weapons in the home?

[prospectmom]

Just read all the posts since I wrote and would like to comment ...

Hordak... son't shoot it unless you plan to eat it comes from having boys who would shoot at birds, squirls etc if I hadn't put in a mommy clause as I feed/ we feed these animals and as of yet have not had the need to try squirll stew :} If it becomes necessary of course rules change..... :}

Cast Iron Pans are great as weapons .. :} also you get in a little weight lifting ... :]

We live in the mountains.... We try to trap problem critters if bothering us or home but rarley have to shoot one . I wouldn't live up here with out protection (if ever needed) the response time for athorities is 1 to 2 hours so well you see my point.

[rameumptom]

The reality is, most of the time, police do not have to use deadly force to ensure safety and the capture of criminals. They have several less than deadly force techniques they can use first.

1. Physical Presence. If a bad guy believes someone is home, they are less likely to break in.

2. non-deadly weapons. Tasers, pepper spray, mace, baseball bat, baton, etc.

3. less than deadly weapons. Knives, dogs, salt shot, etc.

4. deadly weapons. Guns.

Dogs are a great deterrent and protection. Most home invaders are not interested in messing with a German Shepherd or Rottweiler. As a military police dog handler for 4 years, you would be amazed at how fast people straighten up when the dog shows up.

For most of us, there is no need for a gun. I have no problem with people having them. Sadly, it seems to be their only form of protection, so they always reach for the deadly weapon first. That would be like the USA or Russia always launching a nuke anytime there was a turf war in the Middle East, because they haven't given forethought about lesser extremes (diplomacy or conventional weapons, for instance).

So, while have deadly weapons is a good thing for many, I would hope they set a less than deadly weapon up along side it as an alternative choice....

[Elgama]

Just read all the posts since I wrote and would like to comment ...

Hordak... son't shoot it unless you plan to eat it comes from having boys who would shoot at birds, squirls etc if I hadn't put in a mommy clause as I feed/ we feed these animals and as of yet have not had the need to try squirll stew :} If it becomes necessary of course rules change..... :}

Food | Britain's Best Dish | Recipes 2008 | TX32 Squirrel pie - ITV Lifestyle

supposed to be quite good:)

[prospectmom]

I have heard this :}.... Just not motivated to try it yet....

[marshac]

Food | Britain's Best Dish | Recipes 2008 | TX32 Squirrel pie - ITV Lifestyle

supposed to be quite good:)

How about squirrel melts?

[prospectmom]

come on I can probably deal with stew or pot pie kinda disguised with vegi's sesonings etc but no squirrel melts just sound yuckie.... :{

[gabelpa]

One of the new crisp flavours that Walkers is getting people to vote on is called cajun squirrel. (un?)fortunately, as a missionary in Texas I never ate anything more exotic than catfish I caught myself while working with a part-member family. No roadkill cafe locally. I will say though, a couple years or so ago, we had a Missionary in our area ask me about storing a grouse that he had hit with the car while driving, my parents were hunters and passed on a bit of knowledge to me. According to his companions, he aimed for the animals on the road, so he could dress them and eat them. He was from Arkansas though, and they're just weird...

On another vein, there's currently a Criminal Minds on, has a quote I like. "You don't need a gun to kill someone."

[ninjormon]

The reality is, most of the time, police do not have to use deadly force to ensure safety and the capture of criminals. They have several less than deadly force techniques they can use first.

1. Physical Presence. If a bad guy believes someone is home, they are less likely to break in.

2. non-deadly weapons. Tasers, pepper spray, mace, baseball bat, baton, etc.

3. less than deadly weapons. Knives, dogs, salt shot, etc.

4. deadly weapons. Guns.

#3 knives are most definitely a deadly weapon, i had a call one time from a security guard while I was working as a field supervisor, it was a homeless shelter and long story short the man was shot in the chest twice by a cop and all he was holding a pair of sissors. In Texas we were taught during training that anyone with something shiny in thier hand and within twenty feet of you gets shot no matter man woman or child. It takes 1 second to go 20 feet and stab/kill with a knife, even by an old man on crutches, it takes 1.5 seconds to unholster a gun when you are expecting it, not to get on target, cock it, or including reaction time.

[BenRaines]

ninjormon, knives result in more deaths of officers in the field that other weapons. That is the reason for the training.

Citizens, people who have no idea, ask "Why didn't he shoot him in the hand, the leg or somewhere else. Officers are trained to stop the aggressor. We did not practice trick shooting, like in the hand, leg, arm, etc. Biggest target is center mass and quickest way to stop the aggressor is two to center mass.

Ben Raines

[NeuroTypical]

The reality is, most of the time, police do not have to use deadly force to ensure safety and the capture of criminals.

I appreciate the overall point you're making with your post ram, just one tangent:

Most of the time, police get there too late. Police very rarely stop criminals in the commission of a crime. They chase down, they investigate, they serve warrants, but apart from the deterrent factor of their presence, they rarely 'get there in time'.

In other words:

Q: How come you carry a gun?

A: Because a cop is too heavy!

LM

[rameumptom]

#3 knives are most definitely a deadly weapon, i had a call one time from a security guard while I was working as a field supervisor, it was a homeless shelter and long story short the man was shot in the chest twice by a cop and all he was holding a pair of sissors. In Texas we were taught during training that anyone with something shiny in thier hand and within twenty feet of you gets shot no matter man woman or child. It takes 1 second to go 20 feet and stab/kill with a knife, even by an old man on crutches, it takes 1.5 seconds to unholster a gun when you are expecting it, not to get on target, cock it, or including reaction time.

Knives are normally considered "less than deadly". Why? Because it normally is used in the hand, where the person can control its use and pull back if necessary. Once a bullet is fired, there is no recalling it.

It also has limited range, which is why you were taught if they were within 20 feet, you could shoot them. With a pistol or rifle, the deadly range is extended out to hundreds of feet. Your reference is not about deadly weapons, but about a person's ability to harm you with anything in his hand if he's too close to you.

[NeuroTypical]

Knives are normally considered "less than deadly". Why? Because it normally is used in the hand, where the person can control its use and pull back if necessary. Once a bullet is fired, there is no recalling it.

I haven't heard this line of thinking before. Can I ask where you're getting your information?

Once a knife has cut something, it stays cut - there's no pulling anything back. Just like a bullet.

Cops tell me they treat suspects with knives or guns the same - both can cause serious harm or death.

Bouncers and street brawlers tell me if someone pulls a gun or knife, the game has just become deadly.

Knife law varies from state to state, on what's allowed and what's illegal - but most (if not all) states consider them "dangerous weapons" - i.e. an item capable of causing death or serious bodily injury.

With a pistol or rifle, the deadly range is extended out to hundreds of feet.

No, really, what is your source for this stuff? A round from a handgun can kill someone a mile away. A bullet out of a rifle can fly several miles and still kill someone. "Effective distances" - meaning you can hit what you are aiming at - are usually measured in yards, with some rifles very effective at 600 or even 800 yards.

LM

[ninjormon]

When using a knife as a weapon theres no way to tell if you will just injure the person or kill them, the smallest nick to a major artery and the person can bleed out or in a struggle theres no way to tell where its going to end up. In close distances a blade is more deadly than a gun.

Correction dead is dead so it's not more deadly but rather a more effective weapon.

[rameumptom]

Nope. In close ranges, if the other person has a knife, I would definitely prefer a pistol in my own hands. The other person can effectively block a knife parry, but the bullet will just push on through and cause damage, especially on a large caliber magnum.

Let's see, I try and block a knife or I try and block a 44 cal slug. Which one will I have a better chance of success?

[rameumptom]

I haven't heard this line of thinking before. Can I ask where you're getting your information?

Once a knife has cut something, it stays cut - there's no pulling anything back. Just like a bullet.

Cops tell me they treat suspects with knives or guns the same - both can cause serious harm or death.

Bouncers and street brawlers tell me if someone pulls a gun or knife, the game has just become deadly.

Knife law varies from state to state, on what's allowed and what's illegal - but most (if not all) states consider them "dangerous weapons" - i.e. an item capable of causing death or serious bodily injury.

No, really, what is your source for this stuff? A round from a handgun can kill someone a mile away. A bullet out of a rifle can fly several miles and still kill someone. "Effective distances" - meaning you can hit what you are aiming at - are usually measured in yards, with some rifles very effective at 600 or even 800 yards.

LM

I spent 20 years in the military and several years in corrections. Police consider knives and guns differently. If the person is 100 feet away, brandishing a knife, the officer may pull his gun, but won't shoot. He may have to shoot if the perpetrator is 100 feet away with a gun. Proximity is the key issue and difference here.

Secondly, I can attempt to block a knife parry. How's my chances at blocking a 44 round with my arm?

If I have a gun and I shoot, what are my chances of recalling the bullet before it hits its target? With a knife, I can always pull back on my swing until the last minute.

These are the key reasons why knives are usually considered "less than deadly." Not that they can't kill, but that the chances of inflicting death are much less than with a gun.

Your last example explains my statements perfectly. A handgun can kill from a mile away. How many knives can be thrown that far? Most thrown knives have a deadly range of only a few feet.

[NeuroTypical]

Well, the term "never bring a knife to a gun fight" is certainly widely held...

I'm thinking about distances of a dozen yards or less. They tell me that's the distance most attacks occur in. I'll always remember the way my local cop illustrated the point. He had someone on the other side of the room pretend he had a pistol in a holster, and instructed him to pretend to draw this pretend pistol to defend himself if needed. Then without warning, he jumped to a full sprint and closed the distance between the two of them in less than 2 seconds. He asked us to consider this example as we practiced drawing and accurately firing our weapons.

The "Personal Protection Inside the Home" course my wife recently attended thought along the same lines. If you encounter a bad guy intent on doing you harm, he's just about as dangerous to you with a knife as he is with a gun within a certain range - and that range covers 80-90% of all the violent attacks people living normal lives tend to experience.

I suppose the military would think of situations and ranges differently, and train for different situations. On the battlefield, or sitting in the lookout tower, you won't be nearly as interested in the guy with a knife 100 yards away. The rules would be different in jails and prisons too.

LM

Edited March 6, 2009 by Loudmouth_Mormon

[ninjormon]

Knife/sword, whatever, in close ranges yes a bullet can kill faster but after those 6 shots if there are 5 people you shoot each one once and one twice unless you put each shot in thier head if they have a sword you are the one dead

[WillowTheWhisp]

Here in the UK we are not allowed to own weapons.

[gabelpa]

Here is my experience, from my father. He served in Vietnam, not a frontline soldier, but close enough to the action that the nightmares of combat stopped about 10 years ago, 7 years ago, he passed away. He kept, for home defense the following: a 12 gauge shotgun with birdshot, a .45ACP handgun in a safe, and a combat knife in his bedside table. His bedroom was one point of entry. By the security-guarded front door we had a baseball bat. In my room, close to the last point of entry, there was a 9mm handgun (cable locked), and a combat knife.

It was possibly excessive, but I believe my dad had mild PTSD from his military service. The main thrust from what he taught me, was to meet force with overwhelming force. It didn't matter what the enemy was armed with, they had to be stopped, be it with a knife, gun or frying pan. Here in the UK, I would be reliant upon improvised weapons, the wooden dowel my son uses as a spyglass, the metal tubes on the vacuum cleaner, knives from the kitchen,etc. I know I've said it before, but in the home,and even wherever you find yourself, there are always weapons.

[nimrod]

No responsible head of household should be without weapons.

[GingerGolden]

I am an Army Brat, Military Issue so to speak...

Our father raised us all as if we were his very own small platoon.

From patrolling specific areas, respecting authority, being a pack horse as well as teaching us how to carry and properly shoot firearms.

We were probably about 9 or 10 when we were taught how to shoot a gun and gun safety.

I prefer a 12 gauge, as they do not give a bruising kick. I am after all even with that in home military training a girly girl from top to bottom and do not like to be hurt, even from a kicking gun.

However, we were taught gun safety and guns are not play toys, every child that is in contact with a firearm should be taught, know and understand the significance of gun safety.

You might consider storing your firearm in one area and the ammo in another or better yet, invest in a locked gun cabinet and secure the key.

Personally, if it ever came down to it, I do know the points of entry for immediate elimination, however my personal choice of weapon is a knife. Of course, if it comes down to it, it is best to have the firearm, plenty of ammo and the knife.

If you get a firearm, just make sure you secure it out of reach of children, teach them how to use it properly and teach them gun safety.

We live out in the country, the gun is stationed behind the door, The children who have lived here or visited here never bother them. They are not loaded and always have safety on.

BTW, I am a better shot than either of my brothers.

Edited March 7, 2009 by GingerGolden

[Hemidakota]

Knife/sword, whatever, in close ranges yes a bullet can kill faster but after those 6 shots if there are 5 people you shoot each one once and one twice unless you put each shot in thier head if they have a sword you are the one dead

Having a shotgun, he will be dead or nearly dead with a stomach shot. With most handguns today, the mags are usually 10-shots or if you can sneak a 15-round version, at least you have that many times to hit the person.

[ninjormon]

Having a shotgun, he will be dead or nearly dead with a stomach shot. With most handguns today, the mags are usually 10-shots or if you can sneak a 15-round version, at least you have that many times to hit the person.

But you agree that a knife is still a deadly weapon right? that was the point I was trying to make, and I know about the 15 round mags, thats what I carry in my glock, plus two more, until I go full auto then I'll still keep it around

[GingerGolden]

But you agree that a knife is still a deadly weapon right?

But of course, a knife is a deadly weapon.

However, to use it successfully, you either have to be in close contact or know how to throw well. Most people, well the one's I grew up with, that are good shots generally, have a good throwing or pitching arm. In other words, good aim.

*I know I'm not Hemi, but I answered anyway...

[arid]

I have two identical semiautomatic handguns, one in the garage and one in my bedroom. I have a concealed carry permit and carry often. My youngest is 15 and they don't seem interested in guns, I don't keep them locked up. There is some risk with this. But the reason for having them is to give me a way to protect my family should there be a home invasion. I hope I never have to use it.