So You Want To Go To Heaven?

[Traveler]

One of the criticisms of Christians in general is that is that we all think we want to go to heaven but that we have no concept what heaven is. So my questions are as follows:

1. What do you think heaven is like?

2. What exactly do you plan on doing there? (Eternity is a long time how will you keep busy?)

3. What will citizens of heaven be like and who will they be? (Any comparisons to any social structures currently experienced on earth?)

Feel free to add anything else you like or think worthy to acknowledge concerning heaven.

The Traveler

[Setheus]

1. Heaven is everything this world is...minus the pain and suffering and sin.

2. I will spend my time learning and growing to be more like God. (what that entails I can't begin to guess)

3. I think God has already given us this answer. What structure is elevated even above the church? The Family. Heaven's social structure will be much like a large family. What use would a govt. be? Perhaps a monarchy would be closest to describe the social structure?

[Traveler]

Originally posted by Setheus@Dec 15 2004, 04:04 PM

1. Heaven is everything this world is...minus the pain and suffering and sin.

2. I will spend my time learning and growing to be more like God. (what that entails I can't begin to guess)

3. I think God has already given us this answer. What structure is elevated even above the church? The Family. Heaven's social structure will be much like a large family. What use would a govt. be? Perhaps a monarchy would be closest to describe the social structure?

Good answer!!!

The Traveler

[Traveler]

Throughout history there has been an influence (or corruption) of truth in the form of idolatry. Allow me to demonstrate. Much of the ancient influence of idolatry originated in Egypt. It is a tenet of idolatry to attempt to find excuses or ways around living according to covenant with G-d. One must understand that all society has had rules for good living, but the idolatrous want to make exceptions for themselves.

In ancient Egypt a G-d by the name of Mot stood as the doorkeeper to heaven. His tool of determining who got into heaven was a scale. On the right side of the scale he would place your good deeds and your evil deeds on the left. If the scale tipped to the right you got into heaven. Otherwise you were sent somewhere else to be tormented and to suffer for your evil deeds. At the time of the apostles of Jesus the Hellenist had taken this concept to a new level. If you had plenty of good deeds then you could do some bad things without any repercussions. So the reason to do good deeds became so that you could do more bad things that were much more enjoyable.

Paul taught that such “good” deeds were counted as evil but many literal Christians take Paul’s words out of context and teach all good deeds are evil. This is one way that idolatry has an effect. By placing false teaching the truth can be taken out of context and become misunderstood. However that is not what I want to present. The main point is that most people, including Christians that consider themselves devout believe if they have more good deeds than bad deeds they will get into heaven. This is a big problem because they also try to believe that people with even more good deed than them but are not Christian do not get into heaven. Others go to the other extreme – They think that as long as you believe in Jesus you get full access to heaven regardless of your deeds.

There is another concept coming out of idolatry that has found ways into the hearts of Christians. This is the idolatrous concept of getting special privilege entrance into heaven. In ancient Egypt is was believe that regardless of whatever you have done if you will perform a ritual (such as a sacrifice – sometimes your first born) or a secret incantation that you could please a g-d and be forgiven of all your bad deeds and go to heaven. And heaven to them was a very me gratification place where all your pleasures and wants are awarded.

To be honest I believe that many that profess to be Christian so despise Christian devotion and service that they will find a really Christian heaven a horrible place for them because they are so me centered that they do not understand Christianity is loving G-d and others more than one’s self. Let me put it this way – if you dream of going on vacation to a 5 star resort where you will be pampered and waited on hand and foot and you consider it not a vacation to go somewhere and end up having to clean up after others and serve them as a vacation in hell you may have a real shock in a Christian heaven. You may find the heaven of idolatry much more suitable.

I find many statements in the debate over works and faith quite amusing. Let me put it this way. If your religion does not have the power to change you so that you love serving others by your deeds what makes you think you are a candidate for heaven? I believe goodness that comes through the gospel of Jesus Christ is an acquired taste. If you cannot learn to love and enjoy doing the covenantal deeds of a Christian – I don’t care what you think you profess you ain’t goin’a make it in Christian heaven, regardless of all G-d’s grace. The only way to learn to enjoy good Christian deeds so you can live in a Christian heaven is to learn to enjoy good Christian deeds before you get to Christian heaven. There is no other way. G-d’s grace is not magic and it isn’t going to change you into something you really do not want to be. G-d’s grace is for forgiving you of sin. It is his justice that rewards you with a heaven you have learned to love through the practice of your deeds.

The Traveler

[Blessed]

Hmmmm.

I think Heaven will be the Garden of Eden in its perfect form without sin.

What will I be doing? Hm, I don't know, but as long as I am close to Jesus... anything!!! I won't care.

I think people from all over from all walks of life will be there. I think I will be shocked who I will see and who I won't see IF I am priviledged enough by God's good grace to make it in.

[Snow]

Originally posted by Traveler@Dec 15 2004, 02:56 PM

1. What do you think heaven is like?

You know how when you go to the movies and you buy a super extra large diet Coke and drink it really fast and then half way through the movie you really really have to go to the bathroom but the movie is at an intense part so you wait and wait and you have to go but the movie is still good so you wait some more and then finally you are ready to burst and so you have to walk really funny and really fast to the bathroom and when you finally get to the urinal you unzip and whooosss... great relief floods your body and endorphins get released and your stomach tickles and the bloods vessles at the surface of your skin tickle and you just feel like you are in heaven...

...that's what being in heaven would be like except in heaven in would be like the bathroom is in a balconey overlooking the movie screen so you could watch the movie when you are urinating and you would have a giant diet coke strapped to your head and a straw and you could drink non-stop and urinate non-stop and the bliss would never end....

2. What exactly do you plan on doing there?

See above

[Traveler]

Originally posted by Blessed@Dec 15 2004, 07:50 PM

Hmmmm.

I think Heaven will be the Garden of Eden in its perfect form without sin.

What will I be doing? Hm, I don't know, but as long as I am close to Jesus... anything!!! I won't care.

I think people from all over from all walks of life will be there. I think I will be shocked who I will see and who I won't see IF I am priviledged enough by God's good grace to make it in.

Hi Friend: I have no doubt what-so-ever that you will find yourself in the exact heaven of which you have dreamed. One question - If you are doing things for Jesus, why would heaven be any different than here or do you invision heaven as something better?

The Traveler

[DisRuptive1]

I don't think that there will be no sin in heaven, it will be just that we choose not to sin. People will still make mistakes, those that haven't found love can still date and find others and get rejected and feel pain through rejection. In Heaven, I believe we'll continue to learn, and it will be a lot like it is now, just no death. Maybe torture, but I don't know. But no more death, except for spiritual death.

[StrawberryFields]

I believe that Heaven will be a very spiritual place where I will be able to see my loved ones who have gone on before me. I sure hope that they will be proud of my efforts that I have made in this life.

I imagine the feeling to be similar to the feelings I feel in the temple...Safe, Serene, and a closeness of those around me.

A social structure with be one as families although I realize that we will all be brothers and sisters.

[Spencer]

I hope its near a beach, with perfect waves that come in sets of 3 =) water temp around the mid 70's warm crisp air. and a sun that sinks into the ocean at the end of the day. sounds like heaven to me =) Hmm can I be age 18 and stay there too? =b

[Amillia]

Heaven; it will be a place where we will be reuinted with family. We will do picnics and barbeques and tell stories of our lives.

Then, also, we will visit those in other levels or degrees and teach them, and help them raise their own spiritual lives so they can progress to a higher level. See, when we help others to progress, we progress too. And if we are to progress eternally, we must help others to progress.

That is heaven and what we will be doing there.

[Spencer]

Are you sure there is nothing to do with beaches? =( hehe

[shanstress70]

I have a different theory. Think about how long eternity is. Even if you do become gods (which I guess a lot of you believe, but I do not), it seems that you would eventually tire of whatever you are doing... even being a god. If having babies is what some of you think you will be doing, that will get old too... even if it seems now that there could be nothing better.

If I think of my idea of heaven, simplistically, my time would be spent visiting with my family, hanging out and hiking in the mountains, watching movies, doing crafts, reading, cooking, eating chocolate truffles, and all those familiar things that I love. When I get bored with them, I will try things I've always wanted to do, such as bungi-jumping, sky-diving, tight-rope walking, etc. After doing all that, I would probably do things that I've never had any interest in... just because it would be something different and I'm getting bored by now.

Remember, eternity means no end of time, so after what... a thousand years?... you would have done it all and it would all be boring. Even if people are praying to you and you are solving problems, that would get old as well after 1000's of years. Can you imagine listening to everyones' problems for that long? Even creating other planets would get old after a million years or so!

There is some humor to what I'm saying, but I really do think it's somewhat true. ANYTHING would get old after a thousand/million/billion years or so. And an eternity is more than a billion years TIMES a billion.... it gives me a headache to think about it.

So, what I think, is that there is another plane that we can't even think of because we don't know anything of the like. That will be in addition to all the things that are familiar/comfortable/challenging/rewarding to us. It's nothing that would be familiar to any of us, but it will be awesome, because that's what heaven is.

And that's my little take on it...

[Eros Augustus]

Originally posted by shanstress70@Dec 16 2004, 12:30 PM

Remember, eternity means no end of time,

Actually eternity means NO time. There is NO beginning nor end to eternity. So how can you live a billion times a billion years when infact a single day as not passed?

Also, you say after a million years you would get bored with making a world? Well dear, I think it takes several million years to complete a world, so you are either going to be a very advanced creator or a god with ADD.

"and thats my take on it"

[Guest TheProudDuck]

Originally posted by Spencer@Dec 16 2004, 08:15 AM

I hope its near a beach, with perfect waves that come in sets of 3 =) water temp around the mid 70's warm crisp air. and a sun that sinks into the ocean at the end of the day. sounds like heaven to me =) Hmm can I be age 18 and stay there too? =b

Why sets of 3? The longboarders sitting outside always get the first one; everyone scrambles for the second, and if you miss the third one, you have to wait until the next set.

I'd say sets of 4, with light offshore winds and a rising mid-level tide.

[Blessed]

Originally posted by Traveler+Dec 15 2004, 11:27 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Traveler @ Dec 15 2004, 11:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Blessed@Dec 15 2004, 07:50 PM

Hmmmm. 

I think Heaven will be the Garden of Eden in its perfect form without sin. 

What will I be doing?  Hm, I don't know, but as long as I am close to Jesus... anything!!!  I won't care.

I think people from all over from all walks of life will be there.  I think I will be shocked who I will see and who I won't see IF I am priviledged enough by God's good grace to make it in.

Hi Friend: I have no doubt what-so-ever that you will find yourself in the exact heaven of which you have dreamed. One question - If you are doing things for Jesus, why would heaven be any different than here or do you invision heaven as something better?

The Traveler

I think there will be no poor, no strife, no want, no war... where the lion and the lamb will lie down together.

I think we will be with Christ and in worship. Maybe the best idea I have is I will be sitting along a babling brook with my feet in it strumming a harp... lol, seriously, I really don't know what we will be called to do. Perhaps fulfliing our created potential in what ever way that is... ??????????

Man, you got me thinking... dude, I only have one working brain cell at the moment... gonna go overload it.

[Spencer]

Originally posted by TheProudDuck+Dec 16 2004, 04:11 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (TheProudDuck @ Dec 16 2004, 04:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Spencer@Dec 16 2004, 08:15 AM

I hope its near a beach, with perfect waves that come in sets of 3 =) water temp around the mid 70's warm crisp air. and a sun that sinks into the ocean at the end of the day. sounds like heaven to me =) Hmm can I be age 18 and stay there too? =b

Why sets of 3? The longboarders sitting outside always get the first one; everyone scrambles for the second, and if you miss the third one, you have to wait until the next set.

I'd say sets of 4, with light offshore winds and a rising mid-level tide.

Not a problem, Im up for comprimise =)

[shanstress70]

Originally posted by Eros Augustus+Dec 16 2004, 02:55 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Eros Augustus @ Dec 16 2004, 02:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--shanstress70@Dec 16 2004, 12:30 PM

Remember, eternity means no end of time,

Actually eternity means NO time. There is NO beginning nor end to eternity. So how can you live a billion times a billion years when infact a single day as not passed?

Also, you say after a million years you would get bored with making a world? Well dear, I think it takes several million years to complete a world, so you are either going to be a very advanced creator or a god with ADD.

"and thats my take on it"

Yes, a little detail I must have failed to think about.

My DH reminded me of this last night (that eternity is no time).

And I know I didn't get my point across. It's difficult to describe something when there are no words that exist for it. Even if there is no time, you would still get bored doing any combination of things for eternity. That's why I think there is something there for us that we can't even comprehend, because we have nothing like it here on earth. I know it still doesn't make sense, but it does to me in MY mind.

As far as it taking millions of years to create a world, don't some of you guys think (along with many other Christians) that it only took 6,000 or so to create this one?

[Amillia]

Originally posted by shanstress70@Dec 16 2004, 01:30 PM

I have a different theory.  Think about how long eternity is.  Even if you do become gods (which I guess a lot of you believe, but I do not), it seems that you would eventually tire of whatever you are doing... even being a god.  If having babies is what some of you think you will be doing, that will get old too... even if it seems now that there could be nothing better. 

If I think of my idea of heaven, simplistically, my time would be spent visiting with my family, hanging out and hiking in the mountains, watching movies, doing crafts, reading, cooking, eating chocolate truffles, and all those familiar things that I love.  When I get bored with them, I will try things I've always wanted to do, such as bungi-jumping, sky-diving, tight-rope walking, etc.  After doing all that, I would probably do things that I've never had any interest in... just because it would be something different and I'm getting bored by now.

Remember, eternity means no end of time, so after what... a thousand years?... you would have done it all and it would all be boring.  Even if people are praying to you and you are solving problems, that would get old as well after 1000's of years.  Can you imagine listening to everyones' problems for that long?  Even creating other planets would get old after a million years or so!

There is some humor to what I'm saying, but I really do think it's somewhat true.  ANYTHING would get old after a thousand/million/billion years or so.  And an eternity is more than a billion years TIMES a billion.... it gives me a headache to think about it.

So, what I think, is that there is another plane that we can't even think of because we don't know anything of the like.  That will be in addition to all the things that are familiar/comfortable/challenging/rewarding to us.  It's nothing that would be familiar to any of us, but it will be awesome, because that's what heaven is.

And that's my little take on it...

What if it isn't all about making ourselves happy. It would get old if all we did was try and please ourselves. When we are helping others it is always new and challenging. Helping others for eternity would never get old because we would constantly be renewed by the joy we brought into other's existence.

That's why I think there is something there for us that we can't even comprehend, because we have nothing like it here on earth. I know it still doesn't make sense, but it does to me in MY mind.

As far as it taking millions of years to create a world, don't some of you guys think (along with many other Christians) that it only took 6,000 or so to create this one?

I believe you're right. There will be things we can't even conceive of right now.

I don't believe that the earth was created in 6,000 years. It was organized in that time, but not created. Matter unorganized existed befor the creation and where did it come from? How long did it take to creat matter unorganized?

[shanstress70]

Originally posted by Amillia@Dec 17 2004, 11:45 AM

What if it isn't all about making ourselves happy. It would get old if all we did was try and please ourselves. When we are helping others it is always new and challenging. Helping others for eternity would never get old because we would constantly be renewed by the joy we brought into other's existence.

Yeah, but what kind of help do people in heaven need?

[Spencer]

Originally posted by shanstress70+Dec 17 2004, 01:27 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (shanstress70 @ Dec 17 2004, 01:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Amillia@Dec 17 2004, 11:45 AM

What if it isn't all about making ourselves happy. It would get old if all we did was try and please ourselves. When we are helping others it is always new and challenging. Helping others for eternity would never get old because we would constantly be renewed by the joy we brought into other's existence.

Yeah, but what kind of help do people in heaven need?

I suppose none if you dont believe in the 3 degrees of glory.

[shanstress70]

True, true.

[Blessed]

I wouldn't mind waves in heaven just as long there are really hot surfers riding on 'em!

Ya, i know... mybad.

[Spencer]

Originally posted by Blessed@Dec 17 2004, 03:00 PM

I wouldn't mind waves in heaven just as long there are really hot surfers riding on 'em!

Ya, i know... mybad.

haha I hear ya

[Guest TheProudDuck]

Originally posted by Spencer+Dec 17 2004, 11:40 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Spencer @ Dec 17 2004, 11:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -shanstress70@Dec 17 2004, 01:27 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--Amillia@Dec 17 2004, 11:45 AM

What if it isn't all about making ourselves happy. It would get old if all we did was try and please ourselves. When we are helping others it is always new and challenging. Helping others for eternity would never get old because we would constantly be renewed by the joy we brought into other's existence.

Yeah, but what kind of help do people in heaven need?

I suppose none if you dont believe in the 3 degrees of glory.

Telestial = Newport jetties at low tide, 2-3 feet with onshores and 60 degree water and 80 guys between the jetties whose every second word starts with "f".

Terrestrial = Salt Creek on a warm summer day with no wind, water temp 68 degrees, small crowd, 4-5 feet on a rising tide and only an occasional closeout set.

Celestial = Trestles with light offshores at 5-6 feet, with the ability to call up a bigger set on demand, water temp 72 degrees and me and only a few good friends/family (that whole "same sociality" thing coupled with eternal glory) on the water. I suppose I could be creating my own surf spot in the Celestial, but I don't think I could improve much on the Lord's work this time around with this particular spot.

Oh -- and no trains running, so I can take the shortcut across the trestle instead of hiking a mile back from the beach. And a cooler with that really good Peach Snapple that they don't make anymore.