LDS apostle's impromptu warning circles the globe

[MrNirom]

So.. what do you think?

LDS Apostle's impromptu warning circles the globe - Salt Lake Tribune

Transcribed speech by ward member

LDS Apostle's Impromptu Warning Circles the Globe

By Peggy Fletcher Stack

The Salt Lake Tribune

Article Last Updated: 11/01/2008 08:34:01 AM MDT

Apostle Boyd K. Packer on Oct. 12 gave an impromptu speech in his Sandy ward, taking the entire meeting to tell stories of his childhood during the Great Depression and to warn Mormons in attendance of troubled times, saying they are God's way of humbling the faithful.

"It's about time the Lord taught us a lesson," Packer, president of the LDS Quorum of Twelve Apostles, is said to have warned. "A great catastrophe is coming. . . That's what it will take to turn our hearts to the Lord. And we will learn from it. Our prayers will be different, less selfish."

The impact was electric.

A member of the congregation claimed to transcribe the speech and sent it to friends and family members on the Internet. Soon thousands of Mormons had forwarded it to everyone they knew from Alabama to Australia. Various versions circled the globe. People mentioned it at church in whispered tones.

The apostle's office at LDS Church headquarters in downtown Salt Lake City received so many queries about the speech that a secretary recorded a message, repeating that "the report of his talk is not accurate," and urged members to follow the LDS First Presidency's 2004 advice never to distribute notes of a General Authority's speech without authorization.

Kim Farah, an LDS church spokeswoman, had no comment, saying the recorded voice message will be the church's only response.

Cris Robinson, a Utah County member of the Mormon apologist group FAIR, reports on the organization's Web site a conversation with LDS Public Affairs that confirmed Packer spoke but cautioned that the purported transcript circulating "should not be considered to be authoritative."

Julie M. Smith, an LDS institute teacher and blogger in Austin, Texas, notes a few reasons why members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints were so eager to spread Packer's comments to others in the faith.

"People are scared to death about the financial crisis," says Smith, who received two copies of the speech and heard it mentioned during a Sunday school class. "They are desperate for a revelation that will help them navigate through our treacherous times."

Plus, the fact that Packer wasn't scheduled to speak made members feel that they were getting something "special and important and inspired, as opposed to a 'regular' General Conference talk . . . and they feel special and important when they make it known to others," Smith said. "People really gravitate toward the idea of 'secret teachings.' It is a weakness, one that I've seen in myself and one that we need to be more aware of. There is some spiritual immaturity there."

Beyond that, Smith, who posted a discussion of Packer's speech at timesandseasons.org, sees wisdom in the First Presidency's instructions not to pass along notes from a local conference.

"The scariest thing is that people just don't seem to realize how dangerous spreading this type of thing is," Smith said, "not only is there the potential to spread false doctrine, but even if you have a 100 percent accurate transcript, you have taken away the right of a General Authority to speak specifically to a local group about their circumstances in a way that might not be applicable to other areas of the world."

Edited November 2, 2008 by MrNirom
Update Links

[pam]

I read that in the paper today also.

[Tamrajh]

awww. I read the article and, I guess I am one of the spiritually immature because I did feel special and enlightened. As though I had been able to see something out of the ordinary and been given a little extra guidance.

Maybe I should go back to the conference talks and look for my guidance there, like we're all supposed to do. Pay your tithing, attend church and the temple, love one another, get out of debt, build up your food storage, etc. These are the things of extra guidance we have been given over the years. I'm not sure why i was excited to think I had gotten a little extra suddenly when I know the rest of what we've been given is all I really need.

Glad you found, and posted the article. Thanks!

[MormonGirl02]

People should not have recorded this and sent it around to other people. Of course, some of them probably didn't know any better. But as the article says, it can be dangerous in that it can spread false doctrine.

[MrNirom]

I can understand why they would not want this spread around the world.

What happens if the catastrophe happened just in Salt Lake City? Say a major earthquake?

Then the rest of the world might be worrying for nothing.

But... it would show the world that an Apostle has the gift of being a seer. And maybe if this does happen.. it gives the world the idea that if God is displeased.. then the events that have transpired in the past both in the Bible and Book of Mormon.... shows that God is no respecter of persons.

Even his chosen can be chastised.

[john doe]

I read the supposed transctript. It contains no new information or counsel that we haven't been given for the last 50 years. Or more.

[MrNirom]

I read the supposed transctript. It contains no new information or counsel that we haven't been given for the last 50 years. Or more.

I agree.. except the prediction of a great catastrophe.

[prisonchaplain]

Question: Regardless of the appropriateness of recording and transmitting the talk (or redigested version of the speech), for those in attendance, would the warnings given be considered prophetic--words directly from God?

[pam]

I just find it amazing that an alleged statement made in a local ward would cause fear among members. As John Doe stated..we've been warned for years and years...why does it strike fear now? The only reason I can think of is because of the economic problems. NOW people are starting to see what we have been taught for so long.

[pam]

Question: Regardless of the appropriateness of recording and transmitting the talk (or redigested version of the speech), for those in attendance, would the warnings given be considered prophetic--words directly from God?

No in my opinion. In this instance I believe he was speaking from opinion. Basing his statements on again..things we have been taught for years. But then..just my opinion.

[Kirajo]

" A catastrophe is coming"......doesn't sound amazingly NEW or anything to me. I've alwasy figured it was inevitable that something big was coming soon. I think I would have read or heard that and thought " mmhm." hahah....shoot.

[Elgama]

I believe he said something similar as it is very similar to a talk given at Stake Conference in Aberdeen by Jeffrey R Holland, I have been dying to share what he said with people as it did include some new stuff, but to do so would be not to follow the prophet, we have been asked not to. I am willing to bet people looking for guidance are getting advice from their Stake Presidents and Branch Presidents - I know our Stake's advice is to at this time bring our families closer together and do Family Home Evening, Family Prayer and Family Scripture Study.

-Charley

[MrNirom]

Question: would the warnings given be considered prophetic--words directly from God?

Would the words spoken by John the Baptist in his preaching repentance be considered prophetic--words directly from God?

We take letters (epistles) written from men in the past and adorn them now as scripture by putting these letters together in a book and calling them "the word of God". Were their words directly from God?

Who is to say they are not? Yet we say they are.

If the prophetic words come to pass.. do we give God the credit? Or do we pass it off as nothing more than that which any intuitive person who reads the newspapers and keeps up with the predictions of the experts would and could prophesy? Just another trick up the ole sleeve?

I suppose.. that is where faith comes in. Those who believe... will.. and those who don't.. still won't.

Thank the Lord that stoning with words is all people can do these days... and get away with it.

[Prodigal_Son]

Hahahaha... The Mormon Rumor Mill is alive and well... Some things never change... :lol:

[MrNirom]

Hahahaha... The Mormon Rumor Mill is alive and well... Some things never change... :lol:

Which rumor do you speak of?

[Prodigal_Son]

Which rumor do you speak of?

Just the concept of taking some snippet (perhaps of out context) and having it circle the globe a couple times in a NY minute...

[MrNirom]

Just the concept of taking some snippet (perhaps of out context) and having it circle the globe a couple times in a NY minute...

Ahh... ok.

[Elphaba]

I think it is wrong to keep blaming the members for spreading the particulars of a talk given by a general authority in an impromptu setting. It is not their fault the speaker chose to make incinderay comments in what he should have known is an inappropriate setting.

Surely Elder Packer had to have suspected his frightening words of an impending catastrophe would have a strong impact on the members.

And of course the members are going to talk about it, including to other members of the Church. After all, it was Elder PACKER who said it. And after all, he was literally talking about a "catastrophe." Who is not going to talk about that?

I think Elder Packer is the one at blame here. Obviously his comments were going to create a stir, and for him to think the members would keep it among themselves is not realistic.

I also think it is a stretch to conclude a member just happened to have the tools necessary to transcribe Elder Packer's talk, unless he/she knew about it beforehand. Unless the person knew shorthand, or some other speed writing tool, it is impossible to write his words down verbatim. The exception would be if a member recorded the talk, but that indicates foreknowledge of Elder Packer's talk.

I am not saying the counsel to not spread the talk around is wrong, but I do think members should not be blamed when it happens. I think Elder Packer is the one at fault in this particular incident.

Elphaba

Edited November 2, 2008 by Elphaba

[aruth5000]

" A catastrophe is coming"......doesn't sound amazingly NEW or anything to me. I've alwasy figured it was inevitable that something big was coming soon. I think I would have read or heard that and thought " mmhm." hahah....shoot.

my thoughts exactly

[Elgama]

I think it is wrong to keep blaming the members for spreading the particulars of a talk given by a general authority in an impromptu setting. It is not their fault the speaker chose to make incinderay comments in what he should have known is an inappropriate setting.

Surely Elder Packer had to have suspected his frightening words of an impending catastrophe would have a strong impact on the members...... I am not saying the counsel to not spread the talk around is wrong, but I do think members should not be blamed when it happens. I think Elder Packer is the one at fault in this particular incident.

Elphaba

Its not often we completely disagree lol

As I know he is not the only apostle to have spoken this way in past year I am guessing more have - yet his is the only one circulating like this. The talk given by Elder Holland in our stake was the most powerful and spiritual talk it followed up Henry B Eyrrings Living Church one in General conference that gave me my testimoney back very strongly/ The majority of members accept the direction of the prophet not to. It is clearly not direction that is meant for the world at present but just for members at local level and I also suspect each one is tailored for us in our individual stakes.

We have been taught that circulating it is wrong, by our prophet and have very specific and clear counsel on the matter. What I find interesting is the friends most likely to send me this talk are the one's most likely me to accuse me of not being behind the prophet because I don't like the propaganda over prop 8 and I have socialist ideals. The rest have not circulated it.

-Charley

[rockwoodchev]

So....

He gave a talk that he has since recounted, the church as said is incorrect and it has breezed the fan of controversy world wide.

During the talk, he told the Bishop of his own ward to never plan an activity that cost as much money as one taken in the ward the previous summer.

In my mind the Bishop would now be at will to plan an expensive trip. He was told not to by a GA, and the in the news paper, the instructions were re-counted. I think the Bishop now has free reign to ignore the advice given him by a member of his ward. Should take some of the heat off the planning committee for next year.

[john doe]

I agree.. except the prediction of a great catastrophe.

Maybe you just haven't been paying attention. Catastrophes have been prophesied for generations. I was at a leadership meeting with Pres. Hinckley where he said big things are coming. This was 5-6 years ago. In general conference they are always telling to be prepared, and what we can do to be prepared.

[john doe]

Question: Regardless of the appropriateness of recording and transmitting the talk (or redigested version of the speech), for those in attendance, would the warnings given be considered prophetic--words directly from God?

Given the setting, and his (as well as the LDS Church's) reluctance to issue an official statement, I would consider them to be great advice from a man who receives daily guidance for the church directly from God and Jesus. You could call it prophetic, but I fail to see the difference between what he said and what has been told to the church for years.

[pam]

I look at things like the huge tsunami that occurred. Killed hundreds of thousands of people. That was pretty catastrophic. Just my opinion of course...but I think something like that is only the beginning of what we will see as far as catastrophic things to come.

[Fiannan]

Okay, just to put this into perspective -- a couple of irresponsible mortgage lenders go belly up and the only thing that sames them is the taxpayers forking over nearly a trillion dollars. That's okay though, it's doubtful China will demand its money back very soon. The ripple effect is worldwide in case people have not noticed. And more is to come, a lot more.

Then there is still the terrorist threat. A terrorist group merely has to get their hands on a nuke and evaporate a major city like London or New York and then what do you think the outcome will be? Then again, if they have medical expertise they only have to go into an area like Canada or Alaska, dig up a frozen victimn of smallpox and cultivate the virus and welcome to a repeat of Africans and Europeans meet Indians and pass on microbes. The effect would be catastrophic since nobody except active duty military personell in several nations have been vacinated.

Then there's mother nature without human aid.

The potentials are there and we should not fear -- but should always be prepared.