Word Of Wisdom

[aikenfan]

this past weekend the word of wisdom was mentioned a few times at church and the bishop mentioned it again when we had a meeting this afternoon.... i have a few things that im curious about if anybody cares to help me.....

[Maureen]

Originally posted by aikenfan@Aug 6 2004, 07:28 PM

this past weekend the word of wisdom was mentioned a few times at church and the bishop mentioned it again when we had a meeting this afternoon.... i have a few things that im curious about if anybody cares to help me.....

Greetings aikenfan, we'd love to help but you're going to have to write those curious things down. We're a very talented bunch of people, but our telepathic powers are the pits. :)

M.

[aikenfan]

Greetings aikenfan, we'd love to help but you're going to have to write those curious things down. We're a very talented bunch of people, but our telepathic powers are the pits. 

lol. that i knew... just wanted to see if anybody was out there 1st! as you can see i am new to this board and dont know how quick everybody is to respond...lol

[Lindy]

Originally posted by aikenfan@Aug 6 2004, 08:27 PM

Greetings aikenfan, we'd love to help but you're going to have to write those curious things down. We're a very talented bunch of people, but our telepathic powers are the pits. 

lol. that i knew... just wanted to see if anybody was out there 1st! as you can see i am new to this board and dont know how quick everybody is to respond...lol

Depending on the topic......you may be surprised!

Welcome to the board!

[aikenfan]

thanks... well as i said, the WOW came up a lot in the past weeks discussions...i am struglling a bit with it.... i really just want to get some other opinions on it...i am a convert, born and raised catholic, but never felt better or more like i belong than i do when i joined this church..obviously religions differ from one to the other... can you honestly say that all those that belong to this church are perfect when it comes to following the WOW....what happens to those like me who are struggling... and just in case you are wondering, its the hot drinks part...the rest was pretty easy and understandable...so i am asking for advice, opinions... thanks!

[Lindy]

aikenfan;

I can only say that struggling with the WOW does not make you a bad person, it doesn't keep you from knowing the truth you found or the peace you have within yourself. Being a convert and coming into the church from the outside is a lot harder than others realize who have been in the church all their lives. A convert gives up so much more, and sometimes it is a struggle to turn away from what you have known (and loved) most of your life. But it can be done.

It just depends on how you feel about it. Have you really prayed over this thing that anguishes you? If you know in your heart that Christ want's you to give something up that is near and dear to you....... you will find a way to do it.

The word of wisdom also says to eat meat sparingly....but do you see this happening? If it makes you feel any better.....I'm sure that there are a lot of lds men who won't give up all the meat they want....in fact I know this is a downfall for a lot of them :) Actually I don't think that is fair of me to generalize... I think that many will be good for a long time eating the tiny portions......then let themselves go at a get-to-gether BBQ or a dinner out once in awhile. Am I right guys? Ladies?

It took me a long time to wean myself off of coffee (I drank 6 or more cups a day) when I joined the church. Do I miss it? Heck yes!!!! Do I crave it? Oh YES-Sometimes I really do ... Was it worth the fuss? Absolutely! You see, I have been closer to God and His Son for some of the "things" I have given up in my life. And that makes me a better me than I used to be.

Good Luck,

Lindy :)

[Jenda]

For myself, over the years, I have just "naturally" fallen into following much of the WoW because that is how I feel the best. I can say that it is not something I ever consciously decided. I have never smoked because I don't like the smell and 3 very close family members died of lung cancer, and I don't like the taste of alcohol, so that took care of the drinking part. As I have gotten older, I just have lost my taste for meat, and now I eat meat only twice a week (in general.)

About 3 years ago, I decided to go on a spiritual journey. At about the same time, I was having a lot of stomach problems and decided to stop drinking coffee and regular tea till the stomachaches went away. About 3 weeks later, I realized the stomachaches had been long gone and I still wasn't drinking coffee, so I just quit. About the same time, I started craving foods made of whole grains and switched from white bread to whole grain breads. Again, neither of these were conscious choices where I decided to follow the WoW. But as the months passed, following the WoW, even unconsciously, my spiritual journey really took off, and it was a great time in my life.

Since then, over the last year or so, I have gone back to some coffee and am eating some white breads, and feel that I have a slightly lower spiritual level in my life and am trying to make the decision to go back to full observance, but now that it is a conscious decision, it is much harder.

Good luck with it.

[Maureen]

Originally posted by aikenfan@Aug 7 2004, 09:37 AM

thanks... well as i said, the WOW came up a lot in the past weeks discussions...i am struglling a bit with it.... i really just want to get some other opinions on it...i am a convert, born and raised catholic, but never felt better or more like i belong than i do when i joined this church..obviously religions differ from one to the other... can you honestly say that all those that belong to this church are perfect when it comes to following the WOW....what happens to those like me who are struggling... and just in case you are wondering, its the hot drinks part...the rest was pretty easy and understandable...so i am asking for advice, opinions... thanks!

Hi aikenfan - When you say hot drinks I will assume you mean tea and coffee. I am non-LDS so this advice comes from my perspective. Over the years it has been discovered that coffee and tea have health benefits. Coffee has benefits that can prevent diabetes and colon cancer. So in my opinion you should weigh the benefits of not drinking these beverages at all or drinking them in moderation. With giving up certain drinks people tend to replace them with something else - like pop. My LDS relatives consume vast quantities of pop - caffeinated and non. I believe pop is unhealthy, especially in large amounts - and most people drink too much pop. Pop is high in sugar and even diet pop with artificial sweeteners in large amounts is not healthy, you're at risk to develop diabetes, bone density problems, teeth problems, etc.

So if you do decide to give up your tea and coffee please don't replace those beverages with pop, choose milk, juice or even water instead - much healthier.

Good luck with your choice.

M.

[Snow]

Originally posted by Maureen@Aug 7 2004, 11:30 AM

Coffee has benefits that can prevent diabetes and colon cancer. So in my opinion you should weigh the benefits of not drinking these beverages at all or drinking them in moderation.

So Maureen,

Your advising a person risks decrease health by refusing to drink coffee? Do you really believe that?

[Jason]

i am a convert, born and raised catholic, but never felt better or more like i belong than i do when i joined this church

How fascinating. Im just the opposite. I found the LDS church wanting, and have found a better life in the Roman Catholic Church.

[aikenfan]

thanks for all the replies.... yes i am talking about coffee.... as was stated, beinga convert is hard...ok, im 40, and i was born and raised catholic so coffee was a normal part of my everyday life... so normal...it was a shock to know that im not supposed to have it...i did quit when i was informed about WOW, and didnt drink any coffee for a year.... i went home for christmas and it was so natural to have a cup...i do not drink it everyday like i used to but i do occaisionally.... am i such a horrible person? unworthy? thats what i worry about...

[Faerie]

aiken..you're human..that's what..we all have our struggles and pitfalls...

[Guest bat]

Originally posted by aikenfan@Aug 7 2004, 04:14 PM

thanks for all the replies.... yes i am talking about coffee.... as was stated, beinga convert is hard...ok, im 40, and i was born and raised catholic so coffee was a normal part of my everyday life... so normal...it was a shock to know that im not supposed to have it...i did quit when i was informed about WOW, and didnt drink any coffee for a year.... i went home for christmas and it was so natural to have a cup...i do not drink it everyday like i used to but i do occaisionally.... am i such a horrible person? unworthy? thats what i worry about...

You should consult your scriptures to see if G-d has issued a commandment that prohibits coffee.

Mormons (at least the ones that I've come across on the internet) maintain that the ONLY official source of doctrine comes from the scriptures. Anything taught that isn't in the scriptures isn't doctrine, nor is it binding on Latter Day Saints.

Have you noticed that that Proclamation of the Family, or whatever they are calling that, hasn't been canonized as doctrine? That's so the church can change it's mind if it needs to, and apologists can just say "The church never taught that. It's not in the scriptures."

It's the same thing with the WoW. The interpretation of D&C 89 as today's WoW is just that; an interpretation. It isn't scriputre, and it isn't binding.

Besides, it's nobody elses business if you drink coffee. I drink coffee. I love the stuff.

Have you ever noticed that the WoW does not forbid hot cocoa or hot cider? No? Wouldn't that be against the WoW as well? You'd think so.

Regardless, D&C 89 is not a commandment from god. The WoW is not doctrine.

But that's just my opinion.

[Lindy]

aikenfan~

Horrible, unworthy? I don't think so....

I wouldn't sweat it....a cup now and then?

If it keeps you from achieving a goal in your life...then you will have something to reconsider...but horrible? NO! God is not that evil to judge you on a trivial thing like a cup of coffee. But that is MY opinion if anyone wants to tear it apart

The only other thing I can tell you is that when I hear others talk about the "mormons" it's that

1-They don't drink alcohol

2-They don't smoke

3-They don't drink coffee

and the don't.... drugs, sex, swear, shop on Sunday....etc. things fall in behind those big three.

Not to say that "mormons" DON"T do those things.........

That's just what I hear when the topic comes up

[Maureen]

Originally posted by Snow+Aug 7 2004, 02:02 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Snow @ Aug 7 2004, 02:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Maureen@Aug 7 2004, 11:30 AM

Coffee has benefits that can prevent diabetes and colon cancer. So in my opinion you should weigh the benefits of not drinking these beverages at all or drinking them in moderation.

So Maureen,

Your advising a person risks decrease health by refusing to drink coffee? Do you really believe that?

No Snow - I'm saying that coffee does have health benefits and pop does not; so if aikenfan chooses to drop the coffee I am hoping he/she does not replace a beneficial drink with pop, which is not. There are better choices out there which I listed.

M.

[inactivetx]

Hi! I was wondering about the temple recommend questions (never been personally) and the bishop/stake pres asks you if you keep the WoW, are they asking if you have partaken of ANY coffee, tea, tabaco, etc during the past year? I mean is a glass of bubbly on New Years Eve enough to be banned from the Temple? Just curious.

[Ray]

I really enjoyed coffee before I became a member of the Church, and I would still enjoy the taste of it now if I were to drink it, but I don't drink it anymore because I enjoy the benefits of obeying the Lord's counsel even more.

As a substitute for coffee, I recommend Postum. It has a similar taste, it's a whole lot better for us, and it doesn't violate the Lord's counsel.

Btw, I once advocated avoidance of any "hot" drink, and even hot clear soups that I like to drink, but I believe avoidance of coffee and tea is all that the Lord requires of us. Some people believe that decaffeinated green tea or herbal tea is acceptable, but I don't drink those either.

[Guest bat]

What is postum?

[aikenfan]

i have tried postum and would rather not drink anything...lol.. thanks again everybody for your comments on this i appreciate it... its just so confusing after reading some stuff on the net about it... but i do appreciate the personal thoughts....

[Guest bat]

Originally posted by aikenfan@Aug 8 2004, 05:53 PM

i have tried postum and would rather not drink anything...lol.. thanks again everybody for your comments on this i appreciate it... its just so confusing after reading some stuff on the net about it... but i do appreciate the personal thoughts....

If you really don't want to drink coffee, try beer instead. --- actually told Joseph Smith that it's okay to drink beer.

D&C 89

14 All agrain• is ordained for the use of man and of beasts, to be the staff of life, not only for man but for the beasts of the field, and the fowls of heaven, and all wild animals that run or creep on the earth;

17 Nevertheless, wheat for man, and corn for the ox, and oats for the horse, and rye for the fowls and for swine, and for all beasts of the field, and barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain.

See? God says to drink beer. And maybe wait until your coffee warm, and not hot. That would appear to be okay too.

But keep in mind, god didn't command it anyways:

2 To be sent greeting; not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the aword• of wisdom, showing forth the order and bwill• of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days—

[Guest Traci]

Originally posted by aikenfan@Aug 8 2004, 06:53 PM

i have tried postum and would rather not drink anything...lol.. thanks again everybody for your comments on this i appreciate it... its just so confusing after reading some stuff on the net about it... but i do appreciate the personal thoughts....

I enjoy Postum, but only if it's freshly ground, with a teaspoon of sugar and a generous splash of Bailey's Irish Cream. I've never had a problem getting a TR.

[shanstress70]

In the book, Mormon Enigma: Emma Hale Smith, I read that Joseph Smith broke the Word of wisdom many times. He even allowed Porter Rockwell to operate a bar from him and Emma's house.

This book also talked about the origin of the WoW. Supposedly, Emma was tired of the men who met in their house so often spitting their tobacco in the floor, and smoking up the house. She complained to Joseph that he needed to put a stop to it. He did, by making it a 'commandment', but at the same time he thought he should take something away from Emma and the women. Since they frequently drank coffee and tea, he decided to forbid that. She still drank it though, and served it to her guests. Go sista!

Although I'm no longer Mormon, I had a problem with this when I was still a member. Basically, something pulled out of thin air is now turned into 'doctrine', and you can't be temple-worthy unless you abstain. WTF?

By the way, this book is very informative, and is very well referenced, including many references to the church's own records. It is not an 'anti' book. I know many LDS people who have read it. If you haven't read it, I recommend you do.

[Spencer]

Originally posted by bat+Aug 8 2004, 09:08 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (bat @ Aug 8 2004, 09:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--aikenfan@Aug 8 2004, 05:53 PM

i have tried postum and would rather not drink anything...lol.. thanks again everybody for your comments on this i appreciate it... its just so confusing after reading some stuff on the net about it... but i do appreciate the personal thoughts....

If you really don't want to drink coffee, try beer instead. --- actually told Joseph Smith that it's okay to drink beer.

D&C 89

14 All agrain• is ordained for the use of man and of beasts, to be the staff of life, not only for man but for the beasts of the field, and the fowls of heaven, and all wild animals that run or creep on the earth;

17 Nevertheless, wheat for man, and corn for the ox, and oats for the horse, and rye for the fowls and for swine, and for all beasts of the field, and barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain.

See? God says to drink beer. And maybe wait until your coffee warm, and not hot. That would appear to be okay too.

But keep in mind, god didn't command it anyways:

2 To be sent greeting; not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the aword• of wisdom, showing forth the order and bwill• of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days—

You are a cunning illusionist.

Luckily we have the Old Testament as well so that we do not mis-interpet this as you apparently have.

Isaiah 5 11-12

11 ¶ Woe unto them that rise up early in the morning, that they may follow strong drink; that continue until night, till awine inflame them!

12 And the harp, and the aviol•, the btabret•, and pipe, and wine, are in their feasts: but they cregard not the dwork• of the LORD, neither consider the operation of his hands.

Isaiah 28 7-8

7 ¶ But athey• also have berred• through cwine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the dprophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment.

8 For all tables are full of vomit and afilthiness, so that there is no place clean.

Just a few scriptures that speak against consuming alcohol

[Spencer]

Originally posted by shanstress70@Aug 9 2004, 08:34 AM

In the book, Mormon Enigma: Emma Hale Smith, I read that Joseph Smith broke the Word of wisdom many times. He even allowed Porter Rockwell to operate a bar from him and Emma's house.

This book also talked about the origin of the WoW. Supposedly, Emma was tired of the men who met in their house so often spitting their tobacco in the floor, and smoking up the house. She complained to Joseph that he needed to put a stop to it. He did, by making it a 'commandment', but at the same time he thought he should take something away from Emma and the women. Since they frequently drank coffee and tea, he decided to forbid that. She still drank it though, and served it to her guests. Go sista!

Although I'm no longer Mormon, I had a problem with this when I was still a member. Basically, something pulled out of thin air is now turned into 'doctrine', and you can't be temple-worthy unless you abstain. WTF?

By the way, this book is very informative, and is very well referenced, including many references to the church's own records. It is not an 'anti' book. I know many LDS people who have read it. If you haven't read it, I recommend you do.

First he is human, hes allowed to error.

Second this book does not bare the stamp "The Church Of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints"

It may not be an anti book, but that does not make it a reliable source. I find it a little hard to believe he just made up this rule for his wife. I mean come on! It is plainly obvious that alcohol alters your mind in a negative way, so obviously it would be advised not to consume it! I dont understand why that is such a tough concept to get.

(Not speaking to you Shan just people in general who may not agree with this)

Spencer

[Maureen]

Originally posted by Spencer@Aug 9 2004, 05:54 AM

Second this book does not bare the stamp "The Church Of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints"

It may not be an anti book, but that does not make it a reliable source. I find it a little hard to believe he just made up this rule for his wife. I mean come on! It is plainly obvious that alcohol alters your mind in a negative way, so obviously it would be advised not to consume it! I dont understand why that is such a tough concept to get.

Spencer

A book does not have to have the LDS' church seal of appeal to be a reliable book. It won a few awards, it must have some integrity to it.

Mormon Enigma - Emma Hale Smith

Linda King Newell and Valeen Tippetts Avery

Winner of the Evans Biography Award, the Mormon History Association Best Book Award, and the John Whitmer Association (RLDS) Best Book Award

The Temperance movement was alive and well during JS's time. It's not like he invented it.

M.