Prepared to defend yourself?

[Starfish]

I agree with the Constitution in that we have the right to own guns. However, and this is SO IMPORTANT, I urge everyone to become trained in GUN SAFETY. Too many think they know how to handle a gun, because they've watched Clint Eastwood movies.

Also, train your kids! You may not have a gun in your house, but a friend will and boys are drawn to guns like flies to honey. Get your kids (sons especially), and yourself to a high-quality class--it might take several hours--that drills into you how to safely handle a weapon. Someone's life may depend on it.

Talk to your local church youth leaders about arranging a class. I can't stress this enough.

[Misshalfway]

I look pretty scary without my makeup so I am fairly confident I could scare away a midnight intruder. :)

[Elgama]

I look pretty scary without my makeup so I am fairly confident I could scare away a midnight intruder. :)

lol you know that is often on our sketch shows a guy coming in with a gun see's woman in dressing gown and face mask and legs it.

-Charley

[havejoy]

I am one of the people who has a concealed carry license. I have always carried a gun in my car and have shot guns and hunted all my life. I took the concealed carry class thinking I wouldn't learn much but I learned a lot. I recommend it just for the gun safety part.

As far as sharing my food with others in times of need.....I have always figured the 3 month supply was for me and my family and the 12 month supply is so we will have enough to share. I won't allow it to be taken but I will share if asked or if I see a need.

[NeuroTypical]

I agree with the Constitution in that we have the right to own guns. However, and this is SO IMPORTANT, I urge everyone to become trained in GUN SAFETY. Too many think they know how to handle a gun, because they've watched Clint Eastwood movies.

If I could shout this from the rooftops, I would! A gun is not a magic talisman that wards off evil while it sits in it's box in the closet. It a specialized tool like a fancy nail gun or metal lathe. If you can't figure out how to work a metal lathe just by looking at it, don't assume you know how to work a gun just because you have one.

Should you ever need to actually use a gun to defend yourself or someone else, you WILL NOT rise to the occasion. You will fall back on your training and mindset.

Also, train your kids! You may not have a gun in your house, but a friend will and boys are drawn to guns like flies to honey.

Dang - I wish there was a way to thank a post twice. The first time I got shot in the face, we were dinking around with a friend's bb gun. Fortunately, it just bounced off my cheek and left a little bloody mark that healed quickly. Bythe time my friends and I were 10 years old, we knew the location of every single gun our parents owned - and we played with them quite a bit. Lucky we didn't shoot ourselves. Some kids do, and some kids die.

If you figure you need a gun, please take Starfish's advice.

LM

[Starfish]

Thanks, Loudmouth. Too add to that, it is never worth using a gun to defend property, because of the inevitable lawsuits. It will cost you more than the property is worth---sad, but true.

You ONLY use a gun to defend a life. You gotta know the laws, to protect yourself. Get educated!

[merlin419]

I can only talk from experience here. I had to draw a pistol once to defend my mother and sister in our home after an earthquake. No power, phones, electricity, cell phones were still decades in the future. 50 yards from my house was the emergency command post of the Los Angeles Police Department with over 2 dozen officers on duty and still an idiot tried to rob our house. He froze and my mother screamed out the front window and officers came running. I'm not sure if I would of shot him but it stopped and we did not have to find out. Now if neighbors are starving I keep extra in the living room area in white buckets. I have wrestled with the question "Am I my brothers keeper?" and stock some for just that purpose. That bucket of food may be the bolt of lightning that gets them to let Jesus final speak to them....I hope I made sense here. I would rather be an instrument to aid in them being saved than arbitrarily execute them.

[jimuk]

I am glad this topic got back nicely on track, the way i am sure it was meant to go in the first place.

Thank you

[YoungMormonRoyalist]

Firstly in the UK we are not citizens we have a monarchy - we are subjects a fact I am very proud of - secondly people in the UK can own guns outside of handgun ban its not much stricter than some US states and I can look out my window and see several houses I know own guns.

Actually knife crime is still a much bigger problem in the UK than gun crime as gun crime is restricted to parts of the major cities, and within that most that get shot are those with guns anyone else is major news which distorts things. The major gun crime came in from other countries with gangs, and forced the police to be better armed which is in turn creating better armed criminals. Our armed officers are still much better armed and much better trained than in the US, because it is specialised. So no I think events are showing my Uncle was correct, he was a Churchill scholar officer so had knowledge of US policing and was a top police officer in anti corruption in Hong Kong. Had they better armed police in his day gun crime now would be much worse now than it is.

In my area one person has been shot in the last hundred years - no police officers have been killed

And the UK has yet to have a single school shooting.

-Charley

God save the Queen.

When the proverbial poop hits the fan I'm prepared for the Bishop to say "Now is the time to prepare to live the law of consecration. We need your years supply to distribute to those who need it."

[amightyfortress]

Ok, perhaps my geography knowledge is lacking. Isn't Scotland part of the UK? I know when I drove from London to Edzell Scotland, I did not go through any checkpoints or customs checks.

Again, I only know what I read. Is this wrong? From http://www.davekopel.org/2a/Foreign/The-Gold-Standard-of-Gun-Control.htm:

This website lists two shootings at UK schools, another attack with a machete, a stabbing, and a flamethrower attack.

List of school-related attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Clearly teen on teen violence, at school and away from school, is a big problem even in the UK:

gang stabbing UK - Google Search

While the first link above and the videos I posted previously indicate that gun violence in the UK is actually up 40% since the handgun ban, that last link shows that even without guns, criminals are criminals. Sociopaths simply change weapons. UK has had to, of all crazy things, ban machetes, ban Samurai swords (as if the type of sword makes a sword more or less a weapon), ban pocket knives, and soon you'll be tearing your meat apart in your kitchen with your hands and teeth like a caveman because they will have to ban kitchen knives. Eventually, they will have to ban tools altogether and you can live like cavemen because any and nearly every tool made since cavemen can be and has been used as a weapon. Outlawing every offensive weapon only ensures that only the outlaws have weapons. Oh, and the government. They, of course, are more worth defending than either you or me.

Hands can be used to strangle people. Off with their hands!

[jimuk]

Ok, perhaps my geography knowledge is lacking. Isn't Scotland part of the UK? I know when I drove from London to Edzell Scotland, I did not go through any checkpoints or customs checks.

Again, I only know what I read. Is this wrong? From http://www.davekopel.org/2a/Foreign/The-Gold-Standard-of-Gun-Control.htm:

This website lists two shootings at UK schools, another attack with a machete, a stabbing, and a flamethrower attack.

List of school-related attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Clearly teen on teen violence, at school and away from school, is a big problem even in the UK:

gang stabbing UK - Google Search

While the first link above and the videos I posted previously indicate that gun violence in the UK is actually up 40% since the handgun ban, that last link shows that even without guns, criminals are criminals. Sociopaths simply change weapons. UK has had to, of all crazy things, ban machetes, ban Samurai swords (as if the type of sword makes a sword more or less a weapon), ban pocket knives, and soon you'll be tearing your meat apart in your kitchen with your hands and teeth like a caveman because they will have to ban kitchen knives. Eventually, they will have to ban tools altogether and you can live like cavemen because any and nearly every tool made since cavemen can be and has been used as a weapon. Outlawing every offensive weapon only ensures that only the outlaws have weapons. Oh, and the government. They, of course, are more worth defending than either you or me.

Hi there dalpres, just quickie to remind you that the Uk is not a country, it is made up of four different countries, England, (where i am from), Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales, each is run by their own elected Governments.

But you do probably know this anyway.

[YoungMormonRoyalist]

Well technically the United Kingdom is a unitary state consisting of four countries: England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales. It is governed by a parliamentary system with its seat of government in London, the capital, but with three devolved national administrations in Belfast, Cardiff and Edinburgh, the capitals of Northern Ireland, Wales and Scotland respectively.

Sorry to get all technical. It is a sovereign state, but with four seats of government in it.

[rameumptom]

God save the Queen and all of those wonderful dukes, counts, lords, and barons.....

[dalepres]

Hi there dalpres, just quickie to remind you that the Uk is not a country, it is made up of four different countries, England, (where i am from), Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales, each is run by their own elected Governments.

But you do probably know this anyway.

Yes, but my reference to school shootings in the UK was in response to this statement from a citizen..., er... subject of the UK:

And the UK has yet to have a single school shooting.

[Guest DeborahC]

Yes, I DO own guns, both for hunting and for self-defense.

If another big depression comes and there are people looking for food, how long do you think it will take them to figure out that LDS folks have a years' supply in their homes?

I'd say if you plan on using that year's supply, you better be able to defend it.

That's my 2 cents!

[YoungMormonRoyalist]

Why are you arguing about what kind of government the UK is again?

[NeuroTypical]

Our current poll results are 62.5% yes, 37.5% no. I must admit, I didn't know so many of you were prepared to defend yourselves! Tomorrow, my wife goes to an 8 hour Personal Protection class given by a guy who works very closely with our local town police force.

A few scriptures on the subject:

"We believe that men should appeal to the civil law for redress of all wrongs and grievances, where personal abuse is inflicted or the right of property or character infringed, where such laws exist as will protect the same; but we believe that all men are justified in defending themselves, their friends, and property, and the government, from the unlawful assaults and encroachments of all persons in times of exigency, where immediate appeal cannot be made to the laws, and relief afforded." Doctrine and Covenants 134:11

"Now the Nephites were taught to defend themselves against their enemies, even to the shedding of blood if it were necessary; yea, and they were also taught never to give an offense, yea, and never to raise the sword except it were against an enemy, except it were to preserve their lives." Alma 48:14

"And also, that God would make it known unto them whither they should go to defend themselves against their enemies, and by so doing, the Lord would deliver them; and this was the faith of Moroni, and his heart did glory in it; not in the shedding of blood but in doing good, in preserving his people, yea, in keeping the commandments of God, yea, and resisting iniquity." Alma 48:16

"And again, the Lord has said that: Ye shall defend your families even unto bloodshed. Therefore for this cause were the Nephites contending with the Lamanites, to defend themselves, and their families, and their lands, their country, and their rights, and their religion." Alma 43:47

"Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luke 22:36

Here are a few quotes from church leaders on the subject. Except for this next one by President Benson, these were mostly made during the wild frontier days, and you don't really hear our leaders saying such things any more, so decide what you will.

"Not only should we have strong spiritual homes, but we should have strong temporal homes. We should avoid bondage by getting out of debt as soon as we can, pay as we go, and live within our incomes. There is wisdom in having on hand a year's supply of food, clothing, fuel (if possible), and in being preparing to defend our families and our possessions and to take care of ourselves. I believe a man should prepare for the worst while working for the best."

Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p. 263-264. (1st edition 1988)

"As for this people fostering to themselves that the day has come for them to sell their guns and ammunition to their enemies, and sit down to sleep in peace, they will find themselves deceived and before they know, they will sleep until they are slain. They have got to carry weapons with them, to be ready to send their enemy to hell cross lots, whether they be Lamanites or mobs who may come to take their lives, or destroy their property. We must be prepared that they dare not come to us in a hostile manner without being assured they will meet a vigorous resistance and ten to one they will meet their grave."

Journal of Discourses, Brigham Young, Vol 1, P . 171 - 172, July 31, 1853

"We all believe that the Lord will fight our battles; but how? Will He do it while we are unconcerned and make no effort whatever for our own safety when an enemy is upon us? If we make no effort to guard our towns, our houses, our cities, our wives and children, will the Lord guard them for us? He will not; but if we pursue the opposite course and strive to help Him to accomplish His designs, then will He fight our battles. We are baptized for the remission of sins; but it would be quite as unreasonable to expect a remission of sins without baptism, as to expect the Lord to fight our battles without our taking every precaution to be prepared to defend ourselves. The Lord requires us to be quite as willing to fight our own battles as to have Him fight them for us. If we are not ready for an enemy when he comes upon us, we have not lived up to the requirements of Him who guides the ship of Zion, or who dictates the affairs of his kingdom."

Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 11, p. 131, August 1-10, 1865.

"There is one principle which is eternal; it is the duty of all men to protect their lives and the lives of the household, whenever necessity requires, and no power has the right to forbid it, should the last extreme arrive, but I anticipate no such extreme, but caution is the parent of safety."

Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Section Six, 1843-44, p. 391.

Enjoy!

LM

Edited October 24, 2008 by Loudmouth_Mormon

[Hemidakota]

Simple question. Whether you consider a gun relevant for preparadness or not, I'm interested.

My answer: Yes. And in a week or two, my wife will be taking a personal protection class offered by our local law enforcement folks that fill her training requirements to carry legally.

We told from the beginnings of the church always be prepared.

[dalepres]

Sort of sums it all up nicely, Loudmouth_Mormon.

[JohnBirchSociety]

Simple question. Whether you consider a gun relevant for preparadness or not, I'm interested.

My answer: Yes. And in a week or two, my wife will be taking a personal protection class offered by our local law enforcement folks that fill her training requirements to carry legally.

It is interesting to note that probably the most efficient Martial Art (in terms of its' scientific application) is American Kenpo Karate.

It was created by Edmund K. Parker, Sr., a devout LDS member:

Ed Parker - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Probably Mr. Parker's best surviving student is Dr. Ron Chap'el, Phd., from Los Angeles. Mr. Chap'el has a Phd., in Kinesiology from UCLA, and is the finest Martial Artist I've ever seen, having studied / observed the art's for over 30 years.

Much of what Bruce Lee became was because of his close friendship and interaction with Mr. Parker.

Anyways, for those who cannot carry a gun, like most of California, it is a fine option, both for physical fitness, and to be a part of Mormon secular history.

[piper]

My personal philosophy in this regard goes back to the D&C 6:36. If ye are prepared ye shall not fear. We need to prepare every needful thing. To me, this means physically, mentally emotionally and spiritually. So as many have pointed out, we need to have storage food and supplies other than foods. We also need to plan for shelter and support emotionally and be prepared spiritually so we can receive that type of help from God.

Specifically as regarding this thread. I do own firearms and know well how to use each of them. I have no desire to take any human life. In fact, I hold all life sacred and do not take any life lightly. Mosquitos are as close as I can get to feeling satisfaction at killing something :) and even they are simply being what God made them to be.

It has been my experience, however, that if the infrastucture of a society fails, it is very easy for people to take advantage of having no law. They can become brutal and vicious without thought for anyone else. Alternatively, those that have established a separate infrastructure (as in a community, church, neighborhood etc. Hold together and hold tight to their values and can stand strong together. To stand alone in such an environment is to invite almost certain destruction.

Will those who hold together to protect their community be able to defend themselves against maraudors seeking to take and destroy? I would say much better than those alone. Especially if all in the community are trained to help in the defense. I believe it is too late to shut the barn door after the horse has already run off. I firmly believe that we must prepare now in all ways including how to plant gardens, use our food storage, hold tight to each other and God and yes, the use of firearms as well. I hope we never actually have to use all the skills in such an environment, and I feel just being prepared in all ways will help our association as communities, friends and neighbors even if we never get faced with the worst case scenario. A bit long, but thanks for letting me say it.

[BenRaines]

There is a great set of fictional books that discuss those who prepare and are prepared to defend themselves after government fails.

Out of the Ashes, William Johnstone

Ben Raines

[Maya]

We got a few. Need to teach the kids soon... I dont think I could handle one either...

[Guest DeborahC]

The other reason (besides protecting yourself and your food) to have a gun, bow, snares, or other weapon is to be able to hunt food in case things go REALLY south!

[BenRaines]

I bet it would be a good idea to hunt a few times before it gets Really Bad so that you can hit what you aim at. It is not as easy as Duck Hunt on the Nintendo. :)

Ben Raines