Advice?

[ruthiechan]

MOE: I felt the Spirit confirm the truthfulness of your first post.

Lets make something very clear here...when a person is baptized into the community of GOD, ALL SINS, I mean ALL SINS, are wiped clean. There is one exception to this baptismal doctrine and that is murder. Murderers are not to be baptized without clearance from the First Presidency. Abortions previous to baptism will need clearance from the Mission President Himself. If I am correct, she had this interview prior to her covenant with GOD on what I had digested. It that being case, know one, I mean no one in the church should be questioning her pre-baptismal past. Now, if they are, they themselves are under condemnation. [oohh just felt the Holy Ghost. Strange!]

Not strange. It is true. We shall be judged by the same measure we judge others.

Hidden, know this, Satan is working hard on you. You are important. Your family is important. If you let Satan have his way you will destroy the chances your family has of Celestial glory. Your children will fall away. This will happen whether or not your husband remarries, but know this he will not remarry right away. Your husband LOVES YOU. He wants to KEEP YOU FOR FOREVER. That's why he married you in the Temple. Your children love you. They want you for their mother, for forever, even if they do not remember that right now.

Consider this, our souls are more than just a collection of cells and their accompanying DNA strands. If this were not so then identical twins would be exactly the same in all things. Did you know that the only physical difference between identical twins are their fingerprints? If an identical twin committed a crime a blood sample would not suffice because identical twins have the exact same DNA. They are genetically identical. But, their finger prints are different. Why? Because, in my opinion, that is the mark of our spirits entering our bodies. Fingerprints begin to form in the 9th week of gestation. It is my belief that that is when the spirit enters the body.

Why do I believe this? Because it would be a cruel thing for miscarriages to mean death to an unborn soul. Because very few conceptions actually result in a baby (my mother has my development book and I do not remember the numbers on that one). Just because the egg and the sperm get together does not mean the next steps will be performed or performed properly. Such dud combinations are simply flushed out during your next menstrual cycle. Why would God allow spirits to enter such dud combinations? And when I mean very few I mean only like 9% of conceptions results in babies, some ludicrously low number.

My daughter just asked me if I was alright. I said that I was talking to someone. She asked what was wrong. I said, that she wants to kill herself. She asked me, "why, she's crazy!" I smiled and said, "yes, Satan is trying to convince her that she'd be better off dead." "WHAT? That's not good. Now I want to kick Satan in the eye." Then she asked me to tell you that it's not good to kill yourself. As you can see I have a rather somber child. She takes these things very seriously and has a lot of compassion.

So, seek professional help, and listen to MOE, Funky and Hemi.

[nannysherri]

I agree with funkytown and Tam, while all this info is nice this person is in need of help now. Let me also encourge the op to get some help, it is so important right now.

[Hemidakota]

Advice was given...it is up to her to accept or reject what is given.

[applepansy]

Thank you everyone, I really should not unload this on anyone. Sorry.

Bingo.

Isn't that what we're here for? To help each other through difficult times? You don't need to be sorry. You have not "unloaded" on anyone. You have reached out for help. Let us help.

Please contact your Bishop and get a referral to an LDS Counselor. You need to be able to talk about your feelings with someone trained, and who also knows the Gospel. LDS Counselors are good, please give it a try.

Please let the Atonement work. This is forgiveable. The hardest thing we do is learn to forgive ourselves. Satan stands in the way and he works hard to stop us from forgiving ourselves. He will do anything to destroy you, please don't let him.

The only way we can help you is with words. But the words posted here are not empty. I believe everyone here would give you a hug and help you understand your worth. Please give yourself a chance.

applepansy

Edited January 21, 2009 by applepansy

[Elgama]

Ok this is not church doctrine. it is based entirely on personal experience, and revelation, but hope it may help you.

When I was 16 months old my parents had an abortion a little girl, my Mum struggled with it and named her Tree in my teenaged years. When I got baptised my first question was what had happened to my sister, as the baby my parents had after me was a boy. I prayed for her to come and live with us, when I met my husband he had. had an impression about having a child with a tree connection, we got engaged and we were in the celestial room at San Diego Temple, my then fiance went up to the Atrium there and I began to pray about her, we hadn't discussed it immediatly before, my strong impression and I was a bit miffed about it was it was his answer to get. He came down the stairs and said to me Tree will be ours it was only then it twigged he was 2 years younger than me and would probably be the one who promised her she could come to us.

I had thought my first child would be a boy but my husband said no Tree is coming first, my daughter arrived and we called her Elana (Hebrew for Tree). One thing is very clear to me is that she has more than forgiven my parents there is no animosity when she interacts with them and she adores them... concerning what happened to her she had a clearer understanding at the time than they did.

Maybe that is why whilst serious abortion is not quite on the same plane as murder, its fixable and the person that harm is done to has the greater understanding. Whereas with murder that persons life comes to a complete end. I wonder if time in the celestial room praying about your child, also something that helped me with my miscarriages and Mum with her abortion was to have a funeral, I bought her a little sleepsuit and blanket for Tree, she buried them in a box and we planted a tree, said a prayer etc I did the same for my babies. You have lost a child and probably instead of grieving you have blamed yourself, try grieving for your baby, and praying that their spirit will be safe and that child will be loved, you may even find out what happened to them

-Charley

Edited January 21, 2009 by Elgama

[lestertheemt]

Faded,

My heart aches for you. I would strongly urge you to seek out help. You are hurting and you are mourning. The bishop can empathize, but in a lot of ways those who have not been where you have will not "get it". The only one who does is our loving Heavenly Father, He knows, He understands and He love you!

(((((((((hugs))))))))))))

my dear sister

[jolee65]

We need you to come back and talk to us , dont leave now.

This is why were here , for one another its trying times and we need all the spiritual support we can get.

[Justice]

hidden,

I forgive you.

After reading the little that you wrote about yourself and about your situation, it was very easy for me to forgive you. How much easier will it be for Someone infinitely more understanding, loving, and willing to forgive you than I?

We are our own worst judges.

I want to tell you something that I've learned about repentance and forgiveness.

The great secret is that there isn't any sin that you can repent of that can't be forgiven. The key is we must repent. The Atonement is infinite, meaning it covers all sin. The only sin it can't cover is one not repented of. If you are wiling to repent, and sincerely go through all the steps involved, then, my dear sister, there is nothing you can't be forgiven for. If it were otherwise, then the Atonement would be limited.

Like many here have expressed, the judgements you place on yourself is what needs to be dealt with. The fact that you are beating yourself up so severely shows tremendous remorse.

Our area participated in the first Area wide Stake Conference broadcast of the year a couple weeks ago. Elder Holland gave a talk based on the theme, "it's time to let go."

And, for you, sister, it's time to let it go. You have repented... let it go.

Get on your knees tonight and ask Heavenly Father a specific question. Say something like, "I have been told that forgiveness is possible. I deeply hope that they are right; I desire for them to be right; I believe that they are right. Father, help me to know that they are right."

Don't get up until you get an answer.

You WILL get an answer.

Then, once you know forgiveness is possible, go see your Bishop again, and see if what he says doesn't make more sense. Once you believe forgiveness is possible, then you can proceed with speaking to someone who can help you deal with the scars that such a burden brings.

Sister, you deserve to be happy.

Say it. Say, "I deserve to be happy, I am a child of God and He loves me."

Do whatever it takes. It's going to take time and effort, and you may never totally overcome it this is this life. Ask for the strength to deal with it. It will come through the grace and mercy He offers through the Atonement. You cannot do it on your own. That doesn't make you weak or unworthy... it simply makes you human.

If you were in my Ward I would gladly open my arms to you and accept you into full fellowship. I would raise my hand and sustain you.

All you need is the strength to deal with such a burden. I promise you it can be done.

I think so many times we believe in Christ, but we don't believe what He says. He has said that He will forgive you, and He has also said that He will bear our burdens, or make them light. You need to find a way to believe what He says.

He won't lie.

Edited January 23, 2009 by Justice

[hidden]

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Edited January 23, 2009 by hidden

[applepansy]

Hidden,

Thank you for posting again.

If you feel you lied to get baptized then go to your Bishop. There is still nothing in this life you can do that can't be forgiven. the hard part is forgiving yourself.

Godly sorrow is one of the steps of repentance.

You are in my prayers,

applepansy

[FunkyTown]

…O wretched man that I am!

Man, hidden?

[Just_A_Guy]

I lied – I told him (the father) that a spirit not born now could wait and be born later, strange I had never been taught about the pre-existence but somehow had the impression of spirits floating around waiting to be born.

Hi Hidden. There's not much I can say beyond what others have said--especially, that you should talk to a licensed professional--but I do want to take issue with the above statement.

Many Mormons believe that life begins at conception, but there is no conclusive doctrine on this point. Zero. Zilch. None. We just don't know.

Yes, you improperly toyed with the power to create life. But that doesn't necessarily mean you've killed anyone, and it would be a silly thing to beat yourself up for a "murder" that you quite possibly didn't even commit.

Yes, I saw your first post about the dreams that you've had. But remember that not all revelations come from God--and sometimes it's hard to tell the difference. For example, D&C 50 came after some church elders in Kirtland misread their spiritual experiences, attributing to God manifestations that had actually come from other spirits.

Yet, two months after Joseph Smith receives this revelation, at a meeting in Kirtland he again gets confused and assumes a spiritual manifestation is of God when in fact it is not. Levi Hancock related,

Joseph put his hands upon Harvey Whitlock and ordained him to the office of high priest in the High Priesthood. He turned as black as Lyman was white. His fingers were set like claws. He went around the room and showed his hands and tried to speak. His eyes were in the shape of oval O's.

Hyrum Smith said, "Joseph, that is not of God."

Joseph said, "Do not speak against this."

"I will not believe," said Hyrum, "unless you inquire of God and he owns it."

Joseph bowed his head, and in a short time got up and commanded Satan to leave Harvey, laying his hands upon his head at the same time.

If Joseph Smith, after receiving direct how-to instructions from the Lord, can still misread a spiritual manifestation--isn't it possible that maybe you have, too?

God holds Himself accountable for the way true revelations are received and interpreted (that's doctrine. You can look it up). He wouldn't have given you a revelation that would lead you act against His will--and giving up and committing suicide is most definitely against His will. Read Galatians 5:22-23. That's what you'd be feeling right now, if the revelation were a true one.

Talk to a medical professional about this. If you have to, go on medication. It'll be a rough ride for a while, but you'll make it through. I promise.

Edited January 23, 2009 by Just_A_Guy

[hidden]

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Edited January 23, 2009 by hidden