Food storage and anti-hoarding laws during "national emergencies"

[james1verse12]

I'm not in the LDS Church, but my fiancee and I are planning on putting together a food storage supply of at least a year's worth of food for the two of us and her daughter after we get married in March. I've already started with this on my own and have about six months worth of food for myself. What I'd like to know is whether there are any concerns that have been discussed among LDS members on any anti-hoarding laws by state or federal governments that would result in confiscation of "excessive" food in the event of a declared "national emergency." I don't see how the confiscation of food acquired prior to any such directives would be legal, but I'm not a legal expert. But regardless, since food storage is a big thing for LDS Church members, what do you all know about potential problems with confiscation if things get bad and laws are passed to ban hoarding of food?

[a-train]

The Fourth Amendement to the Constitution of the United States says:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

You have the right to remain private and use the fifth amendment also. You have your rights. Act wisely.

-a-train

[BenRaines]

Is anyone anticipating a house to house search and the question "Are you Mormon? Where is your food storage?" I for one am not. If there is such a national emergency there will be no police force and military will be in disarray. Remember Katrina. Policemen all went home to take care of their own families.

Ben Raines

[james1verse12]

The Fourth Amendement to the Constitution of the United States says:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

You have the right to remain private and use the fifth amendment also. You have your rights. Act wisely.

-a-train

Is anyone anticipating a house to house search and the question "Are you Mormon? Where is your food storage?" I for one am not. If there is such a national emergency there will be no police force and military will be in disarray. Remember Katrina. Policemen all went home to take care of their own families.

Ben Raines

The past 7+ years have nothing to do with the Constitution...I'm a Republican who didn't vote for George W. Bush either time and detest what he's done to rights in this country, but that another thread. My concern is various executive orders that would allow the executive branch to override the Constitution. Check out EO 10998:

executive order 10998 - Google Search

Besides that, if a "national emergency" is declared and FEMA takes over control of the government until further notice, the Constitution is in effect overridden by FEMA and by executive orders:

FEMA Concentration and Internment Camps

So back to my original question, has the issue of anti-hoarding laws come up much if at all in LDS circles?

[pam]

I just went to both links. In your first link it describes how this function would get turned over to the Department of Agriculture. Food sources to me mean farms, places where food is canned, packed and prepared. I don't see where it means they would be going into individual homes and seizing food storage. Honestly I'm more worried about people knowing I'm LDS and that I probably have food storage than I am in any governmental action.

The second link appears to be nothing more than propaganda and the author's own perception.

[james1verse12]

I just went to both links. In your first link it describes how this function would get turned over to the Department of Agriculture. Food sources to me mean farms, places where food is canned, packed and prepared. I don't see where it means they would be going into individual homes and seizing food storage. Honestly I'm more worried about people knowing I'm LDS and that I probably have food storage than I am in any governmental action.

The second link appears to be nothing more than propaganda and the author's own perception.

Look past some of the more sinister-looking bits on the second link and just reference the list of executive orders, which can be Googled. Those executive order summaries seem to correspond to information on sites that have less hype. Regardless, my concern is what food sources or hoards the feds might try to commandeer under the guise of a national emergency, and since LDS members specifically and a lot of the rest of us in general try to keep many months worth of food on hand, that's why I'm trying to get a feel for what executive orders are out there that some jackboots might interpret as making it illegal to have a lot of food in personal storage. That's what I'm trying to figure out.

[pam]

I would agree with you in that there will be many who will attempt to justify their own personal interpretation of the laws and orders. That in itself is scary. Those that many would think to hold positions of authority but do not. In times of national or world emergency, laws will be thrown out the window.

Call me naive or whatever. I have always been taught (been a member my entire life) that if I have done everything I can to be prepared I will be taken care of. If I have followed the Lord's and the Prophet's council in being prepared, I will be taken care of. I certainly don't advertise to the world that I have food storage. But I feel that we, as LDS, will be targeted because the World is learning that the concept of food storage and preparedness is important to us as members.

I certainly understand your concern and your attempt to learn all you can about the potential for this happening. Do I worry about these things? Darn right I do. But again I believe in doing all I can to follow the teachings of our Church leaders and the Lord will provide.

[pam]

Let me add one thing here. In an emergency whether it be worldwide or nationally, there will be many that will form their own interpretation to the order mentioned in your first link. While it does not give authority to take foodstuffs from individual people, there will be many in "authority" who will twist the words to mean just that.

[foodstr2]

Government no longer follows the Constitution, so there's no protection in the Amendments.

Dumbed-down Americans have elected our first Marxist president ... who *will* wreck the economy and redistribute the wealth, which will likely include your food storage in time of emergency.

Hunker down. America's CHANGING, just like he promised.

[NeuroTypical]

Hi J1V12,

I think you might be very well served by joining us at the Got Lamp Oil forums. We have several non-LDS posters.

LM

[a-train]

The issue comes down to enforceability. Do we really think that the federal government, even working through local government agencies can go house to house seizing food? Do we give them so much credit that they would actually be able to get it all?

What indication does the drug war give us concerning this matter. Is there some great shortage of marijuana or cocaine in the United States? Such drastic measures as a war against a black food market would only encourage support for such a market even among the most patriotic individuals. Much of the consumption of the food would be done illegally by law enforcement and those connected behind the scenes thereto.

Have some faith in freedom and its unstoppable force, the force of God.

-a-train

[TheyCallMeMom]

The Fourth Amendement to the Constitution of the United States says:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

You have the right to remain private and use the fifth amendment also. You have your rights. Act wisely.

-a-train

to add to this comment

we also have the second amendment as well.. at least as of today we do.. I know many people, members and non members who also stockpile ammunition

[dalepres]

Is anyone anticipating a house to house search and the question "Are you Mormon? Where is your food storage?" I for one am not. If there is such a national emergency there will be no police force and military will be in disarray. Remember Katrina. Policemen all went home to take care of their own families.

Ben Raines

And the National Guard and police from other areas came in to do the house to house searches.

Don't count on your food storage for a nationwide emergency. But it is awfully useful if you become unemployed so keep it up no matter what.

[Hemidakota]

I'm not in the LDS Church, but my fiancee and I are planning on putting together a food storage supply of at least a year's worth of food for the two of us and her daughter after we get married in March. I've already started with this on my own and have about six months worth of food for myself. What I'd like to know is whether there are any concerns that have been discussed among LDS members on any anti-hoarding laws by state or federal governments that would result in confiscation of "excessive" food in the event of a declared "national emergency." I don't see how the confiscation of food acquired prior to any such directives would be legal, but I'm not a legal expert. But regardless, since food storage is a big thing for LDS Church members, what do you all know about potential problems with confiscation if things get bad and laws are passed to ban hoarding of food?

Do it anyway....

[BenRaines]

What house to house searches? During and post Katrina? They were looking for bodies and survivors. If this were a nationwide problem where will they come from? Other countries? If we have a national problem I doubt that the rest of the world will be in a better situation.

There is a much greater level of poverty and famine in most other parts of the world that there are in the US. If there is this global economic disaster that some are saying will happen this is still the place I want to be. I know how to grow food and have enough until I can grow some to replace it and know how to store what I grow.

Ben Raines

[a-train]

There will be no global economic disaster. It will be contained to the U.S. This will be very good for countries like China which will see a tremendous increase in the average standard of living while our standard of living decreases. Read Thomas Friedman and Peter Schiff for some good information on the subject.

-a-train

[kemct]

There is a WWI precedent on hoarding;

Navy Man indicted for Food Hoarding 1918 / Charleston Voice

[hankpac]

Buy the food, store it properly, institute an inventory and rotation plan, and KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT.

If you tell everyone what you are doing, it becomes everyone's business. Not only the so called "authorities" but also any two legged animal who decides that stuff would be better in his belly than yours.

Just do it, don't talk about it. Period.

[amightyfortress]

Store 360 days worth of food (a fews days short of a year). Then when someone asks you about LDS storing a one year supply of food you can truthfully answer that the church says you should have a one year supply of food, but you don't follow that teaching.

[AngelLynn]

My own father worries about the fact that people may come in and confiscate the food. We don't have a lot of storage on us due to the fact my family isn't rich and can't afford to store a whole year's worth of food. My mom does store a bit to have on hand. But something that also needs to be worried about is food allergies. My youngest brother can't eat wheat, nor can he have milk products. All the food produced at the Bishop's storehouse is mostly milk and wheat based. Now that's a slight problem with him. And gluten free foods, and non dairy foods are expensive as they are prepared in mind for no cross contamination of ingredents that do have wheat or milk in things. We just spent almost $46 today at Whole foods for gluten free pasta, crackers, and various foods that he can eat. But that's a subject for another threat somewhat.

[amightyfortress]

My own father worries about the fact that people may come in and confiscate the food. We don't have a lot of storage on us due to the fact my family isn't rich and can't afford to store a whole year's worth of food. My mom does store a bit to have on hand. But something that also needs to be worried about is food allergies. My youngest brother can't eat wheat, nor can he have milk products. All the food produced at the Bishop's storehouse is mostly milk and wheat based. Now that's a slight problem with him. And gluten free foods, and non dairy foods are expensive as they are prepared in mind for no cross contamination of ingredents that do have wheat or milk in things. We just spent almost $46 today at Whole foods for gluten free pasta, crackers, and various foods that he can eat. But that's a subject for another threat somewhat.

Stockpile rice. I've never heard of anyone being allergic to rice. White rice lasts decades if stored properly. (Brown rice will go rancid in six months to a year). So you can have brown rice for the short term... and some white rice for the long term.

[Guest Alana]

I wonder if anti hoarding laws are aimed at preventing people from stocking up right before or during an emergency. When we have our food storage 'programs' in our own homes, keeping things up on rotation, this isn't taking that food out of anyone elses carts at the grocery store.

Edited January 14, 2009 by Alana

[minuet]

My non-LDS neighbor told me she has stopped using credit and debit cards to purchase her food, so it can't be tracked. She uses only cash. Good idea I think, especially if you're buying in bulk and spending a lot of money.

[GlockGirl]

What house to house searches? During and post Katrina? They were looking for bodies and survivors. Ben Raines

And confiscating guns from law-abiding citizens. While citizens Corn Flakes might have been safe from the .gov this time, many people lost their supplies to looters after forced removal of a means to defend themselves and their property.

To the original poster: I would prepare anyway and keep quiet about it. I think your concerns are valid and you are not alone in them.

[NeuroTypical]

I recently finished 2 days of govt training in how to properly conduct these house to house searches. It has absolutely nothing to do with confiscation. It was all about rescuing people and preventing additional damage. Those big X's on the front of the house are to protect the searchers and communicate to following groups about the scope of the search, actions taken (like utilities turned off), and things found (like bodies or viscious dogs).

LM