Mormon Times: All Dogs Go to Heaven?

[Hemidakota]

Full article: Mormon Times - 'All Dogs Go to Heaven' along with other animals, BYU professor says

Edited August 22, 2008 by Hemidakota

[Gwen]

i don't believe all animals go to the celestial kingdom.

[NeuroTypical]

If all dogs go to the celestial kingdom, that means all mosquitoes and spiders go there too. And lemme tell ya, there's a lot more of them than dogs. It better be a big place, or we'll be up to our eyeballs in bugs and bacteria.

LM

[Moksha]

Should we practice full immersion when we give Rover a bath?

[Truegrits]

-- The short answer to the question, "Do animals go to heaven?" is "yes, and only to the Celestial Kingdom," a Brigham Young University professor said

If I had entertained the notion of settling for a lesser Kingdom, this would definitely give me the incentive to strive for the Celestial Kingdom.

[Gwen]

i just disagree with the primes that animals can't sin. if they all go to the celestial kingdom then they are all of that quality. i don't believe it. i've seen things that suggest to me otherwise. i adore animals, but they aren't ALL good.

[Truegrits]

The only "BAD" dogs I have known, were made that way by humans. Through abuse...training...neglect...

I have yet to experience a "naturally" bad dog. There are people who think it "fun" to make dogs aggressive. They starve them to make them mean...but I do believe they will be held accountable.

[Gwen]

The only "BAD" dogs I have known, were made that way by humans. Through abuse...training...neglect...

I have yet to experience a "naturally" bad dog. There are people who think it "fun" to make dogs aggressive. They starve them to make them mean...but I do believe they will be held accountable.

i agree that is usually the case or some kind of mental defect. however, i have seen occasions where it's nothing more than the animal has issues beyond anything explainable other than just plain choice......maybe i'm totally wrong as to what i saw or why it happened, i figure the lord will forgive me for that assumption if needs be later.

i also agree that ppl that do things like this will be held accountable for it as well as the results of the actions (ie a dog made mean that kills a kid the owner may as well have killed the kid)

i do believe animals have agency and make choices beyond biological instinct.

[Bookmeister]

I guess I have no problem with the idea that a dog who loves me that much would enter the celestial kingdom. Besides which, how could there be a heaven without dogs? Or saxophones?

[DigitalShadow]

The only "BAD" dogs I have known, were made that way by humans. Through abuse...training...neglect...

I have yet to experience a "naturally" bad dog. There are people who think it "fun" to make dogs aggressive. They starve them to make them mean...but I do believe they will be held accountable.

The only "BAD" humans I have known were made that way in a similar fashion. If we are all responsible for our own actions regardless of how we are raised, wouldn't dogs be held to a similar standard?

[Hemidakota]

Something to remember about glorified animals within the presence of GOD:

Rev. 4: 9 - And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever,

D&C 77: 3 - Q. Are the four beasts limited to individual beasts, or do they represent classes or aorders?

A. They are limited to four individual beasts, which were shown to John, to represent the glory of the classes of beings in their destined order or sphere of creation, in the enjoyment of their eternal efelicity.

Notes

------

1. The second question asked by the Prophet is: "What are we to understand by the four beasts, spoken of in the same verse?" (1).

Answer: "They are figurative expressions, used by the Revelator John, in describing heaven, the paradise of God, the happiness of man, and of beasts, and of creeping things, and of the fowls of the air; that which is spiritual being in the likeness of that which is temporal; and that which is temporal in the likeness of that which is spiritual; the spirit of man in the likeness of his person, as also the spirit of the beast, and every other creature which God has created."

There are many in the world who have accepted a theory to the effect that man has descended from lower forms of lie; that animals do not have spirits, and that the "ancestors" of man did not have spirits. According to this theory it was not until the evolutionary development of the creature had reached the point where the Lord could put into it a spirit, that the creature could be called a human being, or man. These people teach that the first human being, having just evolved from some lower form, was also a very low type of savage and from this man has developed the highly organized man of today. Those who believe this doctrine and teach that there is a spirit in man postulate the doctrine that the Lord placed the spirit in this man just as soon as he was sufficiently developed to be human. The Lord has taught us that Adam was the first man on the earth; and that he was a very highly intelligent being, even Michael the Arch-angel, who stands next to Jesus Christ in the holding of authority on this earth. He was entitled to come to earth to stand at the head of the human family because of his intelligence and faithfulness in the spirit existence. Moreover, from this revelation (Sec. 77) we discover that every creature has a spirit, and that it existed in the spirit before it was on the earth; the spirit of every creature is in the form of its temporal, or mortal, body. Since this is true, and all forms of life partook of the effects of Adam's fall, therefore they are entitled to the resurrection and shall live again. "And not one hair, neither mote, shall be lost for it is the workmanship of mine hand," said the Lord. (D. & C. 29:25.) Likewise the earth, which is a living body, must die "in like manner" as to all other mortal things, and then receive the resurrection. (Isa. 51:6.) The fact that the spirit of every animal, every fish, every fowl of the air, is in the likeness of its body, and that also it was created in the spirit in the beginning, is a contradiction of these unscientific theories which man has inflicted upon a fallen world.

The third question is: "Are the four beasts limited to individual beasts, or do they represent classes or orders?"

Answer: "They are limited to four individual beasts, which were shown to John, to represent the glory of the classes of beings in their destined order or sphere of creation, in the enjoyment of their eternal felicity."

We are to understand that there will be beasts of various kinds, after the resurrection, in each of the kingdoms, telestial, terrestrial and celestial. It would be a very strange thing for any of the kingdoms to be devoid of animal and plant life. These kingdoms will be very beautiful in their immortal state. Even the telestial will surpass the comprehension of mortal man. They are the creations of the Almighty and therefore they will be perfect in their own sphere, for the Lord creates no imperfections and it is his purpose, according to the divine plan, to make all of his creatures as happy as it is possible for them to be under the conditions of their immortal states.

2. Question four is: "What are we to understand by the eyes and wings, which the beasts had?"

Answer: "Their eyes are a representation of light and knowledge that is, they are full of knowledge; and their wings are a representation of power, to move, to act, etc."

These beasts here represented are of course symbolical; so likewise is the description of their eyes and wings. The Lord has promised those who obtain the exaltation that they shall possess great wisdom, and knowledge and power shall be given unto them. The righteous in the kingdom of God, shall be joint-heirs with Jesus Christ as sons and daughters of God, and the fulness of his kingdom will be given to them. We also learn from this revelation and the word of the Lord in other revelations that in the eternities the animals and all living creatures shall be given knowledge, and enjoy happiness, each in its own sphere, in "their eternal felicity." These creatures will not then be the dumb creatures that we suppose them to be while in this mortal life.

The Prophet Joseph Smith said: "I make this broad declaration, that whenever God gives a vision of an image, or beast, or figure of any kind, he always holds himself responsible to give a revelation or interpretation of the meaning thereof, otherwise we are not responsible or accountable for our belief in it. Don't be afraid of being damned for not knowing the meaning of a vision or figure, if God has not given a revelation or interpretation of the subject.

John saw curious looking beasts in heaven; he saw every creature that was in heaven,—all the beasts, fowls and fish in heaven—actually there, giving glory to God. How do you prove it? (See Rev. 5:13.)

"And every creature which is in heaven, and on earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honor, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb forever and ever." (Teachings, p. 291.)

Edited August 22, 2008 by Hemidakota

[Truegrits]

The only "BAD" humans I have known were made that way in a similar fashion. If we are all responsible for our own actions regardless of how we are raised, wouldn't dogs be held to a similar standard?

I do not believe all humans that are "bad" are that way because of abuse/hardships in their lives. I have known people, from childhood, that have had a "normal" upbringing, yet have done some really bad things. I know people that had terrible experiences, yet are "good", and not let their experiences define them.

Our brains are a lot more developed than a dogs, so...no, I do not think they will be judged as we are.

[DigitalShadow]

I do not believe all humans that are "bad" are that way because of abuse/hardships in their lives. I have known people, from childhood, that have had a "normal" upbringing, yet have done some really bad things. I know people that had terrible experiences, yet are "good", and not let their experiences define them.

Our brains are a lot more developed than a dogs, so...no, I do not think they will be judged as we are.

I don't believe that all humans are "bad" because of abuse/hardships either, but we are judged equally regardless of situation because we have the ability to not let our experiences define us. I think that the real question is whether dogs have that ability as well and to what extent.

I have seem dogs that are as sweet as can be despite being tortured by kids on a daily basis, and I've also known dogs that were incredibly mean reagardless of how nice their owners treat them. It is true that most dogs who are treated horribly on a regular basis their whole life end up being "bad" dogs, but I think the same can be said for humans.

[Gwen]

i've seen dogs that go well beyond their command to multiply and replenish the earth. (which is basically the only commandment given to animals right?) they create connections with ppl that are beyond just a pet. whenever i meet a dog that seems to have wandered to far from home i always ask it where it's people are, we joke about being owned by our pets all the time. they do love us, they seem to know things that animals aren't supposed to know according to science. how many ppl's lives have been saved by animals that seem to know and do things that are astounding?

if they have the ability to rise above all we think they are for good, doesn't it stand to reason that they can also do the oposite?

[mnn727]

I believe only animals that have been loved will go to heaven (ie mainly pets), otherwise it would be overrun by; bugs, reptiles, fish, roadkill and things we ate.

Not sure I want to see something I ate walking up to me in the CK.

How about a T-rex?

Edited August 22, 2008 by mnn727

[Moksha]

Besides which, how could there be a heaven without dogs? Or saxophones?

I'm still stuck on True Grits' assertion that there are no bad dogs. While I have no data on that, I have heard of bad sax.

Are we sure Pit Bulls and Dobermans could not benefit from extra missionary lessons?

[Jbs2763]

I think Joseph F Smith commented that he hoped he would have his favourite horse in the celestial kingdom, i'm sure one of you can find the actually quote

[Over43]

I hope so. A year ago my wife and I had to put a wonderful German Shepard to sleep who had spent the previous fourteen years being a pest, a pet, the most incredible watch dog you'd ever seen, and most importantly part of the family. During his last few months, when he couldn't climb the stairs to our bedroom, he'd stand at the bottom of the stairs and bark at night. So I'd go down with my blanket and pillow and sleep on the couch. He's lie down next to the couch all night.

O43

[VisionOfLehi]

...

Take the smartest animals in the world. Great apes and dolphins.

I believe their intelligence is compared to, at most, an 8 year old's. (I heard 2nd grader, which is actually 7)

And we do not believe that 7 year olds have the faculty nor the ability to be held accountable for their transgressions. They are saved and need not be baptized.

I don't understand why this is really a discussion from the standpoint it is. Even if animals have free will, and some level of intelligence and reasoning, would you honestly say they have enough of it to reach a state of accountability?

Please follow me on this scripture chain.

17 And the redemption of the soul is through him that quickeneth all things, in whose bosom it is decreed that the poor and the meek of the earth shall inherit it. 18 Therefore, it must needs be sanctified from all unrighteousness, that it may be prepared for the celestial glory;

19 For after it hath filled the measure of its creation, it shall be crowned with glory, even with the presence of God the Father;

20 That bodies who are of the celestial kingdom may possess it forever and ever; for, for this intent was it made and created, and for this intent are they sanctified.

4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. 5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.

6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.

7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.

8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice’ den.

18 And I, the Lord God, said unto mine Only Begotten, that it was not good that the man should be alone; wherefore, I will make an help meet for him. 19 And out of the ground I, the Lord God, formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and commanded that they should come unto Adam, to see what he would call them; and they were also living souls; for I, God, breathed into them the breath of life, and commanded that whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that should be the name thereof.

And the redemption of the soul is through him that quickeneth all things

...it was not good that the man should be alone.

And out of the ground I, the Lord God, formed every beast of the field...and they were also living souls.

Animals will dwell on Earth. Celestial Glory will dwell on Earth. ONLY Celestial Glory.

The only thing I can find that says an animal might not make it to Celestial Glory is that if doesn't meet the measure of its creation. That's the same standard WE'RE held to, as well, but for animals it's a little easier.

Can we judge a dog because it was "bad?" Doesn't the Lord judge us personally, based on what we did with what we were given?

Scriptures, to me, point to all animals being in the Celestial Kingdom.

I'm open to anyone being able to add or remove from this, scripturally.

[VisionOfLehi]

Plants are here to be used by us. We shall eat of the ground all our days.

Animals are here because it's no good for man to be alone. Either in the sense of man/woman being without the other, or the sense of man/animal being without the other.

Animals are not here for us to eat them (I know some denominations teach that.) And there have always been rules regarding the eating of animals. lol... The animal kingdom is not a buffet.

That said, I do agree that we're designed to eat meat.

[Bookmeister]

Makes you wonder about all those ward summer barbeques, huh? And, by the way, there won't be any bad sax in the celestial kingdom.

[Jbs2763]

Makes you wonder about all those ward summer barbeques, huh? And, by the way, there won't be any bad sax in the celestial kingdom.

from my experience the "cheap" hot dogs really dont contain "meat"

[NateHowe]

Actually, the Book of Mormon says in the penultimate verse that we may become "clean without spot." Obviously, Spot will not be there in heaven.

[VisionOfLehi]

I think that means we have to manage without Spot doing all the work for us

[SteveMitton]

BTW...in the movie "All Dogs Go to Heaven" it was animated and produced by Don Bluth (lds) and his mostly LDS crew, including on of my best friends, Mark Swan.