Vision of the Spirit World

[tubaloth]

A guy from my work gave me this talk about a Vision a Stake President had in 1920 about the Spirit world. It was interesting to read. As I sent a copy to my family, they ended up finding a copy online.

Vision, of Heber Hale, Boise Stake 1920

Enjoy.

[pam]

An awesome read. Thanks for posting.

[FenderFan]

Wow! Thanks tubaloth...

I was particularly impressed by the following passage

I presently beheld a mighty multitude of men, the largest I had ever seen gathered in one place, who I immediately recognized as soldiers, the millions who had been slaughtered and rushed so savagely into the world of spirits during the great world war [WWI]. Among them moved, calmly and majestically, a great general in supreme command. As I drew nearer, I received the kingly smile and generous welcome of a great loving man, General Richard W. Young. Then came the positive conviction to my soul, that of all the men living or dead, there is not one who is so perfectly fitted for the great mission unto which he had been called. He commands immediately the attention and respect of all the soldiers. He is at once a great general and a great High Priest of God. No earthly field of labor to which he could have been assigned, could compare with it in importance and extent. I passed from this scene to return later when I found General Young had this vast army of men completely organized with officers over successive divisions, and all were seated, and he was preaching the gospel in great earnestness to them.

My Granduncle, William John Gash, would have been in that group, his life having been taken by a single fatal wound in October 1915. Also there would have been Wallace James Carvill, my (if I've calculated this right) 1st cousin three times removed - he was a medic who died in March 1917 (of the measles!) while serving with the military in St Omer, France.

Thanks to the wonderful new Family Search, and prompted by reading this thread, William's work has now been reserved for my family to complete.

FF

[Palerider]

Very interesting......:)

[Prodigal_Son]

That's amazing! I loved getting a picture of the Spirit World. Never had a good image in mind, but now... Just fantastic! I'm already printing it up and emailing...

[Hemidakota]

A guy from my work gave me this talk about a Vision a Stake President had in 1920 about the Spirit world. It was interesting to read. As I sent a copy to my family, they ended up finding a copy online.

Vision, of Heber Hale, Boise Stake 1920

Enjoy.

Reminds me of Hugh's [Nibley] five minutes of Paradise [spirit World]. Both are witnessed of each other visions.

[skalenfehl]

Thank you for sharing this. While the entire scene was captivating to imagine, what struck me most was the following paragraph as Heber was returning:

As I was approaching the place where I entered, my attention was attracted towards a number of small groups of women, preparing what appeared to me wearing apparel. Observing my inquiring countenance one of the women remarked, “We are preparing to receive Brother Phillip Worthington very soon.” As I grasped his name in repetition I was admonished, “If you knew the joy and the glorious mission that awaits him here you would not ask to have him longer detained upon the earth.” Then came flooding my consciousness this awful truth, that the will of the Lord can be done on earth as it in is heaven, only when we resign completely to His will and let His will be done in and through us. On account of the selfishness of many, persons who might have otherwise been taken in innocence and peace, have been permitted to live, and have lived to their own peril, men and the assertion of the personal will as against the will of God. Phillip Worthington died January 22, 1920, for which I was advised by telegram, and returning to Boise, preached his funeral sermon on January 25, 1920

[justamere10]

Thank you for sharing this. While the entire scene was captivating to imagine, what struck me most was the following paragraph as Heber was returning:

...only when we resign completely to His will and let His will be done in and through us.

There is much merit in doing that I am sure but it triggers the restless intellect part of me to question where the line might be between resigning oneself to God's will (as if we knew it) and being apathetic and lukewarm.

My guess is that many faithful LDS have strong individual desires that are yet unfulfilled. They may often in their prayers say sincerely "thy will be done."

But where is the balance between desiring and striving, and just resigning ourselves to "God's will", unless of course we clearly know His will regarding the matter already?

For example, let's say someone profoundly wants to have their calling and election made sure. That seems to be a righteous desire, so that person prays and asks God for it to be fulfilled. But after the passing of much time with no fulfillment, and no clear expression of His will provided, should that person assume that it is not God's will for him/her and resign him/herself to that? Or should they continue to 'wrestle' with the Lord about it, all the while perhaps gaining faith that it will eventually be fulfilled?

Comments?

[skalenfehl]

I think finding out for one's self whether or not that is our will and/or if it is a righteous desire that also fits into God's will. Consider how many people in the scriptures wrestled with God and angels--Cornelius in the NT, Jacob in the OT, Enos and Alma in the BoM, etc.

I believe that along the way in this life, as we progress and find that what is God's will is to bring to pass our immortality and eternal life, we become part of that will. How and when He grants us our own desires is according to His will and His time, not ours. But if they are righteous desires and we submit that we understand that it may not be His will in our time (right now, for example or tomorrow), then it will become clear to us. We learn line upon line and precept upon precept according to our righteousness and His timing. He knows just how much we are converted to His cause. How often do we go to the temple? Are we consistent and caring hometeachers? Where are our thoughts and our hearts daily? Are we constantly drawn out in prayer? Are we distracted by the shiny things of the world? In other words, how fully are we converted to His work and glory? This is how I've experienced this in my life anyway. Sometimes we just hear 'no,' when maybe the answer is 'not yet.'

Edited September 22, 2008 by skalenfehl

[Misshalfway]

For example, let's say someone profoundly wants to have their calling and election made sure. That seems to be a righteous desire, so that person prays and asks God for it to be fulfilled. But after the passing of much time with no fulfillment, and no clear expression of His will provided, should that person assume that it is not God's will for him/her and resign him/herself to that? Or should they continue to 'wrestle' with the Lord about it, all the while perhaps gaining faith that it will eventually be fulfilled?

Having ones calling and election made sure most likely won't trump the wisdom of necessary life experience and fulfillment. I don't think any assumption should be made on God's will in this case. It was clear that He wanted to give higher experiences in this regard to the followers of Moses, but they weren't ready. There are more pursuits in my opinion that lead one to the same end. They are doing his work. They are serving and loving and repenting. Continuing to wrestle over this question may not be as important as wrestling with the natural man and pursuing the divine nature.

[justamere10]

I think finding out for one's self whether or not that is our will and/or if it is a righteous desire that also fits into God's will. Consider how many people in the scriptures wrestled with God and angels--Cornelius in the NT, Jacob in the OT, Enos and Alma in the BoM, etc.

...

I tend to agree with what you say but where is the balance between "resigning" meaning I guess giving up to God's superior will and knowledge regarding what is best for us, and continuing to strive/wrestle for something we really want and do not (yet) know God's will about for us as an individual?

[justamere10]

Having ones calling and election made sure most likely won't trump the wisdom of necessary life experience and fulfillment. I don't think any assumption should be made on God's will in this case. It was clear that He wanted to give higher experiences in this regard to the followers of Moses, but they weren't ready. There are more pursuits in my opinion that lead one to the same end. They are doing his work. They are serving and loving and repenting. Continuing to wrestle over this question may not be as important as wrestling with the natural man and pursuing the divine nature.

Right, I was only using that as an example. There are actually some possible negatives for having one's calling and election made sure in this life, there were times in my life when I might have turned that down.

Latter-day Saints understand that to sin is to harm our Savior, to cause perhaps another drop of his precious blood to be shed for us. If there is no longer an eternal penalty for sinning (as is the case when one's calling and election is made sure, as I understand it), one might be tempted even more strongly to engage in sin, and if one yields to the temptation, cause harm to our Lord.

[skalenfehl]

I tend to agree with what you say but where is the balance between "resigning" meaning I guess giving up to God's superior will and knowledge regarding what is best for us, and continuing to strive/wrestle for something we really want and do not (yet) know God's will about for us as an individual?

I think we find that answer out as we go along in life doing all that we are called to do. I suppose it really depends on what your desire is. Rhetorical questions: Do you desire a gift of the Spirit beside the one or two or few that you are blessed with according to your patriarchal blessing and/or are you magnifying the gifts that you were given first? Remember the parable of the talents. Or maybe you want your calling and election made sure, which is a tall order. How converted are you? Do you desire to experience the vision of the Tree of Life as Lehi saw it? It isn't an unrighteous desire, but will it change or improve your testimony? Considering all of the above, I believe that the more aligned our will is with God's, meaning that our sole purpose today and tomorrow and the rest of our lives is to serve God in our fullest capacity in the callings that he has given us, the more we are granted according to our own desires as they are already swallowed up in His. I think when we have proven ourselves in this path time and time again, He may be more apt to grant us our desires. Consider the following scriptures:

Hel. 10: 4-5

4 Blessed art thou, Nephi, for those things which thou hast done; for I have beheld how thou hast with unwearyingness declared the word, which I have given unto thee, unto this people. And thou hast not feared them, and hast not sought thine own life, but hast sought my will, and to keep my commandments.

5 And now, because thou hast done this with such unwearyingness, behold, I will bless thee forever; and I will make thee mighty in word and in deed, in faith and in works; yea, even that all things shall be done unto thee according to thy word, for thou shalt not ask that which is contrary to my will.

And

Alma 48: 17-19

17 Yea, verily, verily I say unto you, if all men had been, and were, and ever would be, like unto Moroni, behold, the very powers of hell would have been shaken forever; yea, the devil would never have power over the hearts of the children of men.

18 Behold, he was a man like unto Ammon, the son of Mosiah, yea, and even the other sons of Mosiah, yea, and also Alma and his sons, for they were all men of God.

19 Now behold, Helaman and his brethren were no less serviceable unto the people than was Moroni; for they did preach the word of God, and they did baptize unto repentance all men whosoever would hearken unto their words.

Nephi was given power to seal on earth destructions and famines. Others survived great tribulations and caused mighty miracles. As we study the lives of these great men, we realize that their only desires were to serve God, serve their fellow men for the sake and welfare of their souls and in their works were their own desires fulfilled because their own desires and wills became one with the Lord's. Personally, I believe that, yes, it does mean surrendering your will to His. It's not an easy thing to do but when you let go of the proverbial steering wheel, it's interesting to see where the Lord takes you. That is the ultimate challenge, in my opinion, and it isn't always easy. But it's worth it.

Edited September 22, 2008 by skalenfehl

[justamere10]

I think we find that answer out as we go along in life doing all that we are called to do....

Thank-you for sharing your views, much appreciated.

[MorningStar]

I love it. I like how they call death "the new birth". At my sister's sealing, the man performing the ceremony said that going from the spirit world to earth could be compared to death.

[Hemidakota]

Our desire or goal for this life "is to submit the will to the GOD."

[acostaroad]

Hi. I have been directed to your site on several of my internet searches. I just read of the vision the stake president shared of the spirit world from 1920. I enjoyed it very much. I shared it with my family. I recently lost my 29 year old son in a car accident and feel the need to increase my understanding of where he is and what he is doing. Thanks for having me.

[sister_in_faith]

acostaroad, very sorry to hear about your loss. Thank you for bringing this up, I hadn't seen it before. Good stuff!