Moksha Posted July 29, 2008 Report Share Posted July 29, 2008 I think many murders in the scriptures have been erroneously attributed to God. Men do evil and when it is attributed to God, it is just bad mouthing him. To me it reaches a point of rejecting the image of a supreme being as petty, jealous and murderous. I think Jesus set the record straight when he described God's love and mercy. He wanted us to follow his way, to be meek and peacemakers. He wanted us to turn the other cheek, to forgive, the show mercy and not to pick up the stone - for if we do, we will be judged for it. God comprises the most noble qualities I can imagine. These inherent qualities lead me to His worship and praise. The question of whether God would ask me to ever kill for Him is absurd. That is not part of the message of Jesus. I could go on, but I would like to hear your thoughts... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilered Posted July 29, 2008 Report Share Posted July 29, 2008 Moksha . I think you make a excellent point. The key word in your post is "many." as oppossed to indicating none have been. There are scriptures that do indicate that murder was the method chosen at times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DigitalShadow Posted July 29, 2008 Report Share Posted July 29, 2008 (edited) I apologize if my thread offended you. I never meant to 'bad mouth' God in any way, or imply that God (should He exist) would tell people to unjustly murder others. I asked the question because I wanted to know how far people are willing to take their faith, not because I thought it was a realistic scenario. To me, the question is relevant because we condemn people halfway around the world who are killing in the name of God and have faith that it is the 'just' course of action. From the responses to my question, I am reassured that most people would not take their faith to such an extreme, but I still think that faith is a dangerous concept. "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." -Voltaire Edited July 29, 2008 by DigitalShadow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john doe Posted July 29, 2008 Report Share Posted July 29, 2008 I think that many people are confusing murder with ending someone else's life. Neither is to be taken lightly, but they are not necessarily the same thing. Sometimes the difference is small, but there is a difference. If you wish to talk about the difference between Nephi and homicide bombers, we can do that. But since DS does not believe that faith is of value, I don't think that any understanding will be made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DigitalShadow Posted July 29, 2008 Report Share Posted July 29, 2008 I think that many people are confusing murder with ending someone else's life. Neither is to be taken lightly, but they are not necessarily the same thing. Sometimes the difference is small, but there is a difference. If you wish to talk about the difference between Nephi and homicide bombers, we can do that. But since DS does not believe that faith is of value, I don't think that any understanding will be made.I could say that cars are dangerous machines. It is true, but I still drive to work every day. When I say that faith is dangerous, that does not mean I believe it holds no value. Nephi had angels appear in front of him which other people saw and acknowledged as well, I highly doubt many suicide bombers had such profound concrete examples to back their faith. I do see the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted July 29, 2008 Report Share Posted July 29, 2008 I apologize if my thread offended you. I never meant to 'bad mouth' God in any way, or imply that God (should He exist) would tell people to unjustly murder others. I asked the question because I wanted to know how far people are willing to take their faith, not because I thought it was a realistic scenario. To me, the question is relevant because we condemn people halfway around the world who are killing in the name of God and have faith that it is the 'just' course of action. From the responses to my question, I am reassured that most people would not take their faith to such an extreme, but I still think that faith is a dangerous concept."Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."-VoltaireIt is obvious that across the world people worship different kinds of gods. The old testament is somewhat difficult to grasp because God seem so exacting and demanding, almost ruthless but that is only because we tend to look at the text with 21st century eyes. The BoM illustrates better some of those reasons as when Nephi is commanded to kill Laban. The OT is not that explicit. Beyond that, the reasons why some today kill in the name of God is because they believe themselves justified in doing so according to their own interpretation of their scriptures. Most however, are violent of their own right because of social traditions and not necessarily religion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moksha Posted July 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 I apologize if my thread offended you. Nothing to apologize for! Your thread was very thought provoking. I decided it was best if I branched off this response. We all have different conceptions of our Creator. Some of us tend to emphasize the Christian aspects more while others tend to combine an Old Testament/Book of Mormon view. There are other viewpoints as well.Whatever our conception, it is great to believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RachelleDrew Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 I apologize if my thread offended you. I never meant to 'bad mouth' God in any way, or imply that God (should He exist) would tell people to unjustly murder others. I asked the question because I wanted to know how far people are willing to take their faith, not because I thought it was a realistic scenario. To me, the question is relevant because we condemn people halfway around the world who are killing in the name of God and have faith that it is the 'just' course of action. From the responses to my question, I am reassured that most people would not take their faith to such an extreme, but I still think that faith is a dangerous concept."Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."-VoltaireI don't believe you have anything to apologize for. Your post was a simple hypothetical question, and it's pretty obvious that you didn't post it with the intention of belittling the lord. I still don't understand what was so offensive about your post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarginOfError Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 To me it reaches a point of rejecting the image of a supreme being as petty, jealous and murderous. I think Jesus set the record straight when he described God's love and mercy.Food for thought...why shouldn't an omnipotent God feel all of those emotions. We often see in or experience that a person's ability to love and be merciful is only matched by his ability to despise and and be vengeful. Besides, you're goign to see the wrath of God on a scale you haven't imagined before all is said and done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WANDERER Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 Is it wrath and vengefulness or just a consequence of operating outside what God actually wants for us? While murder is agreed on by Christians as a wrong thing; people diverge on their perspective of God's view on death by legal judgement; divine judgement and war and what 'murder' is defined as. I fall pretty much into the extreme side of the pacifist category....with the New Testament defining hate as the equivalent of murder. Not that I'm anywhere near living up to that standard. But that's just my belief and understanding of things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moksha Posted July 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2008 Is it wrath and vengefulness or just a consequence of operating outside what God actually wants for us? While murder is agreed on by Christians as a wrong thing; people diverge on their perspective of God's view on death by legal judgment; divine judgment and war and what 'murder' is defined as. I fall pretty much into the extreme side of the pacifist category....with the New Testament defining hate as the equivalent of murder. Not that I'm anywhere near living up to that standard. But that's just my belief and understanding of things. No one really turns there cheek as many times as Jesus said, but it appears you are giving it your best. There is so much contradictory material in the Bible, that even war mongers find some support. However on balance, Jesus' message was one of love and peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moksha Posted July 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2008 After trying to read the Old Testament, the only way I'd follow your God is if the Bible turned out to be full of slander and lies about him, because the OT depicts him as a petty, childish, and amoral deity along the lines of Trelane from that episode of Star Trek TOS. If he's real and I ever meet him, I'd prefer to give him the benefit of the doubt. I'll ask him for his side of the story, cause I don't believe the Bible tells it. The New Testament offers a different view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted July 31, 2008 Report Share Posted July 31, 2008 I think many murders in the scriptures have been erroneously attributed to God.God cannot murder, any more than God can commit adultery.The question of whether God would ask me to ever kill for Him is absurd. That is not part of the message of Jesus.In a practical sense, I agree. The idea is absurd.In a principled sense, the question is perfectly good. Nephi was commanded to kill, and it was accounted righteous for him to obey. Abraham was commanded to kill his own son, and was praised as righteous for attempting to do so. The Nephites and, by extension, we were and are commanded to defend selves and families, by force if necessary.I could go on, but I would like to hear your thoughts...And now you have them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted July 31, 2008 Report Share Posted July 31, 2008 We all have different conceptions of our Creator. Some of us tend to emphasize the Christian aspects more while others tend to combine an Old Testament/Book of Mormon view.There is no difference between the two. The "Old Testament/Book of Mormon" view of God is the "Christian" view of God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted July 31, 2008 Report Share Posted July 31, 2008 There are scriptures that do indicate that murder was the method chosen at times.By definition, murder was and is never approved of by God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemidakota Posted July 31, 2008 Report Share Posted July 31, 2008 It is obvious that across the world people worship different kinds of gods. The old testament is somewhat difficult to grasp because God seem so exacting and demanding, almost ruthless but that is only because we tend to look at the text with 21st century eyes. The BoM illustrates better some of those reasons as when Nephi is commanded to kill Laban. The OT is not that explicit. Beyond that, the reasons why some today kill in the name of God is because they believe themselves justified in doing so according to their own interpretation of their scriptures. Most however, are violent of their own right because of social traditions and not necessarily religion.When HE requires their removal from this mortal life, they are beyond repentance stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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