If the spouse never converted...

[Earthymama82]

For simplicities sake say it is the husband that never converts. What becomes of the woman in the eternities? If the husband dies and she remarries and is sealed to the new husband, what becomes of the first husband?

Are things different if it is the woman who refuses to convert?

I have tons and tons of pretty basic questions. Let's hope you don't mind.

[foreverafter]

For simplicities sake say it is the husband that never converts. What becomes of the woman in the eternities? If the husband dies and she remarries and is sealed to the new husband, what becomes of the first husband?

If you both converted to the Gospel after your marriage, than your marriage can be as eternal as anyone else's if one spouse, at least, stays loving & faithful to the other, even if the other never joins the Church in this life. Don't worry or put pressure on a spouse to join, just love & serve them above your own needs & desires all you can & your marriage will eventually be forever. That's a promise from a Prophet - Pres. Hinckley. It's very simple. If the husband dies before he joins & the wife has kept her covenants, then it is still the same, the marriage can be still be forever. He will be taught the gospel & repent in the next life. The surviving wife can be sealed to a new husband in the meantime.

[Kirajo]

But a woman isn't "allowed" to be sealed to more than one man right?? So if she gets re-married and sealed to someone after her non-member husband has passed away and he repents in the next life, will she have the chance to choose if she wants to be sealed to him when she dies?? Or does he just repent and get sealed to someone new while she stays sealed to the new guy?

[foreverafter]

There is much about plural marriage that hasn't been revealed yet. Lets just say she doesn't have to worry about it if she will have to choose or not. For now, the clues are in how the Prophets say that to not be with a spouse you have loved & have been married to on this earth is about the worst thing that could happen to you & not something God would want to happen.

Edited March 1, 2009 by foreverafter

[Wingnut]

It all gets sorted out later, so that we don't have to worry about it here. Heavenly Father knows all, and knows all circumstances, and we know neither.

[Earthymama82]

This is a hypothetical question. Not really something I personally stress about.

So basically, the Prophets have never made a statement regarding if a woman can be sealed to more than one man / man sealed to more than one woman.

[Earthymama82]

Oops, sorry Foreverafter. I missed your first post. Thanks.

[prospectmom]

as much as I think I know the answers I probably am wrong... I think there are so many things to worry about in this life I choose to leave this one for the next... My husband is not active and not sealed to me... My struggle to be my best and be active is enough for me to worry about.

[Guest missingsomething]

you, as a women, are promised that if you are faithful and worthy of a temple marriage - if your husband never converts, you will receive all the blessings that a temple-sealed couple gets. How that actually happens, no one has totally been able to give me a satisfactory answer. I would assume this would also be the case of a man whos wife never converts.

[Roland]

you, as a women, are promised that if you are faithful and worthy of a temple

marriage - if your husband never converts, you will receive all the blessings

that a temple-sealed couple gets.

This is what Spencer W. Kimball said in his book: "The mircale of Forgiveness"

[Mirium]

My husband says that if he finds out when he dies that there is life after death he still is not sure he would accept temple work which is done for him.

What always sits in the back of my mind is that if he dies before me and I go to the Temple and get sealed to him. If he doesn't accept the work what happens to me then?

I would never know if he accepted the work or not and if so what if I met someone in this life and sacrificed being sealed to them because I had done the work to be sealed to my current husband in the hope that he would accept it, but still not being sure.

I've always wondered about it.

[daenvgiell]

you, as a women, are promised that if you are faithful and worthy of a temple marriage - if your husband never converts, you will receive all the blessings that a temple-sealed couple gets. How that actually happens, no one has totally been able to give me a satisfactory answer. I would assume this would also be the case of a man whos wife never converts.

but what if you choose to marry a non member, does that still apply? even though you have chosen to take this path? the path of not having a temple marriage/sealing?

[bytor2112]

I think some of it depends on WHY the spouse chose not to convert. He had the opportunity to receive the gospel in this life, but rejected it. Was it because of the world or another faith?

From Elder Bruce McConkie:

Heresy four: There are those who believe that the doctrine of salvation for the dead offers men a second chance for salvation.

I knew a man, now deceased, not a member of the Church, who was a degenerate old reprobate who found pleasure, as he supposed, in living after the manner of the world. A cigarette dangled from his lips, alcohol stretched his breath, mind profane and bawdy stories defiled his lips. His moral status left much to be desired.

His wife was a member of the Church, as faithful as she could be under the circumstances. One day she said to him, "You know the Church is true; why won't you be baptized?" He replied,

"Of course I know the Church is true, but I have no intention of changing my habits in order to join it. I prefer to live the way I do. But that doesn't worry me in the slightest. I know that as soon as I die, you will have someone go to the temple and do the work for me and everything will come out all right in the end anyway."

He died and she had the work done in the temple. We do not sit in judgment and deny vicarious ordinances to people. But what will it profit him?

There is no such thing as a second chance to gain salvation. This life is the time and the day of our probation. After this day of life, which is given us to prepare for eternity, then cometh the night of darkness wherein there can be no labor performed. For those who do not have an opportunity to believe and obey the holy word in this life, the first chance to gain salvation will come in the spirit world. If those who hear the word for the first time in the realms ahead are the kind of people who would have accepted the gospel here, had the opportunity been afforded them, they will accept it there. Salvation for the dead is for those whose first chance to gain salvation is in the spirit world. in the revelation recently added to our canon of holy writ these words are found:

Thus came the voice of the Lord unto me, saying: All who have died without a knowledge of this gospel, who would have received it if they had been permitted to tarry, shall be heirs of the celestial kingdom of God; Also all that shall die henceforth without a knowledge of it, who would have received it with all their hearts, shall be heirs of that kingdom; For I, the Lord, will judge all men according to their works, according to the desire of their hearts. [D&C 137:7-9]

There is no other promise of salvation than the one recited in that revelation. Those who reject the gospel in this life and then receive it in the spirit world go not to the celestial, but to the terrestrial kingdom.

[Wingnut]

Bytor, thanks so much for that reminder. I think sometimes it's maybe easy to sit back and say "well, when they get to the other side, they'll understand, and then they'll accept it because they'll be able to see the whole picture." I don't believe that that is necessarily true. I think that it's our responsibility now to help our family members progress toward (and within) the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and not wait around for all things to reveal themselves. When we don't, we bring condemnation upon ourselves. At the same time, for our family members and other loved ones to sit back with the attitude you described (I know, I just don't want to change), they bring upon themselves their own condemnation -- more and more as they continue to knowingly not follow the Lord.

[Mirium]

What if they have never felt the spirit or gained a testimony though?

Are you saying that if my husband doesn't join the church in this life that there is no hope for us?

If that is the case if he dies before me would there be no point in my being sealed to him?

This has always worried me

[foreverafter]

Boy, if what Elder McConkie was saying is true than it would be the most ridiculous thing in the world to stay married to someone who won't join the church or to a member who won't repent from serious sin. For the marriage is all for nothing & a righteous spouse will have to find some new spouse anyway so why not sooner than later, so you don't fall in love even more & cause yourself even more pain. Better to live this life with a righteous spouse than an unrighteous one, member or non-member, if there is no hope of being with them in the next life.

Such teachings if true would cause even more divorces than we already have, when people realize how futile staying together is. Why do the Prophets say "Never give up on an unrighteous spouse" if there is almost no chance they will repent in this life (for most don't) & there is no hope for them in the next life? If our love, sacrifice, suffering & service for our errant spouse has no power than why do it? It's too painful to be worth staying 5 minutes with an unrighteous spouse if your love & faithfulness can't help save them in the next life.

I personally believe what many Prophets have taught, one being Brigham Young, who said that if you are worthy of the Celestial Kingdom but your spouse isn't, you will get to decide what to do with them (bring them into the Celestial with you or not) & they will be very glad to get to you there. And as Joseph Smith taught, our marriage vows & love are more powerful than we know, to save our errant children & especially & more so, to save our errant spouses. But we may only be able to get them to the Celestial Kingdom, like the Prodical Son was allowed to live in the Father's home as a family member but not deserving it or owning anything there cause he had wasted his inheritance. It was all because of the love of his Father that let him be there. We can't get Exaltation for our errant children or spouses, for that must be earned by the individual. But our love & faithfulness to our marriage vows & spouse, has huge rewards & power we don't even understand yet.

Edited March 1, 2009 by foreverafter

[bytor2112]

What if they have never felt the spirit or gained a testimony though?

Are you saying that if my husband doesn't join the church in this life that there is no hope for us?

If that is the case if he dies before me would there be no point in my being sealed to him?

This has always worried me

I think the key to Elder McConkie's story is that the person KNEW the church was true, but he refused to accept it in this life. For those who have dear family members that haven't come to that knowledge, I believe they will have the opportunity to accept the gospel in the Spirit world. Remember the Lord is perfect and he knows if we KNEW or not.

[jolee65]

From what I remember is that the woman will receive a worthy man to be with, and the husband not excepting is a heavenly servant to God. You cant do work for someone else if he is exposed to the truth and turns a blind eye, he will receive less then a person never hearing the truth.

[lilered]

If the first husband died and was not a member, then he would go to the spirit world awaiting someone to do his temple work by proxy. The sister who is a worthy member and was sealed to her 2nd husband via temple marriage would be with him for time and eternity. The first husband would have no claim on his wife in the eternities.

If the first husbands work is performed by proxy, he will be given the opportunity to accept or reject it. If he accepts it, then has a chance in the millenium to find a mate, if he doesnot accept it, he will not be allowed in the highest kindgom in the celestial world.

[daenvgiell]

ok so all of those answers were really insightful and I was glad to read them, but can anyone any my previous question?

[Tarnished]

but what if you choose to marry a non member, does that still apply? even though you have chosen to take this path? the path of not having a temple marriage/sealing?

Sorry to resurrect an old thread but I wanted to address this question.

If you choose to marry a non member, for whatever reason, and they never join the church and you are never sealed to them there are a few options.

If you have lived worthy of the Celestial Kingdom then after judgment day you will be able to enter the Celestial Kingdom. However, you will not be able to enter into the highest degree of glory in that kingdom as you have not completed the final covenant which is a temple sealing.

Now, lets say that after you and your spouse die someone comes along and does the temple work for your spouse, finishing it off by sealing you together. If your spouse accepts the work that has been done for them then you as a couple are sealed and are eligible to obtain the highest degree of glory in the Celestial Kingdom based on the judgment received at judgment day. As this is something that we have some revelation on but not a full knowledge of we don’t know all the things that go into the final decision.

On the other hand if your spouse does not accept the work that has been done for them then you will be given the opportunity to find another worthy mate.

However, using the example of the husband who lived his life in a very despicable manner while his wife was as righteous as she could be, (from what I understand) she could not bring him with her to the Celestial Kingdom. As “no unholy thing can enter into the presence of the Lord” he would not be able to join her in the Celestial Kingdom, but she could come to visit him in whatever kingdom he ended up in.

As I mentioned above, much of this is based on very minimal revelation and thus a lot of it is guesswork.

Edited April 9, 2009 by Tarnished

[MarginOfError]

If you both converted to the Gospel after your marriage, than your marriage can be as eternal as anyone else's if one spouse, at least, stays loving & faithful to the other, even if the other never joins the Church in this life. Don't worry or put pressure on a spouse to join, just love & serve them above your own needs & desires all you can & your marriage will eventually be forever. That's a promise from a Prophet - Pres. Hinckley. It's very simple. If the husband dies before he joins & the wife has kept her covenants, then it is still the same, the marriage can be still be forever. He will be taught the gospel & repent in the next life. The surviving wife can be sealed to a new husband in the meantime.

This is treading on some very shaking ground The way you place your words makes it sound as if, “If one spouse is faithful and the other never accepts the Gospel, the other will be taught and will without question repent in the Spirit World.” It almost sounds like the other is not given a choice, which would mean he or she is forced to accept the Gospel and repent in the Spirit World. That is wholly contrary to what the Gospel teaches.

(You say that President Hinckley taught what you have stated, but I have no recollection of these teachings. I would appreciate it if you provided some resources to support this claim.)

It is imperative that we understand that agency still exists. Any person who does not accept the Gospel in mortality may still choose to reject it after his or her death. So, theoretically, a sister whose husband never joins the Church may still be in a bit of a pickle if her husband continues to reject the Gospel following mortality.

Also, it is interesting to note that a careful reading of Doctrine and Covenants 76 suggests that a person who has the opportunity to accept the Gospel* in mortality, but refuses to do so, may be limited to Terrestrial glory, even if he accepts the Gospel post-mortem. (See vv 71 – 76, esp 74).

Let’s extend this to the situation cited by Elder McConkie. We have a man who knows the Gospel is true, but refuses to accept it because he does not want to make the lifestyle change. Suppose further that his wife lives a life worthy of Celestial glory; that following her husband’s death, his temple work is done and she is sealed to him by proxy; and that he accepts the Gospel in the Spirit World and all the temple ordinances performed on his behalf. Unfortunately, by the guidelines in D&C 76, this brother still cannot obtain Celestial glory. So we have a sealed couple where one is in the Celestial Kingdom and one is in the Terrestrial Kingdom. Is this truly an exalted state for the wife? Is she actually able to enjoy Celestial glory without presence of her husband? Most speculate that to fully enjoy the blessings of exaltation requires that a man and woman be jointly present. If such speculation is true, allowing her into the Celestial kingdom without a spouse falls well short of exaltation.

The most correct answer to the original question in this thread is, “We don’t know.” Likely, it’s something that will get worked out when the time comes that it needs to be worked out. What we do know is that the Lord will consider all of these things in the context of what each individual knew and understood when they made the decisions that they made. All people worthy of exaltation will be given the opportunity to enjoy its blessings to the fullest.

* What qualifies as an opportunity to accept the Gospel is somewhat open-ended. I couldn’t give you a source, but I seem to recall hearing a discussion about this topic at one point in my life in which it was mentioned that in order for someone to have an opportunity, they need to hear the Gospel in their own language, comprehend it, and be moved upon by the Spirit. The second and third of those criteria are difficult for us to evaluate, and so we should probably refrain from making judgments about whether or not individuals have had a full opportunity.