My Wife is Wonderful

[Over43]

To counter the string of threads that have arisen and seem to publicly execute people's spouses on a world wide forum, I would like to change the tact that this forum is headed down.

I attempted that on a previous post, but apparently honesty is not always the best policy, so I'll try something different. Maybe something that is just as truthful, but maybe doesn't "offend" as apparently my previous post did.

The truth hurts, but sometimes it is sweet. So here we go.

I have been married for 21 years. To the same woman. We have had challenges, we have had disagreements, we have made mistakes. I can probably count on both hands the number of times we've raised our voices at each other.

We have had illnesses, some life threatening, but through prayer, blessings and what I would call the miracle of modern medicine we are both still here. We have raised 5 girls (are raising is probably the better term). We love them, we get frustrated by them, but they are ours and we take reponsibility for them. Our oldest seems bent on pushing every button she can. Right now the other 4 are as delightful as any four kids could be. Lucky.

When we go to church we sit with each other. The kids scattered on both sides of us.

We don't always pray together, read scriptures together, or attend those camps for couples. But, we are glued together because of the Gospel.

As we enter middle age we are both professionals, we take the time to "look good" for each other, and hope to age gracefully. We'd like to go on a mission when the time comes.

We even tolerate each other's parents.

I suspect that unlike many of the posts that get pinned up here, our marriage is probably the norm. People doing the best they can to do what they are supposed to do. Most of us don't do it perfectly, but we understand that the sanctity of marriage shouldn't be minimized or publicized on a world wide forum.

O43

[BenRaines]

O43,

So good to hear. Same going on here after almost 33 years. Kids are grown and are having kids of their own. Wife has always been and is a stay at home mom. We have been fortunate not to have the illnesses but have had our challenges. The gospel and Jesus Christ are the glue that holds our marriage together.

We made covenants when we married and they included Jesus Christ. Our marriage is a partnership of three. We too hope some day to serve a mission together.

Ben Raines

[Misshalfway]

I understand what you are saying, Over 43. But you use such strong language. (IE: Publically execute)

I wonder at your analysis of your previous thread. I think that a lot of us agreed with you.....with perhaps different insight or maybe some were trying to expand the view of the problem you highlighted for us. Why would you think that posters were "offended"? I didn't feel any offense on that thread. Just perhaps opinions and experience that were different than yours.

I am glad that you have had a good marriage. I am glad that you have been blessed to have the gospel succeed in keeping you together thru your hard times. Not everyone can say that. Not everyone can say that they have supportive family and friends. Not everyone can say that their spouse is equally committed to this gospel. And not everyone deals with pain the same way. I am glad that we have this wonderful gospel to lean on. But it is often thru other people that God does his work. And if someone is out there is suffering in silence, I would hope that they could seek out a support group or other LDS people who understand the unique issues only LDS people deal with with regards to marriage/sealings. Maybe in seeking such help mistakes are made. Perhaps some posts are too harsh....and too destructive. And I thank you for saying something. But.....even if someone posts full of unwanted feelings, isn't that human too? And just as worthy of a listening ear and a loving response as any post? What if someones words help to soften someone's heart or to re-evaluate how they were seeing their spouse or their problems and help them move from anger to love again?

I hope, Over43, that you can see that opening the discussion and entertaining different views is a good thing. I hope too that you can see that I am in no way disagreeing with you. I am just highlighting the view from a different perspective.

[Over43]

Just trying to make the world a better place for those of us who are "luckier".

O43

[Misshalfway]

Just trying to make the world a better place for those of us who are "luckier".

O43

And I am trying to make it a better place for those who were not.

[Over43]

But for those of us who are "luckier" we need a voice also. A strong lobby in congress! :)

O43

[BenRaines]

I never considered using "luck" to pick an eternal companion. Lucky?

Ben Raines

[Misshalfway]

I guess maybe I see the role of the "lucky" differently than you do. Where much is given much is expected. And I guess when I think of LDS people who are "lucky" as you put it, I would hope that such blessings would perhaps make one more compassionate to those who stumble and to those whose hands hang down.

But then again, maybe we should ask all who struggle to do so out of ear shot of the "lucky" so as to not make them uncomfortable.

[Mirium]

It's always good to post positive stories and for people to hear of things that are positive and uplifting but there are people who have no one to talk to and it is not good or healthy to bottle things up. The advantage of a site like this is that it is completely anonymous and people can say things that maybe they couldn't to someone they know. There are alot of people here with different experiences and some who have had similar experiences who can offer help and support. It could mean the difference between someone failing or succeeding in overcoming life's challenges.

I've had many problems in my life and still have (not with my husband but with other family members). It has been a struggle but my husband and I have tried to work through things together. It hasn't been easy and I cherish the good times we have.

I'm really pleased to hear of anyones wonderful marriage or accomplishments. We need to hear these stories so thankyou for your post over 43 but I'd like to think that if there is someone in trouble who felt they had no one to talk to and couldn't cope that they could feel at ease with coming here and talking to others.

Isn't the gospel about compassion and caring?

I mean no offense to anyone I just wanted to put my opinion accross.

[StrawberryFields]

Marriage is work and can ebb and flow. I consider myself lucky when the flow times out weight the ebbs.

[Misshalfway]

Mirium, I abolutely agree with you.

[Over43]

Thank you Mirium.

For those of you who were thrown by the term "lucky", maybe I should have used fortunate. To the more literal minded I guess lucky is offensive, apprently it conjures up visions of Vegas or Atlantic City.

Or maybe such disagreement is a "safety" defense used to avoid the real issue. Let's not convolute things with semantics.

The innapropriate use of a forum, a world wide forum, to expose one's spouse and his or her weaknesses, that is the issue. The term "Public execution" was questioned. OK, then let's use the term character assassination.

There are proper venues to dealing with a "weak" spouse or failing marriage. They include bishops, stake presidents and LDS social services. Bishops and Stake Presidents are tied to the responsibilty of confidentiality, so should the particpants who are married. church athourities have counseled us about delving itno our marital problems with others who do not have the authority to make decisions in such cases. This is a forum on the web, not your bishop's office.

Giving "advice" in such a forum should probably go no deeper than "Maybe that's something your bishop should be informed about...", words of condolances are always appropriate. "I'm sorry..."

If I PM someone and privately appologize for seemingly being "harsh" it isn't because I'm "afraid" of doing it "publicly" it's only that I was trying to have some "class". Apparently having "class" has been lost on some of you. So if you were the one who questioned my motives all I have to say to that is: You have got to be kidding me?

I am checking out of this trhead now. Feel free to peel my skin off, or turn the pitbulls lose. But deep down I think most of you know where I am coming from. Exposing one's mate, and his/her behavior internationally is wrong.

O43

[Misshalfway]

It didn't have to go this way, Over 43. I'm am sorry it did. It was a good thread. And while adding my opinions, I was in support of it. I am sorry, you feel you need to end it this way. Not how I would have preferred it to go. And if you were angry with me, I am sorry you chose to play it out here. I was just fine dealing with it privately.

[DapperDan]

Just trying to make the world a better place for those of us who are "luckier".

O43

Holy sanctimony batman! Really? So the luckier ones can't get sullied down by being around those who may not be so lucky? I fail to see your point. But let me see if I can follow your logic:

-People talk openly about their life with their friends on an open forum

-People look for some comfort, advice, support, friendship or companionship during hard times

-You listen in and join the conversation

-You figure the lucky people have heard enough of this hardship and that the world cannot support their weight anymore

-You raise the world's hopeful water level by singing the song of your "lucky-ness" in their face.

How's that scan?

[DapperDan]

"For those of you who were thrown by the term "lucky", maybe I should have used fortunate. To the more literal minded I guess lucky is offensive, apprently it conjures up visions of Vegas or Atlantic City."

Or maybe you could have said "blessed". Because heaven knows hardship and awful things occur in the absence of blessing. Opposition in all things right?

"The innapropriate use of a forum, a world wide forum, to expose one's spouse and his or her weaknesses, that is the issue. The term "Public execution" was questioned. OK, then let's use the term character assassination."

You are right a public character assassination is much less warranted than a private demoralization of the soul. Some of the things that the people on this site have experienced have been ugly, painful, destructive and life-altering. Heaven forbid the come out of their hiding places for a day and hope that someone with an understanding voice may hear them.

"There are proper venues to dealing with a "weak" spouse or failing marriage. They include bishops, stake presidents and LDS social services. Bishops and Stake Presidents are tied to the responsibilty of confidentiality, so should the particpants who are married. church athourities have counseled us about delving itno our marital problems with others who do not have the authority to make decisions in such cases. This is a forum on the web, not your bishop's office."

Boy, this is amazing. I agree with you completely that you should be working with your Bishop in the resolution of these matters. However, to say that he is the ONLY venue you should use? Man, are you worried about the world being overwhelmed by the pollution of hardship?

"If I PM someone and privately appologize for seemingly being "harsh" it isn't because I'm "afraid" of doing it "publicly" it's only that I was trying to have some "class". Apparently having "class" has been lost on some of you. So if you were the one who questioned my motives all I have to say to that is: You have got to be kidding me?"

Maybe you should take your classy style and start some more positive threads then. Let the rest of the unlucky ones continue to wallow in all that supportive stuff below you.

[Wingnut]

Come on guys, he was just trying to start a thread to speaking positively about each other's spouses. Do we really have to fight about what one word or another meant? Can't we just let it be a happy place?

O43, I appreciate your sharing about your wife. It reminds me of my own prayer habits sometimes...it's easy to remember to do it when times are tough, but not so much when things are going well. We often talk about our spouses when things aren't going great with them, but perhaps not as often about the good times.

Me, I've been married less than three years. I have one beautiful daughter and one amazing husband. He's selfless, gentle, and kind. I think I can count on one hand the number of real arguments we've had, and one of them was while I was pregnant, so it doesn't really count, since it was (almost) entirely hormonally driven. My hubs is almost never the antagonist...that's my role, I'm sad to say. But he's good at diffusing, which is what I need. I look forward to many more happy years together.

[Vort]

For those of you who were thrown by the term "lucky", maybe I should have used fortunate.

Now THAT makes a difference!

I wuv my wife, the wight of my wittow wife. I am vewy, vewy wucky. What kind of wudicwous wamebwain could take offense at that? Weawwy.

The innapropriate use of a forum, a world wide forum, to expose one's spouse and his or her weaknesses, that is the issue. The term "Public execution" was questioned. OK, then let's use the term character assassination.

If the exposition is identifiable to an individual, then I agree with you. At the very least, it's sadly pathetic that anyone would expose his/her spouse to such public abuse. But assuming the whining is anonymous, I think that may be going a little far. Such unspecified complaining may allow the complainer to get some perspective on the issue and perhaps receive some input to help him/her see another side to it, maybe even how s/he has some fault in the matter.

(Sounds like this is regarding a particular thread on this forum...if so, I have not read it and am offering no opinions on any particular thread, just the general idea of whining about your spouse on a discussion list.)

Giving "advice" in such a forum should probably go no deeper than "Maybe that's something your bishop should be informed about...", words of condolances are always appropriate. "I'm sorry..."

Agreed. There was a recent thread where people were actually telling a woman to leave her husband! Unbelievable. I mentioned that such things were totally inappropriate, and offended some people by saying so.

Again, I'm not privy to the particular thread that apparently inspired this conversation, so I'm not commenting on it, just in general.

[DapperDan]

Come on guys, he was just trying to start a thread to speaking positively about each other's spouses. Do we really have to fight about what one word or another meant? Can't we just let it be a happy place?

Wingnut, I agree with you - a thread being positive about our spouses would be a great idea. If that was the only thing this started on it would have been a screaming success, i believe. This is the piece that bothers me:

"we understand that the sanctity of marriage shouldn't be minimized or publicized on a world wide forum"

"Just trying to make the world a better place for those of us who are "<insert favorite alternate here>"

"Exposing one's mate, and his/her behavior internationally is wrong"

The judgment here is palpable. And YES, it is completely fine to go to the place where you find friendship and talk about wrongful doing, pain, suffering or otherwise unsavory or uncelestial conduct. We are not a whited sepulcher.

Edited September 11, 2008 by DapperDan

[Misshalfway]

It is all good. Over 43 and I just understand the same thing a little differently is all. And there was some defensiveness there. I support his desire to bring balance and share uplifting stories if he feels it is needed. I am sorry that we had some tension between us and that it was displayed here. But, that is all that needs to get said about that.

There is no doubt that marriage is a blessing and a wonderful thing for the individual and for society. I am grateful for the gospel and the church and the values I have been taught about marriage from infancy. I think that there is much to be learned by being in a marriage in both good times and bad. God is there in all circumstances. And it is perhaps the hard times that teach us and the good times that make us grateful for both.

To Vort.

There was a recent thread where people were actually telling a woman to leave her husband! Unbelievable. I mentioned that such things were totally inappropriate, and offended some people by saying so.

If you are referring to the thread I think you are referring to, I don't think anyone was telling her to divorce. I think most people just felt that perhaps a little physical distance or time apart might be a good place for her to start healing and gain a little perspective. At least that is the way I was reading people.

[Vort]

If you are referring to the thread I think you are referring to, I don't think anyone was telling her to divorce. I think most people just felt that perhaps a little physical distance or time apart might be a good place for her to start healing and gain a little perspective. At least that is the way I was reading people.

MHW, you're a nice person and a pleasure to talk with. It may be that your native nice-ness is coloring your reading of people's comments. (Remember Jane from Pride and Prejudice?) For example:

"Either get rid of him and find a way to get help or find a happier environment for your kids."

"I will pray for you that you will be able to find a way to get a way from your abusive husband."

"First and foremost, I think you need to get away from your husband. He's abusing you."

None of these sounds to me like "people [who] just felt that perhaps a little physical distance or time apart might be a good place for her to start healing and gain a little perspective." Rather, they sound to me like people telling a woman to ditch her husband.

I'm all for people finding solace with friends, working out their problems, and giving advice. But that advice should never be to leave your spouse. No one who posts on this board has the authority or wisdom to make such a judgment call for another poster.

[Misshalfway]

You really mean never?? If your little girl were being hurt by her husband, would you really want all of her friends to encourage her to stay? And I still look at all those quotes and don't see that absolute divorce was what they meant. Although, if the situation was bad enough, it may be the right thing. "MIGHT" being the key word, there.

And you are a pleasure to talk with too. :)

Edited September 11, 2008 by Misshalfway

[Truegrits]

No one who posts on this board has the authority or wisdom to make such a judgment call for another poster.

I agree that I am not qualified to give that kind of advice to a stranger posting on a public forum. I do not have personal knowledge of the people concerned...I do not know the truth of the story being told. I would not presume to tell someone (male OR female) to leave their mate on the basis of information given on a public site.

But that advice should never be to leave your spouse

If my best friend or a family member were being mentally or physically abused, and I knew this was happening, I would most assuredly tell them to leave! NO ONE should have to live in such an environment. I would also advice the "abuser" to seek help...and that they seek help as a couple. But I would advise time apart.

Children, especially, should not have to live in such a potentially damaging atmosphere.

[Vort]

You really mean never??

I do. Such judgments cannot accurately be made over the medium of a discussion board.

If your little girl were being hurt by her husband, would you really want all of her friends to encourage her to stay?

My little girl being advised by close friends is much different from some anonymous poster being advised by equally anonymous posters. To revisit what I wrote:

I'm all for people finding solace with friends, working out their problems, and giving advice. But that advice should never be to leave your spouse. No one who posts on this board has the authority or wisdom to make such a judgment call for another poster.

On rereading that statement, I think I'm right and I stand by it.

And I still look at all those quotes and don't see that absolute divorce was what they meant.

You may interpret them however suits you, of course, but when taking them at face value without injecting outside inferences, their meaning is clear enough.

Although, if the situation was bad enough, it may be the right thing. "MIGHT" being the key word, there.

Sure, it's possible. But that determination cannot possibly be made in this venue, and no one on this board should ever be telling another poster to leave his or her spouse. That is explicitly anti-Christian behavior, directly violating the Lord's teachings in Mark 10:9.

And you are a pleasure to talk with too. :)

That's very kind of you to say. I'm pretty sure you're the first (and most likely the last) to make that statement on this board. :)

[Misshalfway]

Yes. Anonymous posters....point taken.

[Connie]

Wow, Vort, point very well taken, and i think you're right. My husband always tells me that i'm a lot like Jane from Pride and Prejudice, but i never believed him until now.

If the exposition is identifiable to an individual, then I agree with you. At the very least, it's sadly pathetic that anyone would expose his/her spouse to such public abuse. But assuming the whining is anonymous, I think that may be going a little far. Such unspecified complaining may allow the complainer to get some perspective on the issue and perhaps receive some input to help him/her see another side to it, maybe even how s/he has some fault in the matter.

I also think you're right on with this statement.