When you prayed to receive a witness

[mike_uk]

Im not looking to flame or interfere with your experiences but I am interested to learn what you felt when you took Moroni's challenge to read and pray about the Book of Mormon, how it came to you and what you experienced etc?

If you wouldnt mind sharing that we me It would be very much appreciated.

[HiJolly]

Im not looking to flame or interfere with your experiences but I am interested to learn what you felt when you took Moroni's challenge to read and pray about the Book of Mormon, how it came to you and what you experienced etc?

If you wouldnt mind sharing that we me It would be very much appreciated.

I think I've expressed this in previous posts, but I never got what I was looking for, when I prayed for this witness. I joined the Church at 8 years old, I'm now in my 40's, and I have prayed hundreds of times for a 'big', unambiguous or definite witness. Never got it.

That being said, though, I have had countless 'small' witnesses. There is no doubt in my mind that it is a sacred text that encompasses the Gospel of Christ, and leads all who study it & follow it to God.

I have receive lots of 'big' witnesses, just not one on the Book of Mormon. I have no idea why, but it doesn't really bother me, due to the kindnesses of God in so many things.

HiJolly

[Misshalfway]

I think I've expressed this in previous posts, but I never got what I was looking for, when I prayed for this witness. I joined the Church at 8 years old, I'm now in my 40's, and I have prayed hundreds of times for a 'big', unambiguous or definite witness. Never got it.

That being said, though, I have had countless 'small' witnesses. There is no doubt in my mind that it is a sacred text that encompasses the Gospel of Christ, and leads all who study it & follow it to God.

I have receive lots of 'big' witnesses, just not one on the Book of Mormon. I have no idea why, but it doesn't really bother me, due to the kindnesses of God in so many things.

HiJolly

Thru small and simple things, great things come to pass!

I have experienced both experiences. I prayed about Joseph and received a literal and physical feeling. But I will tell you, it is the 'little' witnesses that sustain me. They add up to a great and broad foundation. When the arrows of doubt have come to me, it is that foundation that has sustained me.

This I think is what is meant, in part, by the parable of the Virgins. You can't get such foundations in a moment, this one or the last! You can't get it any other way but than by walking the walk day after day.

[NeuroTypical]

Here you go - I actually wrote it down a few years ago.

So, what can I say - it happened.

It happened at work, where I was a candy maker, with an arm covered with chocolate. (If you've ever been to a fancy hotel, or taken a fancy cruise, and there's a chocolate mint on your pillow - that's what I used to make by hand.)

The details? Here is where I need to be a bit vague, in order to avoid embarassing stuff. I was working away quietly, thinking about reality, wondering if I'd ever know what it was, and thinking about an unresolved situation in my life. I was at a crossroads, only tangentially related to my quest to discover the truth about the Book of Mormon. As I thought about this crossroads, trying to discern what to make out of the facts before me, I thought something along the lines of "Well, this pattern indicates that things are moving in the right direction... "

And it happened.

Words can't really explain it - they can only approximate it.

It was unmistakable, not a warm fuzzy, not an emotional reaction.

I had my answer. It was "yes".

It was a strong, internal sensation. Not a feeling - I wasn't happy or sad. The best word is "confirmation" . And what was it confirming? Many things. It was confirming that yes, I had just said something true - the pattern I was looking at was indeed moving in the right direction. It confirmed that there WAS a right direction. It confirmed that this notion of reality that I had looked at - this bizarre tale of prophets and plates and revelations and restorations, had the added benefit of being true.

A few side details:

* The first thing that dawned on me was, "My gosh, this is the Holy Ghost speaking with me!" The second thought that came a few minutes later was "My gosh, I've felt this before!" In one or two of the most stressful times of my life, I had felt that sensation before. I had written off the experience at the time, but realization flooded me - the Lord had stood by me, even while I was inactive.

* Other people tell me their conversion stories, and they are often different. My Bishop, as a young man, was watching a sunset, and said a brief prayer "thank you, God", and heard the words as clear as day "You'll be all right - I'll always take care of you". My experience was different. Another guy from my ward had been desiring to feel the Love of Christ - and felt it unexpectedly when he stood up to shake hands with a brother from another ward. They stood there with clasped hands, with tears flowing down both their faces. My experience was different - there was not a lot of emotion (although I pretty soon felt exhilleration, as it sank in what was happening). My wife's grandfather was on a bar stool 40 years ago, having left the church, and was almost knocked to the floor by the words "Wayne, why hast thou forsaken me?" I heard no words. The energy and the impact was internal to me, not external like it was to him.

* I have since felt this impression, this confirmation, quite often. As I returned to church in full force, keeping my baptismal covenant, the Holy Ghost has been, at points in my life, my constant companion.

* I have since been able to test this "answer", this influence of the spirit, this burning in the bosom, fairly scientifically. I've been able, once, to "switch" it on and off several times, by asking the Lord in prayer "should I do this?.... should I not do this?... should I do this?"

LM

[Vanhin]

When I was preparing to serve a mission, I had a desire to find out for myself about the truthfulness of our message. I had been a member my whole life, and I believed everything to be true, but I had never actually asked God to tell me personally. Like HiJolly I had had spritiual experiences in my life, even some miraculous experiences, and I counted them as witnesses of truth. Those experiences formed the basis for my fledgeling testimony. But, I want to ask, and receive.

So, one night I knelt at my bedside and prayed. I asked God to let me know for myself if the Book of Mormon was true. I was already studying it everyday, and had pondered the message in my mind and in my heart. All that was left was to ask. So, I did. After the prayer I waited a while, listening, but I neither heard nor felt anything different. I then went to sleep.

The next morning I woke up and began my daily Book of Mormon study, and the moment I opened the pages and started to read, I was overwhelmed with the Spirit. I was reminded of all the times when I had felt the Spirit before, and I remember thinking to myself "You know it is true. You already know." It wasn't an emotional feeling, though, I became emotional and wept, but it was an intelligent feeling. I felt a desire to serve God and to become more like Jesus Christ. I cannot explain the way I felt any better than that, but I know just as surely as I know that I am typing this now, that the Book of Mormon is true.

I'm so grateful for that knowledge. I feel that because of that personal witness, when I testify to others about the Book of Mormon, that the power of the Spirit is present.

Sincerely,

Vanhin

[bytor2112]

Mike,

I think that the answer to Moroni's challenge come 's at different times, not necessarily when we are expecting it or wishing for it. The Spirit testifies to me through feelings and impressions. The "feelings" are a tangible presence of something very Holy. It makes you feel a peace that is beyond description, a joy that transcends any I have ever known and a comfort that is so familiar and so loving that it can only be from God. It comes as a witness to my prayer about the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon, not necessarily at the time I pray, but at other times, like when I attend a baptism, when I sing a sacred hymn, when I share my testimony or when I have unexpectedly done something nice or charitable and often when I read from the Book of Mormon and the Bible. The answer came as to whether or not the church is true when I confessed my sins to my Bishop and it comforted me and let me know that I was doing the right thing. I have had many Sacred, spiritual witnesses at various times, but one thing I have found to be true...... it seems to be more frequent and powerful when I am REALLY seeking the Lord and living the way he has asked. The Lord knows when we are sincere and when we are only acting well rehearsed routines. I think some of us aren't ready to receive and live the truth or appreciate it fully, so Heavenly Father allows us to to learn, sometimes by letting us walk down dead end roads and dangerous paths so that we can fully appreciate what it is all about and how wonderful the Atonement truly is to each of us and how transcendent and unmatchless his love is for all of his children. Don't venture to far, the path back is often much more difficult and painful than the journey down the wrong road ever was.........

Edited August 1, 2008 by bytor2112

[rameumptom]

When I decided to pray about the Book of Mormon, I fasted for several days. I went into the woods alone to pray. After praying several hours, I suddenly found myself on the top of a flaming mountain, when angels began peeking down from the clouds and spritzing perfumes and incense around.

Actually, I've never had an experience quite that big, but thought it would be fun to lead y'all along for a moment.

I had been looking for a few years in my teens for the Lord's Church. Funny thing is, I wasn't looking for the LDS Church when I came across it. A friend of mine invited me to play basketball in his youth church league, and I accepted. That Thursday evening, I dressed out. Before I could play, I was called in to see the bishop. He explained Church requirements for playing ball -- short haircut, attend Sunday services. Something odd happened that I didn't fully understand at that time. There was this aura in the room, so thick it could be cut with a knife. I immediately was moved upon to accept the bishop's requirements, even though my Dad had bugged me for years to cut my shoulder-length hair, and my weekly jungle football game at the park with high school and college students was on Sundays. I suddenly was able to give up both hair and Sunday football, with no regrets.

It would be much later, as I learned about the Holy Spirit that I would realize this was the power that worked within me that evening. The next day, my hair was cut, and I became a true convert without having read or known anything. Joseph Smith? Book of Mormon? I'd heard of these, but they didn't mean much to me at all. All I knew was the witness I had received. Later, I recognized it in the writings of Alma 32, where Alma says it would expand the mind and soul, burn in the bosom, and become delicious. It was all of those to me, and still is.

In reading the Book of Mormon, I didn't have to pray, because I already knew it was true. But as I ponder the words in it, I continue feeling the Spirit, and my mind expanded my new thoughts from above. Amazing how one can still learn from that book after having read it about 75 times!

Since then, I have received answers to prayers. I've knelt down on many occasions alone and with others to gain a witness of these things, and felt the Spirit witness them, time and again.

It has burned within my heart, soul and mind so much over 33 years, that I do not think a burning bush on a high mountain could increase my faith more than it is now.

[Guest bren1975]

I'm LDS from birth. I've always had a testimony of the Gospel, always loved the Church, but always struggled with the Book of Mormon. I never doubted it's truth, just never enjoyed reading it. Everytime I tried to read, my mind wandered after the 3rd word. I'd have to reread and reread again. Soooo hard to focus on the message.

This year I'm teaching it in Sunday School. For the first time in my life, the Book of Mormon has come alive. As I study the verses, I'm seeing a depth and meaning that is almost beyond words. There simply is no way anyone could have made it up. I'm learning things about the Gospel that I've never considered or even thought about before. The best part is that each new concept fits in like a puzzle piece and simply makes sense!

I don't know if reading the Book of Mormon will ever become easy for me. But I know it's true. That belief came bit by bit by bit over many years.

[abeChristianson]

I'm LDS from birth. I've always had a testimony of the Gospel, always loved the Church, but always struggled with the Book of Mormon. I never doubted it's truth, just never enjoyed reading it. Everytime I tried to read, my mind wandered after the 3rd word. I'd have to reread and reread again. Soooo hard to focus on the message.

This year I'm teaching it in Sunday School. For the first time in my life, the Book of Mormon has come alive. As I study the verses, I'm seeing a depth and meaning that is almost beyond words. There simply is no way anyone could have made it up. I'm learning things about the Gospel that I've never considered or even thought about before. The best part is that each new concept fits in like a puzzle piece and simply makes sense!

I don't know if reading the Book of Mormon will ever become easy for me. But I know it's true. That belief came bit by bit by bit over many years.

I am glad that I am not the only one who has difficulty reading the book of Mormon. My mind wonders a lot too. I know that it is true because of the spirit that filled me when I read Second Nephi Chapters 27-30. It hit me hard like a brick. I prayed for an answer as to the truth of the BOM and that is what popped out ate me. LOL.

[NateHowe]

For me, the testimony of the Book of Mormon came as a feeling of deep understanding. Certain principles of the Book suddenly made complete sense to my mind and my soul. This was something much greater than a merely intellectual manifestation. However, I cannot easily explain it more than to say "I know."

[OtterPop]

When I prayed for a witness of the Book of Mormon, nothing happened. Absolutely nothing. Not that day, not ever in the 10 years I continued to be LDS after that. It broke my heart.

[OtterPop]

changed --

I appreciate your kind thoughts. I found my answers outside the LDS church -- and I'm the better for it.

[bmy-]

Mine was a little out there.. I can't say it was God.. i'm not a huge fan of miracles. It was coincidence enough.. it shocked me and I realized I was 'feeling the spirit'.

I read the challenge.. flipped a coin 5 times. Heads = false. I hit 5 tails in a row. The 6th toss I dropped the coin and couldn't find it. I really 'felt the spirit' which is horribly rare for me.

Needless to say I got baptized .. 6 months later.

[OtterPop]

And you, too!

[Elphaba]

I went longer than 10 years, I went 2/3's of my life with nothing. Keep waiting - it will happen.

So, just how long does one have to wait before she gets the witness? How much anguish, unbearable sorrow and a contrite spirit does one have to experience before he gets the confirmation others have received from the first prayer?

Elphaba

[mike_uk]

I agree with Elphaba 100%. There is no way a kind loving God who wants all his childeren to accept the gospel would be made a to wait 10+ years for an answer. Many will just turn around and walk away.

Again, no kind loving Heavenly Father who wants the whole world to come back to him would make it so hard to do so. If you accept the challenge Moroni sets with real intent then that answer should come shortly after, not 10+ years down the road. Thats my opinion on the matter.

Mike

Edited August 6, 2008 by mike_uk

[WANDERER]

On the fifth month...and I think praying to receive a witness, even if you don't get an answer, can bless your life to some measure in other ways...at least in my experience.

[FunkyTown]

I'm a convert and I had an experience. Most of the time, I joke and make light of things, but this is something that I won't. There's a long story to my conversion but the short version is: Something happened in my life to make me look at religion. I had always felt a connection to God. Always. I had prayed and felt Him near, but I had no idea what religion had the truth. I decided to study it out and find out.

I studied Buddhism and Brahmanism, Catholicism and Judaism. I read the Bhagavad Gita, studied the Torah with the help of a book by NYU professor of Judaism Richard Elliott Friedman. I read C.S. Lewis and G.K. Chesterton. For two years, I was desperate for an answer. I realized I believed in Christianity, but there were so many questions that I thought I'd never get answered. I felt tempest tossed, like a little rowboat in a hurricane, lost and adrift and looking for answers to questions that(As far as I knew) could not be answered.

Finally, I was at work discussing religion and politics(Something I never should have) and someone asked if I wanted the missionaries to come over. I decided I would. Couldn't hurt, right?

When they first came in, I had questions. I didn't know anything about the church at that point. I was going to hit them with the hardest questions I could so that I would understand. "All right - I do have questions: If God and Jesus are the same person, why does Jesus pray and say 'Why dost thou forsake me?' - How can a man forsake himself? Also, why did he say in Gethsemane, 'Would that thou wouldst take this cup from me. Nevertheless, thy will and not mine be done.' Why not say 'My will and not Mine be done'?"

Also, in the Torah, it talks about Enoch 'Being no more'. Traditional Jewish thought on this is that he never tasted death as this particular use of words only appears twice in the old testament. Why, in the middle of the most holy works of the Jewish faith, is there only one sentence about this? 'By the way, he was so good he went to Heaven never having tasted death.' You would think that this would be something important.'

The missionary who was teaching me laughed and said, "Well, we have answers, but I think we're getting ahead of ourselves."

But still, I didn't trust that. It -felt- right. The answers were there. All the things I'd wondered about seemed to be what they were talking about the very first meeting, but I still didn't trust my experience. My family, my friends all thought it was stupid. They still do. My mother accused me of joining a cult. I knelt down in prayer and said, "God? This feels right. But I know I'm not the smartest person where it comes to religion. If I was, I would have known the answers to these things. If it's true, you have to tell me in no uncertain terms."

I had the impression to do something so I flipped open the bible to a random page that happened to be Matthew 7:16. I've never looked back and I've never and never will deny what I know is true. I've been weak and made mistakes, but God gave me an answer and I can't look back.

[HiJolly]

Matthew 7:

7 ¶ Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?

10 Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?

11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

13 ¶ Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

15 ¶ Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

HiJolly

[rameumptom]

So, just how long does one have to wait before she gets the witness? How much anguish, unbearable sorrow and a contrite spirit does one have to experience before he gets the confirmation others have received from the first prayer?

Elphaba

An excellent question. I wish I had the penultimate answer.

I have pondered this question for many years now. Perhaps the best thoughts on it that I've received are the following:

First, among the gifts of the Spirit are these two: one is to believe in Christ by the power of the Spirit. The second is to believe on the words of others.

Perhaps for some of us, we are to rely on others' testimonies and witnesses for a time, until our own come along.

Second, in Alma 32, as I've pondered it, I've discerned that Alma is having a discussion between faith based upon complete knowledge, and faith based upon partial or even minimal knowledge. We are encouraged to desire to believe, and allow that desire to carry us forward until we begin to gain a witness.

Then, Ether 12 teaches us of hope. This is to envision the things we do not have a testimony, witness or knowledge of at this time. Hope becomes an anchor to us until the surety is given to us via the Holy Ghost.

Each of us is given gifts, but a strong witness of our own may not be the gift one receives at this time. Occasionally, there is a time of test, to see if we can believe on the witnesses of others and hope in things that are unseen.

I know there are questions I wish I had answers to, which could easily leave me frustrated and angry at God, if I let it. Instead, I have to focus on doing what I know is right, and trust that the things which are out of my hands will be managed by God in his own time. I have to trust that things will work out, and focus on how the testimonies of others, as well as the ones I have received, will affect me in my daily decisions.

Elphaba, God has given you wonderful gifts, such as the gift of thought and of thinking. You have studied the histories of many Saints and found them inspiring. Perhaps your current belief begins there? If such witnesses can cause people to go against their own nature, perhaps there is something to desire and consider?

I was in a seminar on Mormon history at IUPUI in April. Jan Shipps ended her discussion by telling a couple stories that show that many of the Saints did what they did, not because they were brave or wanted to be in the place they were, but because they knew the Prophet had commanded them.

Jan said she had a story from a lady who is now a non-member (anyone you know?) whose grandmother was sent to the Ogden area (IIRC). Every morning, she would step out of her house and curse the mountains. A friend asked her why she didn't just leave, and the woman responded, "I can't, this is my home."

Another man who came from Europe (Scotland, I believe), continually complained about how awful Utah was and how they were given a wonderful painted picture of what Utah would be like. Disappointed in what he found when he arrived, he stayed, because that is where the "Saints are."

Perhaps all of our testimonies, or our searching for a testimony, are instilled with such a struggle. There is a bitter-sweet experience in having a testimony. Joy in Christ, but sorrow in sin. Hope in celestial realms, but dealing with telestial struggles now. Inspired by the Spirit, but it ebbs and flows like the tide. High mountains always have deep valleys nearby, and one must cross the one and then do a lot of climbing to get to the awesome vista.

Perhaps the beginnings of your testimony is your great joy in experiencing the witnesses and experiences of pioneers? Who knows just when and where that spark will come from that leads us to greater testimony and witness?

[bmy-]

5 times! That is pretty improbable :) It would be nice to get a clear answer like that for a few things in life… Where did you get this coin? I want one too! J/K I try not to be superstitious, but sometimes it is hard...

Haha, which is why I try not to chalk it up to a 'miracle'. I'm hardly superstitious at all. It was coincidence enough for me.

It was more so the "how I felt" than the actual coin tosses.

I'll sell you that quarter for $10.

[NeuroTypical]

I read the challenge.. flipped a coin 5 times. Heads = false. I hit 5 tails in a row. The 6th toss I dropped the coin and couldn't find it. I really 'felt the spirit' which is horribly rare for me.

Cool story. I wouldn't exactly recommend it to others, but it seemed to work for you.

[lindsayjane]

Throughout my early years reading the Book of Mormon I had countless experiences where the passage I was reading would catch in my mind and heart. I would feel this expanding feeling in my chest and a rush of emotion and usually tears would come to my eyes. At the same time I would feel that expanding feeling in my mind (literally like a physical sensation) and a flood of knowledge would sharpen my understanding of life and God and the universe. In my teens I was challenged to follow Moroni's direction and actually pray about it, so I did. I didn't feel anything like what I felt at times when I was actually reading it, I just got this thought in my mind, "You already know it's true." And I remember closing the prayer with a grin and saying, "Yeah, I know. I know it's true. I was just humoring my teacher. Thanks, though."

[funkymonkey]

Hi Mike.

I've been watching this thread and can totally relate with some of the feelings and frustrations you're having. I have felt like I was left alone and almost abandoned at times when I thought I needed the Lord most. Just this past month I have learned a lot about faith and God's intentions...

I remember at the age of 6 going to church with my neighbor and the teacher talking about how to pray.

Very shortly after church my parents were fighting...not really yelling but they often would get really violent and when they were done, my dad would come find one of us kids to finish off his aggression. So we would all go to our rooms and lock our doors and hide under our beds and would try not to cry and be just completely silent...to not leave any possibility to drawing unwanted attention.

OK OK, so the point I'm getting at is... I remembered that lesson at church and I closed my eyes and folded my little arms trying to be as quiet as possible, and I asked God to please make it stop, to make it ok. Immediately I felt this warmth wrap around me, it felt exactly like warm arms wrapping around me; I experienced a peace that I have never felt, and the noise of my parents screaming and throwing things completely faded to where I couldn't even hear it anymore...and for the first time in my life, I felt completely safe...just wrapped up in that warmth.

Now as a grown-up (well, technically anyway ) and being jaded by the complexities of life...I spent many many years just hashing out the "knowledge" stuff and wanting FACTS in the scriptures and actions of church leaders...The spirit was completely silent to me all those years, and looking back I think it's because I was just filled with so much contention and wanting an answer in "my way" (books), and not truly seeking for the "Lord's way".

But then I tried a totally new approach and I worked and worked towards trying to listen trough my heart instead of my mind.

I removed the complexities and confusion and stopped asking for "proof" and seriously just simplified my spirituality. I eliminated all that confusing crap that doesn't apply to my individual spirituality and got back to the basics; come to him as a little child...and be humble and willing to trust in him, instead of challenge him.

Then I went to the Lord in humble prayer, and the spirit came again in strength to say "Here I am."

The Lord speaks to us as individuals in matters of the heart, not the mind.

Does it come every time I pray? No. What would be the point to life if God just handed everything to us precisely when we wanted it? We wouldn't really learn a thing, other than to be completely weak and dependent. Just like we train our kids, the Lord stands back and lets us struggle because he wants us to grow and be independent and strong.

But the spirit most definitely comes when the Lord wants me to learn something...just felt it last night. The rest of the growth is up to me...that's why he gave me the trials I have...to struggle and challenge myself, and grow to have a strength I can't gain any other way.

As a kid, growing up is hard to do. But the spirit "growing up" is also hard!

I think we're all going to be "saved"...LDS or non. The only difference between LDS and other faiths is that we have been given the unique challenge to individually find and truly understand faith and the influence of the Holy Ghost, in this life. Everyone will be given this challenge, we just happen to have this challenge here on the earth. Nobody said it would be easy.

Sorry so long. The approach to finding spirituality is so different for each of us. Hopefully this long post can give you another approach.

Edited August 7, 2008 by funkymonkey

[Elphaba]

Mine was a little out there.. I can't say it was God.. i'm not a huge fan of miracles. It was coincidence enough.. it shocked me and I realized I was 'feeling the spirit'.

I read the challenge.. flipped a coin 5 times. Heads = false. I hit 5 tails in a row. The 6th toss I dropped the coin and couldn't find it. I really 'felt the spirit' which is horribly rare for me.

Needless to say I got baptized .. 6 months later.

This is just a clarification.

The chances of you hitting tails five times in a row is 1/32. That is not improbable at all.

I know that wasn't your point, as you meant it happened after you read the challenge.

However, IMO, it is a stretch to connect the two, given the probabity of 1/32.

Elphaba