Blacks in the priesthood

[August]

Can your prophets make mistakes? For example, could you blame the exclusion of blacks from the priesthood on the racism of previous leaders, or do you believe God wanted to exclude some of his children? As members of a church that today is very welcoming to people of all races, how do you deal with this history?

I'm not trying to use this to question your church, my church has a rather "unfortunate" history towards the Jews and Muslims, I'm really just asking to know how you understand the will of God.

[skalenfehl]

A quick search of past discussions about this same subject:

1. http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/13591-what-promlems-mormons-blacks-1800s.html

The 6th post down has a lot of resources to refer to and study.

2. http://www.lds.net/forums/learn-about-mormon-church/13764-first-black-bishop-delaware.html

3. http://www.lds.net/forums/current-events/12002-30-years-blacks-priesthood.html

which references The LDS Church and the Race Issue | Blacklds.org

4. http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/8919-can-anyone-help-answer-my-question.html

5. http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/6127-blacks-priesthood.html

This should be a good start for now. These past discussions pretty much cover everything. Hope they help you.

[Palerider]

you can also check out......BlackLDS.org

[Wingnut]

Can your prophets make mistakes? For example, could you blame the exclusion of blacks from the priesthood on the racism of previous leaders, or do you believe God wanted to exclude some of his children? As members of a church that today is very welcoming to people of all races, how do you deal with this history?

I'm not trying to use this to question your church, my church has a rather "unfortunate" history towards the Jews and Muslims, I'm really just asking to know how you understand the will of God.

My opinion (disclaimer...this is MY OPINION ONLY, not doctrine) is that yes, the exclusion may have lasted as long as it did because of racism. It's possible. I also think that it may not have happened earlier because the Church doesn't like to do things just because it's popular to do so (i.e., in the middle of the Civil Rights era).

[Heather]

Yes Prophets can and do make mistakes. They can have their own opinions. Look at Moses; how about Paul? I accept both were Prophets, despite their faults and mistakes.

Peter and the other apostles likewise misunderstood the timing of gospel blessings to non-Israelites. Even following a revelation to Peter, many members of the early Christian Church continued to fight about this point and how to implement it—even Peter and Paul had disagreements. Yet, Bible-believing Christians, such as the Latter-day Saints, continue to consider both as prophets. Latter-day Saints are not troubled when prophets have personal opinions which turn out to be incorrect. In the case of the priesthood ban, members of the modern Church accepted the change with more joy and obedience than many first century members accepted the extension of the gospel to the Gentiles without the need for keeping the Mosaic Law. The LDS standard for doctrine is the scriptures, and united statements of the First Presidency and the Twelve.

[Guest ceeboo]

Yes Prophets can and do make mistakes. They can have their own opinions. Look at Moses; how about Paul? I accept both were Prophets, despite their faults and mistakes.

Peter and the other apostles likewise misunderstood the timing of gospel blessings to non-Israelites. Even following a revelation to Peter, many members of the early Christian Church continued to fight about this point and how to implement it—even Peter and Paul had disagreements. Yet, Bible-believing Christians, such as the Latter-day Saints, continue to consider both as prophets. Latter-day Saints are not troubled when prophets have personal opinions which turn out to be incorrect. In the case of the priesthood ban, members of the modern Church accepted the change with more joy and obedience than many first century members accepted the extension of the gospel to the Gentiles without the need for keeping the Mosaic Law. The LDS standard for doctrine is the scriptures, and united statements of the First Presidency and the Twelve.

WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Heather is posting now!!!!!!!!!!!

What gives you the right to post !!!!!!!!! ( HOW ARROGANT )

I am obviously kidding :):)

Pretty neat perspective ( especially from an administrator ):)

Thanks for the contribution

God bless,

Carl

[tubaloth]

Can your prophets make mistakes?

I assume so, they are mortal. But are you talking about making mistakes AS a prophet?

This I think is nearly impossible because of the system the Lord set up. A prophet isn’t just going around making all this decisions by themselves. There is a reason why 12 apostles are called.

For example, could you blame the exclusion of blacks from the priesthood on the racism of previous leaders

No, I think I can blame the acceptance of the decision on racism at the time. It was probably easy to accept given the conditions.

or do you believe God wanted to exclude some of his children?

I believe God is just to all his children, that if God choose to do this, he had reasons beyond what mortals could understand. Blacks not holding the priesthood NEVER kept the Blacks from Gaining full Salvation. It never limited how far the blacks could progress (since that is why we are on this earth). God has “excluded” his children a number of times. We believe the Children of Israel rejected the higher law (and the Higher Melchesidek priesthood). Even then only part of the Children of Israel could hold the priesthood. Do I blame this on some worldly condition at the time?

The same type of thing holds true while Christ was on the earth, he told his apostles to only preach to the Jews. Even today woman don’t hold the priesthood (even though they are set apart for callings) but we don’t seem to question any logic in it. (at least not as much as we do with Blacks and Priesthood). We just accept it that is what God wants it, but when it comes to Blacks and the Priesthood we feel like we can’t accept that.

I'm not trying to use this to question your church

I would have guessed other wise.

Edited October 8, 2008 by tubaloth

[deseretgov]

Well according to what I've read Joseph Smith gave several "black" people the priesthood. But when you at the twelve tribes of isreal only a certain tribe was allowed to have the priesthood; the rest couldn't have it. It doesn't mean God hated or dispised those people, or that they were unworthy, it was just His own reasons. I don't know His reason but I'm sure they are perfect and righteous.

[Wingnut]

Well according to what I've read Joseph Smith gave several "black" people the priesthood.

That is correct...some had it, but I believe it was restricted under Brigham Young.

[countrygirl66]

I am not a learned as the others here, but this is something I have thought a lot about. A couple of things that I have had come to mind over the years that I feel comfortable with is, 1- God has his own reasons for what he does. Only he knows what will be best for us. example why was I born in america and so many others were born in war and destruction. 2- During the civil rights era I do not beleive that all church members could have delivered the lords message in the lords way and with the righteous attitude that he expects. So I think some of that timing may have had something to do with our worthiness as a people. 3- As I understand it at one time the tribe of levi had the priesthood but the others did not. Because it was what the lord saw fit to happen. 4- As far as our history, I do not beleive that it ever had anything to do with the lord not loving all of his children equally. He does know our strengths and weaknesess and what we can overcome. I have wondered if things had been reversed if I would have had the faith that I have seen the people of africa have. I am not so sure that I would have. They seem so happy and so joyous with so little. We are freaking out because of our current financial situation. They seem to live in really tough and unfair circumstances and still find faith and joy in making the best of their circumstances. These are just my opinions and what has felt right to me. thanks

[mnn727]

While this is not official, this sounds right to me.

Blacks and the priesthood

The Priesthood has never been held in bondage. Aaron and his sons weren't allowed to exercise the priesthood until after the children of Israel were free from Egypt and out in the desert for a while. When the nation of Israel was carried away into captivity in Babylon, same thing.

This said, certain groups in modern society have been held in slavery as well. It's not the fault of persons held in slavery, but just the same, the Priesthood cannot be commanded. And, even though the Civil War and related events technically ended slavery in this country, many things didn't change culturally until efforts of the Civil Rights movements in the sixties and seventies. And until all people could regard themselves as free from bondage, they couldn't hold the Priesthood. And now, while efforts continue to advance the rights of all races, we have the responsibility of adhering to the Gospel and using the Priesthood to officiate in the ordinances of that Gospel.

[jadams_4040]

Can your prophets make mistakes? For example, could you blame the exclusion of blacks from the priesthood on the racism of previous leaders, or do you believe God wanted to exclude some of his children? As members of a church that today is very welcoming to people of all races, how do you deal with this history?

I'm not trying to use this to question your church, my church has a rather "unfortunate" history towards the Jews and Muslims, I'm really just asking to know how you understand the will of God.

I dont see much differance in this issue than other biblical predudicial commandments of God.:)

[Wingnut]

While this is not official, this sounds right to me.

Blacks and the priesthood

The Priesthood has never been held in bondage. Aaron and his sons weren't allowed to exercise the priesthood until after the children of Israel were free from Egypt and out in the desert for a while. When the nation of Israel was carried away into captivity in Babylon, same thing.

This said, certain groups in modern society have been held in slavery as well. It's not the fault of persons held in slavery, but just the same, the Priesthood cannot be commanded. And, even though the Civil War and related events technically ended slavery in this country, many things didn't change culturally until efforts of the Civil Rights movements in the sixties and seventies. And until all people could regard themselves as free from bondage, they couldn't hold the Priesthood. And now, while efforts continue to advance the rights of all races, we have the responsibility of adhering to the Gospel and using the Priesthood to officiate in the ordinances of that Gospel.

I'm curious...where did you pull this from? Can you provide your source please? (I'm not arguing, just curious.)

[mnn727]

I'm curious...where did you pull this from? Can you provide your source please? (I'm not arguing, just curious.)

Someone on another message board posted it about 4 years ago. Thats all I know about it, it seemed very profound so I copied and kept it.

[Palerider]

again....you need to see......Why This Web Site :: Blacklds.org

[Hemidakota]

Well according to what I've read Joseph Smith gave several "black" people the priesthood. But when you at the twelve tribes of Israel only a certain tribe was allowed to have the priesthood; the rest couldn't have it. It doesn't mean God hated or despised those people, or that they were unworthy, it was just His own reasons. I don't know His reason but I'm sure they are perfect and righteous.

Agreed. They are our brothers.

As far as Cain decedents in receiving the priesthood under the hands of Joseph, that was prior before receiving revelation [book of Abraham and Book of Moses]. Prophets do make mistakes as Heather pointed out. You find after this, Joseph stop the practice.

[August]

again....you need to see......Why This Web Site :: Blacklds.org

It is actually pretty impressive that these people are such faithful members of the church, especially since I know that some people still think blacks can't even join the LDS church.

[Palerider]

put those people right there with those that think we....don't believe in electricity, we have horns, and we have more than one wife, we had a mercy tunnel from Liverpool England to Salt Lake City, etc

[August]

think...we have horns

I've met people who literaly believe that.

[Palerider]

I've met people who literaly believe that.

I have met and live by people who believe that and some will never change their mind...:)

[AnthonyB]

Did the restriction only effect people of African descent or all dark skinned people? (ie Were Australian aboriginee's included?)

Was there a limit as to percentages of race? Was there a limit as to how far back you had to trace? (ie if the ancestor of colour was 6 gens back did it count?)

[HiJolly]

I have met and live by people who believe that and some will never change their mind...:)

Did you say you live in Utah County?

HiJolly

[Palerider]

Did you say you live in Utah County?

HiJolly

no the Bible Belt.....southern Missouri.......even worse....:D

[Moksha]

The history of Blacks and the Priesthood is like a comedy of errors, except it was a tragedy.

View it for yourself: Blacks and the LDS Priesthood

[mnn727]

Did the restriction only effect people of African descent or all dark skinned people? (ie Were Australian aboriginee's included?)

Only those of African descent. There were many dark skinned Pacific islanders ordained to the Priesthood.

Australian aboriginee's would have been able to be ordained, but I personally have never heard of one converting -- there may be some, I'm just not aware of it.