Annihilating the Gadianton Robbers?

[Prodigal_Son]

I noticed this thread from a few days ago: http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/14036-who-gadiantons-today.html

In light of the danger that today's Gadianton Robbers are, how do we liken Helaman 6:20 to us, here and now?

Helaman 6:20

And now it came to pass that when the Lamanites found that there were robbers among them they were exceedingly sorrowful; and they did use every means in their power to destroy them off the face of the earth.

I'd love to see some discussion on this approach considering the mamby-pamby, politically-correct, offend-no-one world we live in...

[MaidservantX]

. . . is found in Helaman 6:37.

[Prodigal_Son]

. . . is found in Helaman 6:37.

I have a hard time believing that using "every means in their power" is completely contained in "hunt[ing] the band" and "preach[ing] the word of God among the more wicked parts of them".

Doesn't fly.

[MaidservantX]

I actually love those passages, and the response of the Lamanites (as in 37). The first time I read it, or really read it, it startled me . . . gave me a deep smile all the way inside of me. It's really very plain. Did every Gadianton robber accept the gospel? I doubt it. Did some require a trial and received the consequences of it? I would say so. Were there battles? I would assume. Explain why it doesn't fly, lol. I'd like to see where your thoughts are going, my friend. We already know that excellent undercover work was part of the culture (see story of Kishkumen).

All very interesting. Good passage to talk about, thanks for bringing it up.

[a-train]

We must first understand who the enemy is and how they achieve their nasty deeds. We must understand that the global conspiracy we have been warned against is but a small group. They are only dangerous if we fall into their traps. The trouble is, most folks are really caught in those traps!

One of the best things we can do is: STAY OUT OF DEBT. How many times have we received that counsel? I lost count over a decade ago. The conspirators wish to heap us and this nation in debt. Why? Because in our impoverished condition, they will have their way. The Federal Reserve debases our money, the banks own our property, we work all day long and have nothing to show for it. This state is most often referred to as SLAVERY.

Look at the current Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac situation. Millions of Americans are now going to remain in gigantic debt to what is now, the U.S. Government. Meanwhile, the U.S. government is heaped in debt also. To who? Foreign governments such as Communist China. And, how did we get into this mess? The Federal Reserve put interest rates at insane lows and allowed the housing market to inflate to record levels and then popped the bubble by raising interest rates. It's that simple. If you were lured into more house than you can handle by those rates and the easy credit sales pitch, you unwittingly contributed to the crisis.

Had this nation followed the counsel of the prophets, this whole mess would have been avoided. So now what? The government grows bigger, our rights shrink, and power over this country is further centralized.

Staying out of debt is much more important than many think.

-a-train

[Prodigal_Son]

I actually love those passages, and the response of the Lamanites (as in 37). The first time I read it, or really read it, it startled me . . . gave me a deep smile all the way inside of me. It's really very plain. Did every Gadianton robber accept the gospel? I doubt it. Did some require a trial and received the consequences of it? I would say so. Were there battles? I would assume. Explain why it doesn't fly, lol. I'd like to see where your thoughts are going, my friend. We already know that excellent undercover work was part of the culture (see story of Kishkumen).

All very interesting. Good passage to talk about, thanks for bringing it up.

Good explanation. I thought, from your first post, that you believed they merely preached them out of existence.

My interest is the precedent that this passage provides for us today. Mormon recorded this for you and I. We are living in a wealthy, free-trade era where Gadianton Robbers are interwoven in myriad different ways.

The Saints talk about this every once in a while in class. But when are WE, the people of God, going to do "everything in our power" to fight these evils?

I would just love to label some of these groups and, I don't know, maybe even collaborate as a group??? on how we can combat these conglomerations of wickedness right here, right now.

Is this where I write it on my cloak? (No I don't at all consider myself a Moroni. )

[Prodigal_Son]

We must first understand who the enemy is and how they achieve their nasty deeds....

Definitely!

One of the best things we can do is: STAY OUT OF DEBT.

Amen to that. This recent economic turbulence has really opened my/my wife's eyes. We've been living the dream, doing the whole more-more-more thing. We've spent the past several months reconsidering our priorities.

So long as the current economic crunch doesn't break us , I'm really grateful it has come and we've had our eyes opened.

[threepercent]

I do think they mostly preached them out of existence. First of all because it says so. I dont think that was a little opps to throw us off track. I also think they hunted them down and killed them.

When Alma was Chief Judge and also the Prophet, he could have used law to attempt to crush the robbers, instead he LEFT the judgment seat and focused on educating the people. I dont think he chose poorly.

I think today if we had an educated people and they knew who the robbers were, that would quickly solve the problem. but thats back to the other thread.

[Prodigal_Son]

I think today if we had an educated people and they knew who the robbers were, that would quickly solve the problem. but thats back to the other thread.

Then why aren't we working to educate the masses? Why don't we put a bullseye on these groups?

[drjme]

Then why aren't we working to educate the masses? Why don't we put a bullseye on these groups?

There are groups attempting to educate the masses, they just get called tinfoil hat wearers by many in the church.

And also because that would be a huge problem for the church as an institution. Imho these groups have worldy power that could hinder the progress at this vital time, and It has more important things to focus on (the threefold mission), The time will come when it will be very clear who they are, to those who are awake it already is. Prophets of past exposed the threat openly and repeatedly, no one really listened then, why would they now?

[richlittell]

.......

Staying out of debt is much more important than many think.

-a-train

I'll never look at debt the same way again, thanks a-train.

[Prodigal_Son]

There are groups attempting to educate the masses, they just get called tinfoil hat wearers by many in the church.

And also because that would be a huge problem for the church as an institution. Imho these groups have worldy power that could hinder the progress at this vital time, and It has more important things to focus on (the threefold mission), The time will come when it will be very clear who they are, to those who are awake it already is. Prophets of past exposed the threat openly and repeatedly, no one really listened then, why would they now?

While I get what you're saying, I'm not suggesting we need a new committee at church. Just us, working together. How can ANYONE read those passages of scripture and NOT see the danger of just letting these groups alone?

[WANDERER]

A secret society to combat a secret society...it's confusing no?

[a-train]

So long as the current economic crunch doesn't break us

And where did that crunch come from? Mountains of debt were created by the loosest and cheapest mortgaging practices in US history which created a gigantic housing bubble which has popped and is now causing most of our woes. Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae have now been taken over by the Federal Government as a result. Thus, the scope, the size, and the power of the Federal Government has grown, the economy has weakened, and our liberties are more endangered. All due to speculation and debt.

Remember the tech bubble? Enormous amounts of borrowed money were dumped into the 'dot-coms'. At the height of almost runaway inflation, the Federal Reserve raised interest rates six times in 15 months. That finally burst the bubble and gave way to the heavy corporatization that followed.

You can call them looney all you want, but the John Birch Society has been right all along. They called Lehi a looney too; a 'visionary man' they called him in their mockery. But for all their mocking, right they were, he was truly visionary. And old Lehi was not alone (1 Nephi 1:4). Ultimately, the LORD's protection departed from apostate Israel and Babylon had its way with Jerusalem.

How did this happen? Zedekiah and his cronies were doing back door business with the Egyptians in a get-rich-quick scheme. At the end of the day it was all business and politics. Jerusalem was engrossed with mammon. Had they been seeking spiritual wealth rather than worldly pleasures, they would not have supported such schemes and would not have been destroyed. They would not have cared about promises of worldly wealth.

Today, as usual, the Gadiantons are working their get-rich-quick schemes. As long as we are carried about by mammon, we help and build their forces.

If our people rejected the Welfare State, the Nanny State, and Imperialism, the Gadiantons would not be doing so well. But this nation wants 'freebies' from Uncle Sam. This people wants to be cared for and babied. We don't want to trust the LORD, we want Uncle Sam to do everything. We don't see it as incumbent upon ourselves to help our fellow man, but we rather ask that our government perform the task for us. We are actually sleeping at night with the notion that bombing other countries for cheap gasoline is AOK.

We don't need social security, welfare, centralized education, military imperialism, centralized control of food and natural resources, super-national controls that weaken the sovereignty of nations in the name of peace, and all the big government that equates to communism. And we don't need all the toys and gadgets, the clothes, the cars, the houses, the things of mammon that we serve and worship.

There have been many who have been warning and voicing all of this now for generations, but they are mocked and scorned and ignored like the prophets of old.

The Gadiantons plan to use inflation and deflation to destroy us. The international bankers worked for generations to gain control of the monetary policy in the United States and other countries. Today, they have it. They control our money through the Federal Reserve.

"If the American people ever allow the banking system to control their money, first by inflation, then by deflation; their children will one day wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered." -Thomas Jefferson

If I may make a suggestion, try Ezra Taft Benson's exhortation to read None Dare Call It Conspiracy which he gave in General Conference. About that book he said: "I wish that every citizen of every country in the free world and every slave behind the Iron Curtain might read this book."

There are many who stoop to the level of mockery and bitterness when these things are discussed. But if we wish to know the truth and be wise as serpents, we must be nobler than that.

-a-train

Edited September 8, 2008 by a-train

[Prodigal_Son]

First off, awesome post A-train. I'm right with you on ALL of that. Which is nice. I swear everyone around me is asleep and uncomfortable confronting these issues.

...the scope, the size, and the power of the Federal Government has grown, the economy has weakened, and our liberties are more endangered. All due to speculation and debt.

My mother was in town yesterday and shared with me a quote from Brigham - a prophecy - where he said that the saints would basically tank themselves through greed and rampant speculation (kinda like Kirtland).

Jerusalem was engrossed with mammon. Had they been seeking spiritual wealth rather than worldly pleasures, they would not have supported such schemes and would not have been destroyed. They would not have cared about promises of worldly wealth.

I consider this to be the most insidious evil in LDS society today. The keep-up-with-the-joneses addiction has literally reached a point where it just disgusts me. The misconception that so many WANTS are today's NECESSITIES. Young couples with a $10/hr job and 2 new cars. Comments about not being caught dead in a certain brand of apparel. Embarrassment that their kid's stroller isn't an Eddie Bauer. Poor as dirt, but with a big old plasma TV...

I moved my family out of a subdivision and down a long dead-end road to get away from that crap. And it's made a BIG difference in my family.

Today, as usual, the Gadiantons are working their get-rich-quick schemes. As long as we are carried about by mammon, we help and build their forces.

I've always been disturbed by how many Saints think that get-rich-quick is a ligitimate business pursuit. Don't get me started on all the crock MLM's here in UT.

If our people rejected the Welfare State, the Nanny State, and Imperialism, the Gadiantons would not be doing so well. But this nation wants 'freebies' from Uncle Sam. This people wants to be cared for and babied. We don't want to trust the LORD, we want Uncle Sam to do everything. We don't see it as incumbent upon ourselves to help our fellow man, but we rather ask that our government perform the task for us. We are actually sleeping at night with the notion that bombing other countries for cheap gasoline is AOK.

We don't need social security, welfare, centralized education, military imperialism, centralized control of food and natural resources, super-national controls that weaken the sovereignty of nations in the name of peace, and all the big government that equates to communism. And we don't need all the toys and gadgets, the clothes, the cars, the houses, the things of mammon that we serve and worship.

The challenge we face is: how do we affect Congress (state and national) into making these changes? What can WE as a people do to make these course corrections?

[Prodigal_Son]

A secret society to combat a secret society...it's confusing no?

I don't want US to be secret at all. I want to be as loud as we can be.

[a-train]

We most often think about what we do in the ballot box, but the real votes are not cast with a ballot, but with a dollar bill. Why is your local transit system in shambles? Because people buy cars with debt, rather than train tickets with cash. Why do millions of Americans rush to get their new-born into the Social Security System? Because they get a nice income tax deduction. The trade off? Their child is then forced to give 12.5% of their income to Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid for their whole life.

Our service of mammon brings us into bondage.

-a-train

[Traveler]

I submitted a thought about the most powerful secret combination in operation today. No one seemed to understand the extent of what I offered. Currently we are looking for the King of terrorist we call Osama Bin Laden. He is hiding in the mountains – an interesting place to hide don’t you think? Willing to kill to advance his power base – has anyone heard of 9/11 and who claimed responsibility for that? Do you understand that our friend Bin Laden has declared war on the USA and western religion and democracy? It is interesting that the drug trade has been linked to the Middle East. Some claim that even the American drug cartels have connections the Middle Eastern drug trafficking.

Did you know that relatives of Bin Laden control the price of gasoline in the USA as well as the rest of the world? I also submit that relatives of Bin Laden influence, within the USA government, the deployment of US troops in both Iraq and Afghanistan? There is an old saying – follow the money – and where is the wealth of the world headed? Before you attempt to destroy the most powerful secret combination in operation today – you better be sure you know who it is you are after.

The Traveler

[Prodigal_Son]

Traveler. You're spot on. There's no better example than Al Qaeda. Mirror copy of the original G.R.'s. Taking out Bin Laden would definitely be a strong blow to their movement.

[threepercent]

I posted on the other GR thread a general responce to "hiding in caves" by richlittle.

this is it;

I do think they are a form of GR, just like gangs are here but:

but I think these are the ones easy to ID, and not the ones that:

did obtain the sole management of the government

or

that the Nephites did build them up and support them, beginning at the more wicked part of them, until they had overspread all the land of the Nephites, and had seduced the more part of the righteous until they had come down to believe in their works and partake of their spoils

because if this is a type and shadow, then they will:

1. obtain management of the government

2. the people will support them

3. even the righteous will BELIEVE in their works and

4. partake of their spoils.

and that aint the ms13 or the vice lords or a terrorist group, IN the BofM, the nephites are equivalent to the gentiles.

This is identifying someone diffrent. but I agree with you that terrorists and international oil cartels both also fall into the category.

[Prodigal_Son]

...the Nephites did build them up and support them, beginning at the more wicked part of them, until they had overspread all the land of the Nephites, and had seduced the more part of the righteous until they had come down to believe in their works and partake of their spoils

because if this is a type and shadow, then they will:

1. obtain management of the government

2. the people will support them

3. even the righteous will BELIEVE in their works and

4. partake of their spoils.

Wow. Sure sounds like a certain political party's philosophies, doesn't it? THAT is the GR group that scares me the most right now. We're reaching that threshold where the majority of the people are ready to choose wickedness over righteousness - even if it IS unwittingly.

[KrazyKay]

I received this from an email list I'm on. The email list is one where the list owner sends topics that goes along with what is being studied in gospel doctrine to help with the scripture studying. But this specific one pertains greatly to our discussion here:

Secret Combinations

The book of Helaman practically starts out with Kishkumen’s murder of the chief judge Pahoran (Helaman 1:9). Kishkumen’s fellow conspirators "entered into a covenant, yea, swearing by their everlasting Maker, that they would tell no man that Kishkumen had murdered Pahoran" (Helaman 1:11). Only later, when Kishkumen tries to kill Helaman, does it come to light that a secret combination led by one Gadianton was conspiring "to murder, and to rob, and to gain power" over the people (Helaman 2:4–5, 8). Though this is the first reported incident of a secret combination among the Nephites, Mormon makes the point that, in the end, "this Gadianton did prove the overthrow, yea, almost the entire destruction of the people of Nephi" (Helaman 2:13).

Helaman tells us that secret combinations originated with "that same being who did entice our first parents to partake of the forbidden fruit—yea, that same being who did plot with Cain, that if he would murder his brother Abel it should not be known to the world . . . who led on the people who came from that tower into this land; who spread the works of darkness and abominations over all the face of the land, until he dragged the people down to an entire destruction, and to an everlasting hell. Yea, that same being who put it into the heart of Gadianton to still carry on the works of darkness, and of secret murder" (Helaman 6:26–29).

When abridging the history of the Jaredites, Moroni describes how the fall of that mighty nation came about through those secret combinations and compares their destruction to the subsequent destruction of the Nephites. The Book of Mormon thus not only provides a twofold witness but also a prophetic pattern of how secret combinations lead to the entire destruction of a nation of God’s people, even the most blessed and perhaps most powerful nation in the world.

In fact, Moroni intersperses his abridgment with pointed warnings to the Gentiles who will live in the last days, whom he has seen in vision (Mormon 8:34–35). He says of secret combinations, "They have caused the destruction of this people of whom I am now speaking, and also the destruction of the people of Nephi. And whatsoever nation shall uphold such secret combinations, to get power and gain, until they shall spread over the nation, behold, they shall be destroyed; for the Lord will not suffer that the blood of his saints, which shall be shed by them, shall always cry unto him from the ground for vengeance upon them and yet he avenge them not.

"Wherefore, O ye Gentiles, it is wisdom in God that these things should be shown unto you, that thereby ye may repent of your sins, and suffer not that these murderous combinations shall get above you, which are built up to get power and gain—and the work, yea, even the work of destruction come upon you, yea, even the sword of the justice of the Eternal God shall fall upon you, to your overthrow and destruction if ye shall suffer these things to be. Wherefore, the Lord commandeth you, when ye shall see these things come among you that ye shall awake to a sense of your awful situation, because of this secret combination which shall be among you . . . For it cometh to pass that whosoever buildeth it up seeketh to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries" (Ether 8:21–25).

Earlier, Moroni had predicted that the Book of Mormon (including its sealed portion) would come forth "in a day when the blood of saints shall cry unto the Lord, because of secret combinations and the works of darkness" (Mormon 8:27).

Nephi similarly saw that secret combinations would exist in this land in the last days. He says, "The Gentiles are lifted up in the pride of their eyes . . . And there are many churches built up which cause envyings, and strifes, and malice. And there are also secret combinations, even as in times of old, according to the combinations of the devil" (2 Nephi 26:20–22). Finally, a revelation given to the Prophet Joseph Smith declares that the time would come when those preaching in the east would "teach them that shall be converted to flee to the west, and this in consequence of that which is coming upon the earth, and of secret combinations" (D&C 42:64).

Questions we may ask ourselves could include, Are we reaching that point now? Is the increasing terrorist threat to destroy America and other freedom-loving nations the beginning of what Book of Mormon prophets saw would happen to us? Are we approaching such a state of wickedness so as to be bringing these things upon ourselves? To determine answers to these question, we might compare the Pattern of Secret Combinations the Book of Mormon provides with what is happening today:

In the Book of Mormon, secret combinations gain power at a time when great contentions and dissensions occur among the people (Helaman 1:1–9; 2:1; 3:17–19; 4:1; 11:1; 3 Nephi 7:7; Ether 11:15); when their laws become corrupted and those who choose evil are more than those who choose good (Helaman 5:2–3; 3 Nephi 7:7); when riches and treasures become slippery so that one can’t retain them (Mormon 1:18–19; 2:10); when there are contentions and dissensions in the church and persecutions of the righteous (Helaman 3:33–34; 4:1, 11–12); when miracles occur among the Lamanites that lead to their mass conversion (Helaman 5:23–48); and when the Lamanites become more righteous than the Nephites (Helaman 6:1–3, 20–21, 34–38).

Those who belong to secret combinations enter into secret covenants and make oaths in God’s name (Helaman 1:11; 6:21–30; 11:26; 4 Nephi 1:42; Ether 8:14–20; 10:33); they murder the chief judge or ruler over the land (Helaman 1:9; 6:15; 8:27; Ether 14:9–10); they seek to destroy the lawful government (Helaman 1:9; 6:15, 39; 7:4; 3 Nephi 7:6; Ether 9:1; 10:33; 11:15, 18; 13:18; 14:8–10); they increase in cities and spread over the whole land (Helaman 3:23; 6:18, 38; 11:32; 3 Nephi 1:27, 29; 2:11; 4 Nephi 1:44, 46; Mormon 1:18; 2:8; 8:9; Ether 13:26); they trample the laws of God and of the land under their feet (Helaman 6:31; 7:4–5; 3 Nephi 7:6); they kill the prophets of God (Alma 37:30); they cause havoc and carnage throughout the land (Helaman 11:2, 27; 33; 3 Nephi 2:11; Mormon 2:8); and they give those who resist their power an ultimatum to surrender or be destroyed 3 Nephi 3:1–10).

[Hemidakota]

. . . is found in Helaman 6:37.

Some added Book of Mormon references:

Helaman 2:4

4 For there was one Gadianton, who was exceedingly expert in many words, and also in his craft, to carry on the secret work of murder and of robbery; therefore he became the leader of the band of Kishkumen.

Helaman 2:11

11 But behold, when Gadianton had found that Kishkumen did not return he feared lest that he should be destroyed; therefore he caused that his band should follow him. And they took their flight out of the land, by a secret way, into the wilderness; and thus when Helaman sent forth to take them they could nowhere be found.

Helaman 2:12

12 And more of this Gadianton shall be spoken hereafter. And thus ended the forty and second year of the reign of the judges over the people of Nephi.

Helaman 2:13

13 And behold, in the end of this book ye shall see that this Gadianton did prove the overthrow, yea, almost the entire destruction of the people of Nephi.

Helaman 3:23

23 And it came to pass in the forty and ninth year of the reign of the judges, there was continual peace established in the land, all save it were the secret combinations which Gadianton the robber had established in the more settled parts of the land, which at that time were not known unto those who were at the head of government; therefore they were not destroyed out of the land.

Helaman 6:18

18 And now behold, those murderers and plunderers were a band who had been formed by Kishkumen and Gadianton. And now it had come to pass that there were many, even among the Nephites, of Gadianton's band. But behold, they were more numerous among the more wicked part of the Lamanites. And they were called Gadianton's robbers and murderers.

Helaman 6:24

24 And whosoever of those who belonged to their band should reveal unto the world of their wickedness and their abominations, should be tried, not according to the laws of their country, but according to the laws of their wickedness, which had been given by Gadianton and Kishkumen.

Helaman 6:26

26 Now behold, those secret oaths and covenants did not come forth unto Gadianton from the records which were delivered unto Helaman; but behold, they were put into the heart of Gadianton by that same being who did entice our first parents to partake of the forbidden fruit--

Helaman 6:29

29 Yea, it is that same being who put it into the heart of Gadianton to still carry on the work of darkness, and of secret murder; and he has brought it forth from the beginning of man even down to this time.

Helaman 7:4

4 And seeing the people in a state of such awful wickedness, and those Gadianton robbers filling the judgment-seats--having usurped the power and authority of the land; laying aside the commandments of God, and not in the least aright before him; doing no justice unto the children of men;

Helaman 7:25

25 Yea, wo be unto you because of that great abomination which has come among you; and ye have united yourselves unto it, yea, to that secret band which was established by Gadianton!

Helaman 8:1

1 AND now it came to pass that when Nephi had said these words, behold, there were men who were judges, who also belonged to the secret band of Gadianton, and they were angry, and they cried out against him, saying unto the people: Why do ye not seize upon this man and bring him forth, that he may be condemned according to the crime which he has done?

Helaman 8:28

28 And behold, they both belong to your secret band, whose author is Gadianton and the evil one who seeketh to destroy the souls of men.

Helaman 11:10

10 O Lord, behold this people repenteth; and they have swept away the band of Gadianton from amongst them insomuch that they have become extinct, and they have concealed their secret plans in the earth.

Helaman 11:26

26 And thus in time, yea, even in the space of not many years, they became an exceedingly great band of robbers; and they did search out all the secret plans of Gadianton; and thus they became robbers of Gadianton.

3 Nephi 1:27

27 And it came to pass that the ninety and third year did also pass away in peace, save it were for the Gadianton robbers, who dwelt upon the mountains, who did infest the land; for so strong were their holds and their secret places that the people could not overpower them; therefore they did commit many murders, and did do much slaughter among the people.

3 Nephi 1:29

29 And there was also a cause of much sorrow among the Lamanites; for behold, they had many children who did grow up and began to wax strong in years, that they became for themselves, and were led away by some who were Zoramites, by their lyings and their flattering words, to join those Gadianton robbers.

3 Nephi 2:11

11 And it came to pass in the thirteenth year there began to be wars and contentions throughout all the land; for the Gadianton robbers had become so numerous, and did slay so many of the people, and did lay waste so many cities, and did spread so much death and carnage throughout the land, that it became expedient that all the people, both the Nephites and the Lamanites, should take up arms against them.

3 Nephi 2:12

12 Therefore, all the Lamanites who had become converted unto the Lord did unite with their brethren, the Nephites, and were compelled, for the safety of their lives and their women and their children, to take up arms against those Gadianton robbers, yea, and also to maintain their rights, and the privileges of their church and of their worship, and their freedom and their liberty.

3 Nephi 2:18

18 And thus ended the fourteenth year. And in the fifteenth year they did come forth against the people of Nephi; and because of the wickedness of the people of Nephi, and their many contentions and dissensions, the

Gadianton robbers did gain many advantages over them.

3 Nephi 3:9

9 And behold, I am Giddianhi; and I am the governor of this the secret society of Gadianton; which society and the works thereof I know to be good; and they are of ancient date and they have been handed down unto us.

3 Nephi 3:15

15 Yea, he said unto them: As the Lord liveth, except ye repent of all your iniquities, and cry unto the Lord, ye will in nowise be delivered out of the hands of those Gadianton robbers.

4 Nephi 1:42

42 And it came to pass that the wicked part of the people began again to build up the secret oaths and combinations of Gadianton.

4 Nephi 1:46

46 And it came to pass that the robbers of Gadianton did spread over all the face of the land; and there were none that were righteous save it were the disciples of Jesus. And gold and silver did they lay up in store in abundance, and did traffic in all manner of traffic.

Mormon 1:18

18 And these Gadianton robbers, who were among the Lamanites, did infest the land, insomuch that the inhabitants thereof began to hide up their treasures in the earth; and they became slippery, because the Lord had cursed the land, that they could not hold them, nor retain them again.

Mormon 2:27

27 And my heart did sorrow because of this the great calamity of my people, because of their wickedness and their abominations. But behold, we did go forth against the Lamanites and the robbers of Gadianton, until we had again taken possession of the lands of our inheritance.

Mormon 2:28

28 And the three hundred and forty and ninth year had passed away. And in the three hundred and fiftieth year we made a treaty with the Lamanites and the robbers of Gadianton, in which we did get the lands of our inheritance divided.

[threepercent]

Wow. Sure sounds like a certain political party's philosophies, doesn't it? THAT is the GR group that scares me the most right now. We're reaching that threshold where the majority of the people are ready to choose wickedness over righteousness - even if it IS unwittingly.

there are many "parties" names that fit this description. both current major parties fit this description easily.

Washington stated in his farewell address:

et me now take a more comprehensive view, & warn you in the most solemn manner against the baneful effects of the Spirit of Party, generally.

“This Spirit, unfortunately, is inseperable from our nature, having its root in the strongest passions of the human Mind. It exists under different shapes in all Governments, more or less stifled, controuled, or repressed; but in those of the popular form it is seen in its greatest rankness and is truly their worst enemy.

“The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge natural to party dissention, which in different ages & countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism. The disorders & miseries, which result, gradually incline the minds of men to seek security & repose in the absolute power of an Individual: and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing faction more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of his own elevation, on the ruins of Public Liberty.

“Without looking forward to an extremity of this kind (which nevertheless ought not to be entirely out of sight) the common & continual mischiefs of the spirit of Party are sufficient to make it the interest and the duty of a wise People to discourage and restrain it.

George Washington, Farewell address.

a quick study will see how prophetic he was, more than that, Satan is not unaware of these effects and uses his secret combination to his advantage over a sleeping and apathetic people:

" The argument that the two parties should represent opposed ideals and policies, one, perhaps of the Right and the other of the Left, is a foolish idea acceptable only to the doctrinaire and academic thinkers. Instead the two parties should be almost identical, so the that American people can 'throw the rascals out' at any election without leading to any profound or extensive shifts in policy."

Carrol Quigley, the history professor at the Foreign Service Schools of Georgetown University

Member of the CFR (Counsil on Forgien Relations)

now, you may ask who is Carrol Quigley and why would I put any weight on his words, other than we should be able to see with discernment that the above is true?

And then, as a student at Georgetown, I head that call clarified by a professor name Carol Quigley....

Bill Clinton DNC acceptance speech

Clinton specifically referenced Dr. Quigley in his autobiography, Bill Clinton- My Life, when he wrote,

"Quigley's insights had a particularly lasting impact. (so) from the 1992 campaign

through my two terms in office, I quoted Professor Quigley's line often (Clinton:

77-78."

and just what is "Quigleys line"

It is increasingly clear that, in the twentieth century, the expert will replace ... the

democratic voter in control of the political system. Hopefully, the elements of choice

and freedom may survive for the ordinary individual in that he may be free to make a

choice between two opposing political groups (even if these groups have little policy

choice within the parameters of policy established by the experts) and he may have the

choice to switch his economic support from one large unit to another. But, in general,

his freedom and choice will be controlled within very narrow alternatives by the fact

that he will be numbered from birth and followed, as a number, through his educational

training, his required military or other public service, his tax contributions, his

health and medical requirements, and his final retirement and death benefits (Tragedy

and Hope: 866).

Most people think in terms of Left and Right, but this is a thinking error. Prodigal son, please watch this to see a better method of looking at forms of government.

note that this presentation is missing the key information of the United Order, but that to enter the United Order we must have Individualism.

Please pay special attention to the political spectrum.

YouTube - -DVD Version: P5. Proper Role of Government

Notes: Mr G Edward Griffin co authored with Ezra Taft Benson some of the selections in "AN ENEMY HATH DONE THIS"

Edited September 9, 2008 by threepercent