Non-RM stigma

[bytor2112]

I wish I had served a mission. Not because it was expected, but because I believe that it might have prevented me from becoming inactive. That being said, I have realized that I am on a full time mission....... to live the gospel and be an example to as many as I can. I want my kids to serve, I think it will be a great experience for them. Kids are trained to finish high school, go to college, start a career......in that order. The church includes serve a mission and I think wisely so, because it is Spiritual education.. I think the problem of waiting till you finish your education is obvious......most guys answer another calling......ladies! They end up getting married. Thankfully, Exaltation is available to all, mission or not, but their maybe someone out there waiting for you to knock on their door. Edited July 24, 2008 by bytor2112

[abqfriend]

I am a Roman Catholic-and this section is Learning about the Mormon Church-

-so what is an RM?

Inquiring Minds want to know.

Thanks

-Carol

[FunkyTown]

I think his original question was: Do I think there is a stigma attached to not serving a mission? There wasn't for me, but I joined the church when I was 26 and they weren't accepting missionaries at that time. I would have loved to have gone on a mission and it's one of my big regrets that I wasn't able to.

You're very free to choose to go or not go. However, I would follow the promptings of the spirit. It's possible that, at the moment, you aren't of the right mindset to be the missionary you could be if you waited.

[Truegrits]

I am a Roman Catholic-and this section is Learning about the Mormon Church-

-so what is an RM?

Inquiring Minds want to know.

Thanks

-Carol

Returned Missionary

[MorningStar]

It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. For me, I was afraid of marrying someone who would go inactive because of my dad leaving, and it was really hard on my mom, so I had concerns about marrying a return missionary because I wanted to make sure the Gospel was a huge priority (but my dad went and he says that was to make his parents happy, so that's no guarantee). A guy I dated hadn't gone, but I think it was his overall behavior that turned me off, thinking he might leave the church someday. My friend married a great guy who never went on a mission and he chose to join the military instead. She never had any issues with that. My brother didn't go on his mission until he was 21 and I think he got more out of it because he waited until he was ready.

Anyway, people are nosey. "When are you going to have a baby? When are you going to have another baby? Why aren't you married?" My friend was judged as being unrighteous because she didn't have a baby for 8 years, which she decided was the right decision because of how unstable her marriage was. She didn't want to bring a baby into a family where they were yelling at each other all the time and possibly going to get divorced. People need to respect personal revelation on these issues.

[bytor2112]

I am a Roman Catholic-and this section is Learning about the Mormon Church-

-so what is an RM?

Inquiring Minds want to know.

Thanks

-Carol

RM........ returned Missionary.

[Islander]

It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. For me, I was afraid of marrying someone who would go inactive because of my dad leaving, and it was really hard on my mom, so I had concerns about marrying a return missionary because I wanted to make sure the Gospel was a huge priority (but my dad went and he says that was to make his parents happy, so that's no guarantee). A guy I dated hadn't gone, but I think it was his overall behavior that turned me off, thinking he might leave the church someday. My friend married a great guy who never went on a mission and he chose to join the military instead. She never had any issues with that. My brother didn't go on his mission until he was 21 and I think he got more out of it because he waited until he was ready.

Anyway, people are nosey. "When are you going to have a baby? When are you going to have another baby? Why aren't you married?" My friend was judged as being unrighteous because she didn't have a baby for 8 years, which she decided was the right decision because of how unstable her marriage was. She didn't want to bring a baby into a family where they were yelling at each other all the time and possibly going to get divorced. People need to respect personal revelation on these issues.

True MorningStar:

I agree with you in that some are quite insensitive and nosy that way. But is it part of the cultural milieu of the church. Just like any other set of social/cultural expectations. In most countries away from the West and the US girls are expected to marry young, for example.

You are expected to have children within 2 years or so, to remain close to your family and not move away 2000 miles, girls should not be too skinny or people may think they are sick and too weak to bear children, young men should revere their mothers-in-law for she gave you a beautiful wife (in my case/country for example).

These are "unspoken" tenets of the social group and there is nothing intrinsically wrong with that, I think. If we break away from the norms then WE experience some tension because of the questions. But we can't blame people for having certain expectations.

I am a convert so I am stretching the situation a bit just to make a point/example, but, If I was a young guy, RM, faithful and true to my covenants. And begin to date a young girl, that grew up in the Gospel, propose and marry in the temple. If on my wedding night I find out she has not kept her chastity and did not tell me and kept that issue from me, I have the right to be disappointed. I had certain expectations based on shared values and histories, primarily obedience to the Gospel.

So, yes people sometimes are too nosy and issue value judgments on others based on those cultural expectations. But we should not be too hard on them. They are not being malicious (I hope). They are just being human and LDS in the worst case scenario.:)

[WANDERER]

LOL so what evidence would she have that they were 'true' to their covenants and that they lived up to obedience and expectations? How disappointing to not have that surety LOL. I laugh at that example having experienced 'doubt' when there wasn't any. Cultural expectations do not always honour others.

[Islander]

LOL so what evidence would she have that they were 'true' to their covenants and that they lived up to obedience and expectations? How disappointing to not have that surety LOL. I laugh at that example having experienced 'doubt' when there wasn't any. Cultural expectations do not always honour others.

I agree. I was just pointing to the fact that we should not stress so much when others call attention to our choices that deviate from the norms and cultural expectations.

Edited July 27, 2008 by Islander

[WANDERER]

....

[WANDERER]

Oh ..you were just illustrating a point...goodonya.

On the "I agree" with you assumption...no...you don't.

However, I must admit...I would like it very much if the next time someone has a problem with something you say that you're first two words are I agree.

Edited July 27, 2008 by WANDERER

[VisionOfLehi]

I think he was agreeing with "Cultural expectations do not always honour others"

[Moksha]

I do like to wear colored shirts, and have thought about growing a goatee again...

An individualist! One day you shall lead the sheep. :)

[WANDERER]

VOL I object simply because it's an example that portrays women in the way that it does....and because it was followed by a patronising comment...

I might agree with the basic premise, but I cannot agree with the method used to support it. It undermines the point.

Now if I prefaced my entire post with 'VOL I agree'...would that mean that we did?

[VisionOfLehi]

I have no idea, because, frankly, I didn't understand his original comment.

[Soulsearcher]

i sat in a conversation a few years ago with 4 LDS mothers. They all had daughters in early teens who were starting to notice boys, and all the mothers were starting to set expectations about guys they wanted their girls to end up with. I was part of the conversation but kept quiet for the first bit. Each mother said the first and highest priority for their list was the guy had to be a RM, this was more important than anything else. As they all sat beaming ear to ear ad patting them selves on the backs i let out a rather dismisive laugh. They all kinda got a lil annoyed with me and sarcasticaly asked what i thought was more important.

"The most important thing on my list or the guy who dates my lil girl is that he treats her like she's gold. He respects her and loves her more than life and will do anything and everything in his power to make her happy and never hurt her"

They all went a lil red in the face and i could tell they were embarassed by missing such an obvious thing, and tried to cover that of course that's something a RM would do, so it was assumed in their statmeant. I reminded 2 of them they were divorced from the most selfish hateful abusive men....both RM's. The only one still married and hopefully in love in the room was the woman who didn't marry the RM. Oddly at the end of the conversation their point of view didn't change, but one of the girls was listening in and her and i have talked since, She want's an RM, but not at the cost of what's more important, and i'm proud of her for that.

[RachelleDrew]

I don't think women realize how shallow it makes them seem to only want an RM for a mate. That's like someone saying that they will only marry someone who is a doctor....it's not necessarily a good indication of their character and it makes men feel like crap.

I hope I raise a daughter who has high expectations for a mate, but isn't so stupid as to think that the only important thing about a mate is that he's an RM. I would be very embarrassed if I had a daughter who turned down kind, genuine men for dates just because they didn't fit the social status quo.

[StrawberryFields]

I think being a returned missionary is a title of sorts...

"Meet Trevor Best, he is a return missionary."

Who wouldn't want that?

An then you can even get bumber stickers... Proud Parent of an LDS Missionary.

[Truegrits]

I do wish to be a proud parent of an LDS Missionary. That they choose to give up eighteen months>two years to the sharing of the Gospel is laudable. It does not, however, mean that they are 'better' than those who do not serve...it does not necessarily mean that they will be more spiritual, honorable, etc., than those that, for whatever reason, do not serve a Mission. The worth of a person is dependant on so much more than whether they served a mission, or not. There are no guarantees either way.

[StrawberryFields]

I do wish to be a proud parent of an LDS Missionary. That they choose to give up eighteen months>two years to the sharing of the Gospel is laudable. It does not, however, mean that they are 'better' than those who do not serve...it does not necessarily mean that they will be more spiritual, honorable, etc., than those that, for whatever reason, do not serve a Mission. The worth of a person is dependant on so much more than whether they served a mission, or not. There are no guarantees either way.

I couldn't agree more.:)

[rayhale]

People who don’t go on missions because of medical reasons are also being treated like they aren’t faithful. I think that’s sad. I have an older brother that couldn’t go on a mission because of medical reasons, but it’s obvious that he couldn’t go. I waited for a year to go on my mission because my parents were worried about not being able to afford the $375 per month for me and for 6 months of my mission $ 750 for both me and my younger brother. My bishop told my parents not to worry, someone in the ward would help us out on our missions.

I agree that some people can be insensitive, but like a few posts have said, these people are trying to help you, going on a mission is a modern commandment for young men, it’s optional for young women, they have the option of either getting married or going on a mission, in theory that’s why they don’t go on a mission until 21, so they can go on dates with Returned Missionaries. It’s either that or the other explanation that makes less sense; that there will be an age gap between the 19-year-old male missionaries and the 21-year-old female missionaries.

[RachelleDrew]

Rayhale, you mentioned something that reinforced my plans for my own children.

My husband and I are going to encourage our children to do college, a mission and the military. We would love it if they do all three, but that's not our choice to make for them. But it would be easier to do all three, and it would be at no expense to them.

We have set money back for our children. If they choose to go on a mission, it will be paid for in full by us, no questions asked. We are never going to be very wealthy people due to the nature of our future career plans so we can't really afford to help them out with college. But we could probably do a mission for each of our children. I don't want my kids to have to make the choice of if they should go on a mission or not based on finances. So the deal is if they wish to go on a mission, it is paid for. We already have that account started for them.

As for college, if they did a stint in the military then that would be paid for too. But we simply cannot do that for them. Looks like loan city for them otherwise.

[rayhale]

The Church strongly encourages that the family of the missionaries to pay the full $375 per month, but if they can’t, then talk to the Bishop about your financial situation, and he will help you out. This is the main reason the Church changed the monthly amounts from whatever amount you needed to live on in your area, to a set price per month. For example for some if you went to Japan, you had to spend upwards of $1,600 a month, or if you went to a third world area you might only have needed to spend $50 a month. A set price per month is fairer for everyone.

[NateHowe]

There are some appropriate reasons for a young man not to serve a full-time mission. Those reasons are between the Lord, the individual, and his ecclesiastical leaders. To ostracize or demean a man because he did not serve a full-time mission is inappropriate.

However, missionary service is one factor that should be taken into account when choosing a spouse. That is not to say it is a blanket prequalification - it is one of many criteria to consider carefully.

I can say that missionary service changed my entire outlook on God, the role of the Church, and interpersonal relationships. It taught me how to be more spiritually independent. It allowed me to develop leadership skills not available in other settings. I know that my marriage would not be as strong if I had not served a mission, even if I had married the same girl.

Now, does that mean that my peers who did not serve are inferior? No. Some of them have gone on to successful careers and Temple marriages. But many of them have traveled more difficult roads on the way to that goal, and many have not made it.

On the flipside, there are some who go on missions for no other reason than to have the "RM" status. In the words of scripture, they have their reward. Faithful missionary service will strengthen the man who serves with real intent.

So if I had a daughter, my counsel would be this: Look for a man who has invested wisely in his future eternal marriage. Past performance often does indicate future results. A mission is one of the best investments toward that goal. If a young man has had the benefit of growing up in the Church, but has neglected to follow the Prophet's counsel to serve a mission, he ought to have a good reason. If he did serve, how is his life now? Is he living up to the standards he was commissioned to teach? Examine the whole person, and take the mission experience in context with the rest of the whole.

There is no set formula for finding the right partner, but certain indicators show the pattern of one's life. It is appropriate for missionary service to be on that list.

[StrawberryFields]

It's kind of interesting what serving a mission does to the entire family.

Have you ever sat back and taken notes to see how the is family set apart depending on their children serving missions?

Edited August 4, 2008 by StrawberryFields