Non-RM stigma

[guitarwizard]

Admittedly, i did not read all five pages, but concerning what the OP said: I am under this banner right now.

I have a very strong faith and testimony in the Lord Jesus Christ and His Church, and that this is it, but a mission is not a possibility for me. One reason being that i am a recent convert of not even a year, the other reasons being mostly financial with a few family issues (including the words "disowned" thrown around a few times).

I am currently seriously dating a woman in the church and we have seriously talked about marriage, as in we are engaged without the official announcement. Unofficially engaged i guess you could say.

It is really hard for me to withstand what i keep hearing from her family though: You can go on a mission! You will be so happy! It is what God wants you to do! You are supposed to!

It is if they really believe that i don't want to go. I would love to go, but my calling is here, especially among my family and friends. And that is something that I know, i am called to serve as a member missionary. I just don't know why her family can't accept this and worry about the consequences it might have on our relationship.

[Guest bren1975]

I always encouraged my daughter to marry an RM. Reasons:

It gives a good indication that the Lord comes first in his life. (Important, since one is choosing the father of one's future children.)

A mission brings blessings to him and his family, present and future.

The example it sets for future sons.

Another reason I taught my daughter this, is that girls hold a lot of power over boys. If the girls are all encouraging them to go--they'll go if at all possible. My boyfriend left me to go on a mission, and we were married 6 months after his return. What would we have told our sons years later, had he chosen not to go?

If you are not able to go for reasons beyond your control, then it's unfortunate that people are making you feel pressured. A simple answer should be enough for them. My oldest son did not go until he was 22, because of personal problems. Those extra years of added maturity were a great asset when he did finally go. But those were also years of many prayers, fasting, and seeking solace at the temple.

We all have to listen to the Spirit for our own guidance. For a decision as important as delaying or omitting a full-time mission, (if it were me), I'd be REALLY sure of what God wanted me to do. I wouldn't want to make a mistake because it would affect others besides me--meaning my future family.

[Vort]

a mission is not a possibility for me. One reason being that i am a recent convert of not even a year, the other reasons being mostly financial with a few family issues (including the words "disowned" thrown around a few times)...I would love to go, but my calling is here, especially among my family and friends.

Consider your sig:

"How can you say the door cannot be opened until your knuckles are bloody, till your head is bruised, till your muscles are sore? It can be done." - Spencer W. Kimball

You do what you feel led to do. But I suspect that if you decide to serve a mission, the way will open for you to do so.

[Islander]

Consider your sig:

You do what you feel led to do. But I suspect that if you decide to serve a mission, the way will open for you to do so.

Amen to that!!

[Maureen]

I feel that missions for young men are so traditional that it's very hard for the older generations (escpecially my generation and older) to change their way of thinking. It will probably take new converts and a different attitude with the younger generation to change the typical tradition now to an authentic choice for many young men - as opposed to what's expected.

[Guest bren1975]

I know a guy who told his fiancee that he had changed his mind about getting married, and needed to serve a mission. So he did, in Russia. She waited and when he got home, they got married.

They now have a baby boy. When that son turns 19, his dad will be able to say to him, "Go. Do as I did."

[bmy-]

I feel you. I'm a recent convert.. and the pressure has shifted from "join the church" to "go on a mission" and telling them to bug off doesn't help. I feel I can do MUCH more good here than elsewhere. On top of that I feel no 'call to serve'.

I'm halfway done with school already -- I don't feel the need to throw that away. I'm glad 'they' feel called to 'serve' but I think their holier than thou attitude is counter-productive. I'd rather learn in the real world than on a mission. I think that's what it comes down to for me.

If there wasn't a lack of respect for males who choose not to go I would have no problem. Perhaps it's just a local problem?

Interestingly enough.. most of the 'non-rm' stigma comes from females. Who of course neglect their oppurtunity to go on a mission so they can 'multiply and replenish the earth' while draining mom and dads bank accounts.

Brandon

YMMV

[Guest bren1975]

I feel you. I'm a recent convert.. and the pressure has shifted from "join the church" to "go on a mission" and telling them to bug off doesn't help. I feel I can do MUCH more good here than elsewhere. On top of that I feel no 'call to serve'.

I'm halfway done with school already -- I don't feel the need to throw that away. I'm glad 'they' feel called to 'serve' but I think their holier than thou attitude is counter-productive. I'd rather learn in the real world than on a mission. I think that's what it comes down to for me.

If there wasn't a lack of respect for males who choose not to go I would have no problem. Perhaps it's just a local problem?

Interestingly enough.. most of the 'non-rm' stigma comes from females. Who of course neglect their oppurtunity to go on a mission so they can 'multiply and replenish the earth' while draining mom and dads bank accounts.

Brandon

YMMV

People are encouraging you to serve a mission because they are thinking of you. They know what a mission does to and for the missionary. As a new convert your testimony is young and fragile, and a mission would strengthen it and better prepare you for life afterwards. The blessings of serving a mission would be lifelong. There is simply no replacement for what you would learn if you go. These people know this and want this for you. They want this for your future wife and children. They know the value.

Girls aren't responsible to serve missions. They are welcome to go if they wish, but the responsibility lies upon the men. LDS men are all called and it's their personal responsibility to become worthy and ready. The pressure you feel from the girls is because they want their children's dad to have served a mission. They want their sons to have that example. They want those blessings for their family.

[NateHowe]

I feel that missions for young men are so traditional that it's very hard for the older generations (escpecially my generation and older) to change their way of thinking. It will probably take new converts and a different attitude with the younger generation to change the typical tradition now to an authentic choice for many young men - as opposed to what's expected.

"Raising the Bar" in the early part of this decade did not rescind the prophetic command for every worthy and able young man to serve a mission. In fact, it was clearly restated. Again, that does not mean we should ostracize those who have not yet made the choice, but the choice should be encouraged.

[bmy-]

People are encouraging you to serve a mission because they are thinking of you. They know what a mission does to and for the missionary. As a new convert your testimony is young and fragile, and a mission would strengthen it and better prepare you for life afterwards. The blessings of serving a mission would be lifelong. There is simply no replacement for what you would learn if you go. These people know this and want this for you. They want this for your future wife and children. They know the value.

Girls aren't responsible to serve missions. They are welcome to go if they wish, but the responsibility lies upon the men. LDS men are all called and it's their personal responsibility to become worthy and ready. The pressure you feel from the girls is because they want their children's dad to have served a mission. They want their sons to have that example. They want those blessings for their family.

I understand they want what they think is 'best' for me. But do they want it because it's the 'standard' or because I would benefit from it? I've seen to many girls stick up their noses at guys who chose not to go on a mission to believe it's for my own benefit. For their benefit seems more like it.

For instance.. my girlfriends sister values a mission over a highschool education. She's not the only one who has told me that. I might be alone.. but I think that's childish.

Granted there are a few gems here and there but they are the exceptions. [My gf is one.. man i'm lucky!]

I'm a firm believer that the blessings come from them being more mature when they start their life. Whether it's marriage or college.. a 21 year old will do far better compared average 19 year old.

There's no replacement for knowledge period. The missionaries have no replacement for the things i'm learning just like I won't be able to replicate their experience.

"Raising the Bar" in the early part of this decade did not rescind the prophetic command for every worthy and able young man to serve a mission. In fact, it was clearly restated. Again, that does not mean we should ostracize those who have not yet made the choice, but the choice should be encouraged.

Thank you for recognizing that. While there are no 'official' penalties there is definitely a negative stigma that goes with the job.

[Moksha]

I think being a returned missionary is a title of sorts...

In Utah business correspondence, it would no doubt help to use the title Strawberry Fields, RM.

[Maureen]

...Girls aren't responsible to serve missions. They are welcome to go if they wish, but the responsibility lies upon the men. LDS men are all called and it's their personal responsibility to become worthy and ready. The pressure you feel from the girls is because they want their children's dad to have served a mission. They want their sons to have that example. They want those blessings for their family.

Girls are not required to go but still some do go, with no added pressure or expectation. Why couldn't the same be offered to the young men? Give them the choice without the guilt from making the decision to not go.

M.

[Vort]

Girls are not required to go but still some do go, with no added pressure or expectation. Why couldn't the same be offered to the young men? Give them the choice without the guilt from making the decision to not go.

Because full-time missionary service is a Priesthood duty.

[BenRaines]

Vision of Lehi,

I read through all the postings to your thread. It seems that most are "Do your own thing". It is not a decision to be made by your Ward Mission Leader, your Home Teacher or anyone else. It is your decision.

Remember the process of coming to a decision and then taking it to The Lord in prayer. You decide what you are going to do and then ask The Lord if it is right. If it is you will have a burning feeling of confirmation. If it is not a stupor of thought or feeling of being lost. If you get the later then rethink your decision and take it again to the Lord and ask again. He will not weary of your asking but he will not answer the should I do this or should I do that question. That is not the way it works.

Serving a mission can be a great blessing if you have a testimony and are ready to serve. If you feel that you can't serve and there are valid reasons why someone can't that are not morals related then be the best member missionary there is. I have known many great men in the church who did not serve missions.

Ben Raines

[miztrniceguy]

I've previously posted here about my experiences when single with girls on dating chat sites asking if i was a RM before even asking my name, where i lived, or anything else. early on, i would answer no, only to have no more questions asked of me, as if that was a singular disqualification. Eventually i stopped answering private messages that asked that question first. Not 1 asked if i had served an HONORABLE mission.As if there was no distinction. Missionaries that come home early are still RMs, too.Amazed me that so few even asked me WHY i didn't? If they had asked further, they would have learned that i became inactive at 16, and having returned to church at 32 was no longer at the NORMAL missionary serving age. The only one who ever asked if i had a desire to serve on later in life is my wife. We do desire to serve a mission after we retire.

Of course there are blessings for serving a mission. But it is not for everyone, nor is it always a good experience. It is a PERSONAL choice.

Do I wish I had served? Sometimes. Am I a different person than I would be if I had served? Absolutely. Am I a better or worse person because of it? Not 1 person on this earth can answer that question.

[bmy-]

Because full-time missionary service is a Priesthood duty.

I'm on a slightly different 'mission'. I'm getting prepared for life. I'm halfway done with school at 20. When the RMs near my age get back i'll have a year left to their 4 years.

It's just my opinion.. but I think my blessings out weigh their own. We both work hard. We both spread the gospel. But i'm closer to being ready to start a family.

[Islander]

I understand they want what they think is 'best' for me. But do they want it because it's the 'standard' or because I would benefit from it? I've seen to many girls stick up their noses at guys who chose not to go on a mission to believe it's for my own benefit. For their benefit seems more like it.

For instance.. my girlfriends sister values a mission over a highschool education. She's not the only one who has told me that. I might be alone.. but I think that's childish.

Granted there are a few gems here and there but they are the exceptions. [My gf is one.. man i'm lucky!]

I'm a firm believer that the blessings come from them being more mature when they start their life. Whether it's marriage or college.. a 21 year old will do far better compared average 19 year old.

There's no replacement for knowledge period. The missionaries have no replacement for the things i'm learning just like I won't be able to replicate their experience.

Thank you for recognizing that. While there are no 'official' penalties there is definitely a negative stigma that goes with the job.

I am also a convert but I joined too late to have served a mission. I suspect that you already made up your mind that you do not desire to serve a mission and, of course, that is your prerogative. But I join the statement above that ALL worthy males should heed the call of the Priesthood of God to serve their Heavenly Father in spreading the Gospel and bring others to His kingdom. As you are a new convert is likely that you do not understand the doctrine and significance of serving a mission. ALL of the apostles and prophets of this dispensations have served missions and most returned to school to have very successful carriers and professional lives. You would not be throwing away anything but gaining a testimony, spiritual strength, experience and faith that you now lack and that otherwise will never gain. In a decade as a member I have been able to see that it makes a universe of difference between those that serve a mission and those that don't, even among siblings in the same family.

There are practical and spiritual implications to going on a mission. Today's missionaries are tomorrow's leaders. There is no doubt that you will be a better man, a better friend, a better husband and father, a better priesthood holder, a better leader and a much more powerful servant of your Heavenly Father should you desire and serve a mission. There is absolutely nothing wrong with me as a father of a young girl expecting my future son-in-law to show that he has the faith, the desire, determination and drive it takes to walk the streets of the world in the service of our Savior 10 hours a day searching for those waiting to hear the Gospel. Past behavior and attitude is a fair indicator of future performance.The prophets expect it and so should I.

I would never publicly shun a young man that choses not to go on a mission. But he has made it abundantly clear where his priorities lay and people have a right to assess those issues and make inferences. That it makes you uncomfortable because you feel is unfair, I guess that comes with the choices you make.

Edited August 7, 2008 by Islander

[Over43]

My father in law got married at 19 instead of going on a mission. He has been in numerous bishoprics, worked in the Temple, raised wonderful children (mostly, my wife being the most wonderful...). You do what you need to do, serve where and when you can in whatever capacity is available.

O43

[Islander]

I'm on a slightly different 'mission'. I'm getting prepared for life. I'm halfway done with school at 20. When the RMs near my age get back i'll have a year left to their 4 years.

It's just my opinion.. but I think my blessings out weigh their own. We both work hard. We both spread the gospel. But i'm closer to being ready to start a family.

Yeah, if you are married then your opportunity for full time mission at this time is passed. Move on then.

[Bookmeister]

Things you have to have to serve in any of the "important" callings (bishop, counselors, stake leadership, relief society (for women, of course)):

Served a mission

married in the temple (not married first and then sealed later, you have to do it all at once)

have more than two children

have a really good professional job where your wife doesn't have to work outside the home

Things that will prevent you from holding any of those callings:

no mission

no children (for whatever reason)

being single, or

being divorced

being married to a non-member

[checkerboy]

Things you have to have to serve in any of the "important" callings (bishop, counselors, stake leadership, relief society (for women, of course)):

Served a mission

married in the temple (not married first and then sealed later, you have to do it all at once)

have more than two children

have a really good professional job where your wife doesn't have to work outside the home

Things that will prevent you from holding any of those callings:

no mission

no children (for whatever reason)

being single, or

being divorced

being married to a non-member

I am gonna call hogwash on this.

[guitarwizard]

I am gonna call hogwash on this.

seconded. I am pretty sure my bishop joined the church after he and his wife were married. That takes out the "married in the temple" and "served a mission" requirements. But he is my bishop.

Also, the second counselor to my bishop in my college ward never went on a mission and was only sealed in the temple. Not the bishop, but still a respectable position.

[Jenamarie]

Pres. Monson served in the military during WW2, and didn't serve a mission. I guess they made a mistake when they called him.

[Guest bren1975]

Please read:

Ezra Taft Benson: "The Lord needs every young man between the ages of nineteen and twenty-six worthy, prepared, and excited about serving in the mission field."

Thomas S. Monson: "Youth of the Church, the world is in need of your help. There are feet to steady, hands to grasp, minds to encourage, hearts to inspire, and souls to save. The harvest truly is great. Let there be no mistake about it; the missionary opportunity of a lifetime is yours. The blessings of eternity await you. Yours is the privilege to be, not spectators, but participants on the stage of service to others."

Richard G. Scott:

"Now may I speak from my heart of what an honorable full-time mission has meant to me personally. I grew up in a home with very good parents, but my father was not a member and my mother was less active. After my mission that changed. They became strong members and served devotedly in the temple—he a sealer, she an ordinance worker. But as a young man, like many of you today, I had no way to judge personally the importance of a mission. I fell in love with an exceptional young woman. At a critical point in our courtship, she made it very clear that she would only be married in the temple to a returned missionary. Duly motivated, I served a mission in Uruguay.

It was not easy. The Lord gave me many challenges that became stepping-stones to personal growth. There I gained my testimony that God the Father and His Beloved Son, Jesus Christ, did in fact visit Joseph Smith to begin a restoration of truth, priesthood authority, and the true Church on earth. I gained a witness that Joseph Smith is a singular prophet. I learned essential doctrines. I discovered what it meant to be led by the Spirit. Many a night I got up as my companion slept to pour my heart out to the Lord for guidance and direction. I pled for the ability to express effectively in Spanish my testimony and the truth I was learning to a people I had come to love. Those prayers were abundantly answered. At the same time, my future eternal companion, Jeanene, was being molded to become an exceptional wife and mother by her own mission.

Most important, all that I now hold dear in life began to mature in the mission field. Had I not been encouraged to be a missionary, I would not have the eternal companion or precious family I dearly love. I am confident that I would not have had the exceptional professional opportunities that stretched my every capacity. I am certain that I would not have received the sacred callings with opportunities to serve for which I will be eternally grateful. My life has been richly blessed beyond measure because I served a mission.

Now can you understand why I am so anxious to motivate every one of you young men to be a worthy missionary?

If you are a young man wondering whether you ought to fulfill a full-time mission, don’t approach that vital decision with your own wisdom alone. Seek the counsel of your parents, your bishop, or stake president. In your prayers ask to have the will of the Lord made known to you. I know that a mission will provide extraordinary blessings for you now and throughout your life. I urge you not to pray to know whether you should go; rather, ask the Lord to guide you in whatever may be necessary to become a worthy, empowered full-time missionary. You will never regret serving a mission, but you most probably will regret not serving if that is your choice."

LDS.org - Liahona Article - Now Is the Time to Serve a Mission!

[Vort]

Things you have to have to serve in any of the "important" callings (bishop, counselors, stake leadership, relief society (for women, of course)):

Served a mission

married in the temple (not married first and then sealed later, you have to do it all at once)

have more than two children

have a really good professional job where your wife doesn't have to work outside the home

Things that will prevent you from holding any of those callings:

no mission

no children (for whatever reason)

being single, or

being divorced

being married to a non-member

In my own ward:

• Neither of our last two Relief Society presidents served a mission.
• Our previous elder's quorum president never served a mission.
• Neither did the one before him. This one also had been divorced, with three children from his first marriage.
• The one before him didn't have any children and had only been a member for a few years.
• Our current RS president was divorced and has three children from her first marriage.

On the other hand, I personally:

• Served an honorable full-time mission
• Married in the temple
• Have a bunch of kids
• Have not divorced
• Am the sole wage-earner in my home, as has been the case for almost two decades
• Work as a professional (not especially highly paid, but we make enough to get by)
• Have always payed a full tithe since childhood
• Have always held a temple recommend since adolescence
• Have always been active at Church
• Have never declined a calling of any sort at any time
• Am significantly more polite in person than on a discussion list (just wanted to clarify that :) )

By your logic, I should be the stake president! So after a lifetime (I'm on the far side of my mid-40s) of faithful service in the Church, what mighty positions have I held and do I now hold?

• I am an elder, not a high priest
• I have served as a counselor in a few quorum presidencies, but never as president
• I am currently an assistant adviser in the young men's program

Positions in the Church are not "earned". God calls whom he wants to serve in a position, for whatever reasons he has. True, they should meet minimum qualifications of worthiness and ability; but this idea that only people that have some certain laundry list of "accomplishments" are considered for "leadership advancement" is simply false, on many levels.