Mulitple gods vs. One God

[August]

My understanding is that Mormons believe in the existence of many gods, that devout mormons can become gods themselves, and that "Heavenly Father" was himself once a man. Is this accurate? If so, what do you use to support this claim?

Also, if God isn't eternal and unchanging, but rather an exalted man, why worship only him? Why not worship all the men who've become gods? Or, why worship at all someone who you hope to someday be equal to?

I'm not necessarily hoping for a definitive answer, just for a better understanding. I'm sure some one will tell me to talk to the missionaries, but I'm in a position where that really isn't possible, and I don't want to waste their time talking to someone who won't convert anyway.

What ever you can tell me will be great, thanks!

[Palerider]

another good source of info would be......LDS.org

[siouxz72]

I think Dr T should answer this one. :) or post a linkback to his thread from three years ago. lol.

[a-train]

Jesus is God (John 1:1).

Jesus (God) is Eternal and unchanging, that is why he is called 'I Am' (John 8:58)

Jesus (God) came to the earth and lived as a man (the Gospels).

Jesus (God) died (Mark 15:37).

The body of God was laid in a tomb (Mark 15:46).

That same body rose from the grave (Luke 24:39).

Jesus (God) ascended bodily into heaven to sit at the right hand of the Father (Luke 16:19, Acts 7:55-56).

Those who overcome this world through the blood of Christ will sit with Him in His throne, just as He overcame and is set down with His Father in His throne. (Rev. 3:21)

The notion is purely biblical, the Book of Mormon says the same, as do the revelations of latter-day prophets.

-a-train

[siouxz72]

the notion is purely biblical...love it!

[August]

Jesus is God (John 1:1).

Jesus (God) is Eternal and unchanging, that is why he is called 'I Am' (John 8:58)

Jesus (God) came to the earth and lived as a man (the Gospels).

Jesus (God) died (Mark 15:37).

The body of God was laid in a tomb (Mark 15:46).

That same body rose from the grave (Luke 24:39).

Jesus (God) ascended bodily into heaven to sit at the right hand of the Father (Luke 16:19, Acts 7:55-56).

Those who overcome this world through the blood of Christ will sit with Him in His throne, just as He overcame and is set down with His Father in His throne. (Rev. 3:21)

The notion is purely biblical, the Book of Mormon says the same, as do the revelations of latter-day prophets.

-a-train

Could you explain what you mean a little more? Are you saying that the Rev 3:21 says you'll become a God, like Jesus?

[HiJolly]

My understanding is that Mormons believe in the existence of many gods, that devout mormons can become gods themselves, and that "Heavenly Father" was himself once a man. Is this accurate? If so, what do you use to support this claim?

Also, if God isn't eternal and unchanging, but rather an exalted man, why worship only him? Why not worship all the men who've become gods? Or, why worship at all someone who you hope to someday be equal to?

I'm not necessarily hoping for a definitive answer, just for a better understanding. I'm sure some one will tell me to talk to the missionaries, but I'm in a position where that really isn't possible, and I don't want to waste their time talking to someone who won't convert anyway.

What ever you can tell me will be great, thanks!

Sounds like you've been hearing about what some Church leaders have said over the years, perhaps from the Journal of Discourses. May I suggest you read this statement from the Church concerning what we do and don't consider 'doctrine'? It is here: Approaching Mormon Doctrine - LDS Newsroom

Enjoy!

HiJolly

[wistle2000]

If we have a father of our family who is raising us, does that mean there are no other fathers? There are multiple fathers, and our God is our father. We do not follow another because we are his family.

Truth is simple and truth is eternal. Is this not as simple as it can get?

Good luck

[L_and_P21]

king follett discourse

[wa1den]

Basic Biblical/scriptural concepts:

!. We (the human family, the family of Adam) are sons and daughters of God – we are his

offspring.

Jer. 1: 5

5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the

womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the enations. (this was God

speaking to Jeremiah the prophet, stating he knew him even before he came to this

earth)

Heb. 12: 9

9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them

reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and

live?

Acts 17: 28

28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets

have said, For we are also his offspring. (Paul speaking to the Greeks about the nature

of God)

Eccl. 12: 7

7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God

who gave it. (bear in mind that you cannot RETURN to a place you have never been

before!)

2. As offspring or literal children of God, if we will follow the path he has prescribed and

obey his commandments, then we will become his heirs:

Rom. 8:16-17

16 The Spirit itself beareth awitness with our bspirit, that we are the cchildren of God:

17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ;

Rev. 21: 7

7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my

son.

3. As his heirs, the scriptures say we shall be like Him. (we know that in every species,

the offspring grow up to be like their progenitors).

Ps. 82: 6

6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. (this quote is

from the old testament ...now compare this to the following quote where Christ himself

cites this same passage of scripture)

John 10: 34 - 36

34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture

cannot be broken;

36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou

blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

1 Jn. 3: 2

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but

we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he

is.

4.Finally, for the sake of clarification, nobody is saying that we will be equal to God - He

is eternally to be God over us... any who achieve the stature He has promised will

inherit the same things He has, but He will remain superior and God over all of us. No

one else will ever occupy that position over us, no matter whether they may inherit the

promised glory and stature, nevertheless, even as one man is and always remains as

father to each of us, so God will always be God over us, and no one else will ever

occupy that position relative to us but Him, though they may come to occupy such a

position over others that become their spirit offspring. We will all eternally be subject to

the father of our spirits, who is God the Father.

[Gwen]

LDS.org - Ensign Article - The Pattern of Our Parentage

[MarginOfError]

Also, if God isn't eternal and unchanging, but rather an exalted man, why worship only him? Why not worship all the men who've become gods? Or, why worship at all someone who you hope to someday be equal to?

Please forgive me for not addressing the other questions. I hope that others have done enough to address those points for you, but I'm not sure that the above point has been addressed. I'll also ask that you forgive me for copying and pasting a section of a post from another thread on prayer.

The simple answer is that we worship the Beings that are make our eternal salvation possible. Now, to expound:

Let us assume multiple gods as you have described in your original post. Also, let us assume LDS doctrine, that the Father developed a plan whereby His children could obtain a body, experience, and the chance to receive a glory similar to His own. To obtain these things, He requires that we live a life according to commandments that he has set. Unfortunately, we're all a bunch of delinquent children who can't seem to get it quite right. Thus, we aren't deserving of the reward he has for us.

Our good fortune is, however, that one person was able to live life entirely according to the laws of the Father. This person steps up and says to the Father, "I have met your requirements and am therefore free from your laws. I wold like to purchase all the others from you by paying the price of their shortcomings." The Father agrees, and releases all other souls to this person after the price is paid.

Under this description, we would worship Jesus Christ, since he is the one who makes salvation possible for each of us. It is our understanding from the scriptures that Christ also requires that we worship God the Father. We worship no other entities because no other entities play a role in our salvation.

I hope that comes across the way I intended. Great question. Look forward to having you around.

[a-train]

Could you explain what you mean a little more? Are you saying that the Rev 3:21 says you'll become a God, like Jesus?

Rev. 3:21: "To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne."

Also: "He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son." (Rev. 21:7)

What does "become a God, like Jesus" mean?

Are you asking if the righteous will become the same species as Jesus? Paul said: "Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device." (Acts 17:29)

Are you asking if the righteous will gain a mighty position as servants of the Most High God in heaven, fulfilling heavenly duties in His Presence? "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years." (Rev. 20:4)

Are you asking if the righteous will have some great inheritance from God? Matt 5:5: "Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth." "Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness’ sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven." (Matt 5:10)

Are you asking if the righteous will become immortal like Jesus? "Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die." (John 11:25-26)

-a-train

[Hemidakota]

I do know there are three GODS - GOD the FATHER, Jesus the Christ, and the Holy Ghost.

[August]

If we have a father of our family who is raising us, does that mean there are no other fathers? There are multiple fathers, and our God is our father. We do not follow another because we are his family.

If God is our father, who is his father? Isn't it usually the oldest elder of a family that is most revered? I guess I'm asking, under this concept, who or what is the ultimate creator?

[bytor2112]

We believe that if we are valiant in our testimonies of Christ and recieve all of the sacred saving ordinances available to us that we will receive Eternal life in the Celestial Kingdom and eternaly progress. We do not believe that we will become God or equal to him, but rather we can become like him. Yes, everyone who has ever lived or will ever live will have the opportunity to recieve the gospel, repent and if valiant grow and progress in the eternal realms. We believe that we will be heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ.....to inherit the same glory and the same exaltation, until you arrive at the station of a god (small g) and ascend the throne of eternal power. Godhood is to have the character, possess the attributes, and enjoy the perfections which the Father has. It is to do what he does, have the powers resident in him and live as he lives, having eternal increase. It is not to become equal to God the Father.

As for God having a God and so on.....no. He is it...the Almighty.

[Guest ceeboo]

We believe that if we are valiant in our testimonies of Christ and recieve all of the sacred saving ordinances available to us that we will receive Eternal life in the Celestial Kingdom and eternaly progress. We do not believe that we will become God or equal to him, but rather we can become like him. Yes, everyone who has ever lived or will ever live will have the opportunity to recieve the gospel, repent and if valiant grow and progress in the eternal realms. We believe that we will be heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ.....to inherit the same glory and the same exaltation, until you arrive at the station of a god (small g) and ascend the throne of eternal power. Godhood is to have the character, possess the attributes, and enjoy the perfections which the Father has. It is to do what he does, have the powers resident in him and live as he lives, having eternal increase. It is not to become equal to God the Father.

As for God having a God and so on.....no. He is it...the Almighty.

Hello my friend bytor,

Here we go again ( LOL ):)

From my Catholic perspective ( and I certainly do not claim to know what LDS teaches more then LDS themselves ) BUT, it is very clear to me what Joseph Smith was teaching as a prophet regarding this. (King Follet Sermon)

He cleary prophetized God was once a man just like us ( an exalted man ) on another planet

He also encourages us to become Gods ourselves

I would also suggest, from another thread, that many LDS members on this board would not agree with you on " God having a God and so on ".

God bless,

Carl

[Misshalfway]

If God is our father, who is his father? Isn't it usually the oldest elder of a family that is most revered? I guess I'm asking, under this concept, who or what is the ultimate creator?

What a fascinating question this is! Wouldn't it be great if we had definitive answers on subjects such as this?

For the sake of understanding LDS Doctrine, I refer to Hemi's quote. The Creator is God the Father. He is the father of our spirits and The Savior, His only begotten Son, the world and all of us in it were created. Because He is our Father, our eye is single to Him. He will lead us to salvation exclusively. If there are other God's somewhere beyond our universe....they are irrelevant to our earthly purposes and our exaltation.

Please understand that the answers concerning "God having a God" and so forth will have to wait until God see's fit to reveal more on this subject or we get to the giant Q & A on the other side. :)

There are more important things to understand about God and the God head. Such as His nature and capabilities, His physical form, His mission and purpose for us, and the mission and sacrifice his only begotten Son.

[August]

There are more important things to understand about God and the God head.

I'm not so sure about that, honestly. I'm asking questions about the ultimate nature of God. I think it matters very much what the ultimate power in all creation/every universe etc is. I suppose that's one difference in how Mormons and most Christians look at things.

[bytor2112]

Hello my friend bytor,

Here we go again ( LOL ):)

From my Catholic perspective ( and I certainly do not claim to know what LDS teaches more then LDS themselves ) BUT, it is very clear to me what Joseph Smith was teaching as a prophet regarding this. (King Follet Sermon)

He cleary prophetized God was once a man just like us ( an exalted man ) on another planet

He also encourages us to become Gods ourselves

I would also suggest, from another thread, that many LDS members on this board would not agree with you on " God having a God and so on ".

God bless,

Carl

From Lectures on Faith: ( Joseph Smith)

......God is the only supreme governer and independent being in whom all fullness and perfection dwell; who is omnipotent and omnipresent and omniscient; without beginning of days or end of life; and that in himevery good gift and every good principle dwell; and that he is the Father of lights; in him the principle of faith dwells independently and he is the object of all other rational and accountable beings centers for life and salvation.

[bytor2112]

I'm not so sure about that, honestly. I'm asking questions about the ultimate nature of God. I think it matters very much what the ultimate power in all creation/every universe etc is. I suppose that's one difference in how Mormons and most Christians look at things.

Just for the record Mormons are Christians and some Christian groups don't consider Catholics Christian either........and I absolutely agree...we need to know the nature of God...as it says in Holy writ, " 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

[Guest ceeboo]

From Lectures on Faith: ( Joseph Smith)

......God is the only supreme governer and independent being in whom all fullness and perfection dwell; who is omnipotent and omnipresent and omniscient; without beginning of days or end of life; and that in himevery good gift and every good principle dwell; and that he is the Father of lights; in him the principle of faith dwells independently and he is the object of all other rational and accountable beings centers for life and salvation.

Hello again bytor,

I certainly do not argue that what you have shared is " a teaching " of JS, and I certainly do not need to be convinced ( as you know, I am not LDS ).

I was pointing out another JS teaching that certainly seems to contradict the one you offer.

Out of curiosity, why do you choose to hold this teaching and not the other??

God bless,

Carl

[Guest ceeboo]

some Christian groups don't consider Catholics Christian either..

What Christian groups are you suggesting??

God bless,

Carl

[Misshalfway]

I'm not so sure about that, honestly. I'm asking questions about the ultimate nature of God. I think it matters very much what the ultimate power in all creation/every universe etc is. I suppose that's one difference in how Mormons and most Christians look at things.

I think perhaps you may have misunderstood my statement here.

Understanding the nature of God IS absolutely fundamental to LDS people. Not sure why you would see that point differently because of my statement. I was trying to clarify on this subject "Gods" there are more questions than answers. That is why I point your view to more important parts of our understanding of God.....which is why you are here, correct??? To understand LDS doctrine better???

For instance, We believe God has an eternal and immortal body of flesh and bone. He has a son that also possesses an immortal body of flesh and bone. He is our creator and the creator and supreme power in this universe and the only source of power and salvation for all of us. He is the beginning and the end! And He created a plan of happiness so that we could overcome sin and death by the sacrifice of his son. This is part of the core of the nature of God as we understand him. I could add a list of his attributes as well.

It is clear that we understand God differently on some points than other Christian denominations. But I think I agree absolutely with you that understanding the very nature of God is key and our desire to understand God, to me, is no different than anyone on this earth who has sought to understand God. Bytor's scripture says it best.

Edited September 18, 2008 by Misshalfway

[bytor2112]

Hello again bytor,

I certainly do not argue that what you have shared is " a teaching " of JS, and I certainly do not need to be convinced ( as you know, I am not LDS ).

I was pointing out another JS teaching that certainly seems to contradict the one you offer.

Out of curiosity, why do you choose to hold this teaching and not the other??

God bless,

Carl

Hi Ceeboo,

I don't know of any church doctrine that suggests that God has a God and so on.....and I adhere to all doctrines of salvation and saving principles as taught by the Church.......