really knew what it was you claimed to believe, you might be quite surprised. Uh, wait.... I don't think we know what faith that is. But, I find most people like you to be just believers, just "saved", born again and ready to point out how wrong we are. I am sure I could point out how wrong you are, but I will rise above it. No one will help the non-LDS huh?? Right, those mean ole, close minded, bigoted Mormons. Uh huh, that's been my experience alright.

[jimuk]

Thanks for your last comment bytor, wish i could express myself like you.

[bytor2112]

Thanks for your last comment bytor, wish i could express myself like you.

Thanks.... I get a little red sometimes. When I read stuff like that it makes me crazy. I will never forget driving to Pascagoula, Mississippi after Katrina and working like a dog to remove carpet and drywall and cut fallen trees or whatever else was needed with thousands of other Saints. I am certain that we did not identify who were LDS and who were not. In Mississippi, it wasn't very many. Our faith is about serving others, we are always looking for service projects and especially look for ways to help non-members.

[Truegrits]

ktfords, I am sorry that your children have had that happen to them. That must be a difficult thing to explain to a child.

I have not known any LDS like the ones you describe. The LDS I know would be the first on the block to pitch in and help someone; the first to take food to the sick; to organize the youth to mow/pick up a yard for the elderly or infirm. Granted, I live in a small town, so maybe that is the difference.

I have had to ask my son, 15, to not hang around a couple of his friends. They are a poor example, in many ways, of how I wish my son to act, and what I would like him to be. They are, by the way, LDS.

I am not perfect; far from it. But do not attribute my flaws/imperfections to my Faith. If I do something to hurt or to anger someone, it is not because I am LDS, it is because I am an imperfect human being.

[Guest TheLutheran]

What an interesting thread! I would just like to offer that sometimes we "gentiles" encounter aspects of LDS doctrine and culture in very innocent ways which can lead to speculation and confusion about Mormonism. But that certainly doesn't make all of us anti-Mormon!

For example, our family's introduction to the "white and delightsome" or "pure and delightsome" concept came when our then 7-year-old daughter returned from school one day. She reported that one of her LDS girlfriends believed that the entire Rodriguez family of children was "turning white" because their formerly Roman Catholic father had finally decided to join the LDS church. This was in the mid-90s and I don't remember what the official teaching of the church was on that particular issue at the time or whether the language in the BoM had been altered yet but it certainly prompted interesting discussions and research at our house.

I have scores of other instances of how our unsuspecting Lutheran farm family was/is impacted by our surrounding Mormon culture in ways that lead to many questions about LDS doctrine and tradition. I hope that this curiosity (which led me to this board) coupled with my unwaivering Christian faith does not make me unwelcome here or considered anti-Mormon.

Edited July 23, 2008 by TheLutheran
spelling :)

[unixknight]

Thanks for your insights, prisonchaplain.

I once had a brother-in-law who was one of those "contenders" prisonchaplain referred to. This guy was all about getting me to convert out of LDS and had absolutely no compunctions about telling me - to my face - that I was destined to burn in Hell.

He even sent me pamphlets and tracts. What bothered me is that these tracts contained blatant lies about LDS doctrine that anybody who had bothered to do 5 minutes' worth of research could have seen the truth of for themselves, and yet here it was, presented as if from the mouth of Jesus Christ Himself!

So I wrote back responding to this, pointing out where the errors were and pointing out areas that were simply matters of theological disagreement. He stopped responding.

I tried to get a warm fuzzy from this, the idea being that he was just trying to do right by my soul or something, but the fact is I could never shake the feeling that he was just trying to somehow vindicate himself, or maybe he had inner guilt (he was caught cheating on my sister) and thought that maybe somehow by converting me he could make up for his wrongs.

I dunno.

[ktfords]

[Also think on this. if they were not lds they could have been members of any church, and would you be complaining about their behavior or would you go to them and ask the reason for their actions.

Yes, I would complain about other faiths/ non believers doing this.

I have lived in a lot of places, never, I said never, has another faith or a non believer done anything like this to me or my family before. Then, I had to explain the actions of those families and tell them (my kids) they did not do anything wrong.

I have attempted to ask why, usually no answer at the door, see me coming and run in the house, or drive by looking the other way, but, I did wave a guy over, his excuse, was a

"our kids aren't compatible", funny, they were best friends for weeks before this was said.

Reminder, I did nothing except answer this question, "are you lds". I said "no I'm not"..

Honestly, I thought this could never happen, until I moved here.

Edited July 23, 2008 by ktfords
clarify

[prisonchaplain]

I'm torn on this. We would not likely bar our children from playing with others who had a different religion, but, yes we'd be concerned. As much as we would want our children's lights to shine, and their faith to become stronger in the light of others who do not believe, we also are parents, with a natural desire to protect. And, we know that even adults can waiver, so children deserve extra care. Add to this general truth that those living in SLC often do so because it is a place where it is safe and supportive for LDS...it's not hard to believe that a few would go as far as to say, "Don't make close friends with unbelievers." I'm not even entirely sure this is completely wrong.

I would guess LDS would have the reverse experience in the Bible belt. How close would we want our evangelical kids to get with those we consider unorthodox? It might not matter so much...but then again, when our children start asking questions like, "Do we get to live forever as a family when we go to heaven?"--the temptation to create some distant might crop up.

I'm not saying these parents were right...but I (father of 3 young girls) do understand.

[jimuk]

What an interesting thread! I would just like to offer that sometimes we "gentiles" encounter aspects of LDS doctrine and culture in very innocent ways which can lead to speculation and confusion about Mormonism. But that certainly doesn't make all of us anti-Mormon!

For example, our family's introduction to the "white and delightsome" or "pure and delightsome" concept came when our then 7-year-old daughter returned from school one day. She reported that one of her LDS girlfriends believed that the entire Rodriguez family of children was "turning white" because their formerly Roman Catholic father had finally decided to join the LDS church. This was in the mid-90s and I don't remember what the official teaching of the church was on that particular issue at the time or whether the language in the BoM had been altered yet but it certainly prompted interesting discussions and research at our house.

I have scores of other instances of how our unsuspecting Lutheran farm family was/is impacted by our surrounding Mormon culture in ways that lead to many questions about LDS doctrine and tradition. I hope that this curiousity (which led me to this board) coupled with my unwaivering Christian faith does not make me unwelcome here or considered anti-Mormon.

Your curiosity is welcomed here, we love to have none members to talk to, what i personally object to are the guys that come here looking for a fight, yet call themselves "Christian" , why do they have to be so spiteful and hurtful with the horrible things they say about such a loving church, if thay are not sent here with the spirit to learn what we are about, then they are here to create contention amongst us, you must ask yourself why they would act in such an unchristian way, and who must have sent them, and why.

[bytor2112]

My wife and I only ask that our son's friends have good standards.My eldest son's two best friends are a Catholic and a kid who doesn't go to church and never has....both awesome kids. My youngest son's two best buds are a Southern Baptist and a Methodist, again great kids. There are some LDS boys that I wouldn't want my kids around under any circumstance.

I don't live in Utah, but my best friend practiced law their for a few years and was an active member and he said he felt like a stranger there and that members could be very cliquish.

[omega0401]

I have lived in a lot of places, never, I said never, has another faith or a non believer done anything like this to me or my family before. Then, I had to explain the actions of those families and tell them (my kids) they did not do anything wrong.

I, too, have not meet Mormons who behave the way you describe. But like any other church there are Christ-like members and not so Christ-like. I hope you will run into a Christ-like Mormon some day soon because they are out there and there are a lot of them. Not perfect by any means but certainly trying.

I hope you won't judge the church on the impolite behavior of a few Mormons. Judge it on it's beliefs. Either Joseph Smith is a prophet or he isn't. He either translated a sacred text into the Book of Mormon as a second witness of Chirist or he didn't. Either Christ church had to be restored upon the earth because of an apostasy or it didn't. Either there is modern day revelation to a modern day prophet or there isn't. Those are the beliefs you should focus on and not on the members.