i want to marry you but...

[yohoya]

Well my problem is a lot like some of the others ive seen on here. silly relationships. i need to honestly pour my heart out and i really hope you guys hear me. i have no one else to go to. i apologize in advance for how long this will be!

my boyfriend and i have been dating for almost two years and have decided we want to get married (we've picked out rings and have been talking it over for months, though its not official yet). he was born and raised in the church, and i was not. my family started going to church when i was 4, my mom and older brothers were baptized and when i was 8 i chose to get baptized. we rarely went to church (a few times a year) and stopped going altogether when i was about 10. my mom and i went to young womens when i was old enough on and off, but eventually stopped again. when i was 14 i had a most excellent experience which i guess was my real conversion to the gospel. :) (youth conference) my parents we separating at the time and home hadnt been a very uplifting place growing up. my life really turned around then, and i stayed very active and interested in the church all through high school. my family does not consider themselves lds, and i dont talk to them much about the church unless they want to. my dad and i had lots of trouble growing up because he felt it was a cult, so its kept its distance.

when i was 18 (2006) i moved to provo where i met david. he started dating a few months later and have been very inseparable since. weve always got along great, though unfortunately (i never wanted this!) had a few stupid dramatic fights, where i came crying to my friends over it, swearing it was over, and then we were together again by the end of the week. this has made some of my friends skeptical about him. he is a little weird, but so am i, and i really shouldnt have told them so much of my side. i was very scared and confused and i think theyre being protective of me, but you be the judge...

david comes from a small family that are lds, and are all rather depressed. most of his family is divorced, and those married all seem to have loveless marriages. i dont exaggerate, its really depressing. it seems to be a trend to marry the wrong person.

his uncle, a few years older than he, was sealed in the temple and cheated on his wife.

his twin brother ran away with a girl and was sealed. she denounced the church soon after, lied to everyone that he was beating her, and left him for an old boyfriend, a recent RM.

his grandfather has stated marrying his grandmother was a huge mistake and he regrets it, openly in front of her and the family.

his mom married a man no one approved of, was sealed and had 3 kids. (david, his twin and their sister). he quickly stopped going to church, cheated on her, quit his job, etc, and left her. then came back, kidnapped david and his brother, and they eventually got divorced. mom won custody. david just met his father for the first time. he hadnt seen him since he was 4, and no one spoke of him. hes only known his mom side of the family.

umm, im trying to give you some insight on the environment hes been brought up in. his family isnt horrible by any means, but theyre very troubled and its made him pretty troubled. he believes in the fundamentals of the church and loves it, but struggles with details and doesnt have a real testimony. what worries him are things he cant get a straight answer about, like j. smith having more than one wife. i know some of this relies on faith, but he cant grasp it. he hasnt many good experiences in the church with the people. its been hard for him to ask questions comfortably. hes asking to strengthen his knowldge, not attack the church. he doesnt hold the melchzidict preisthood since he didnt serve a mission and hasnt really gone to the temple (last time he was maybe 13 for baptisms).

after dating for a few months in provo, david got a job in salt lake and decided to move there. i had just finished a horrible semester at byu and was eager for a break, so we decided to move away together. we had trouble finding new places, and after a lot of talking we decided to move in together. we didnt know each other that well, and tho none of our friends approved,( his family didnt know anything of it for months, but my family knew) it worked out. we got a nice apartment with separate rooms and bathrooms. weve been living here for over a year now. i guess its been a taste of marriage.

we had premartial sex very soon after we got together. 2 years before we met, david was dating a nice girl and was falling in love. one night, they were together alone in his apartment (byu housing, so you know, the living room) and were kissing/ cuddling. she slowly got more adventurous and before he knew it she was strataling him... the save you the details he was in essence raped. this took a long time for me to understand, but it wasnt that she pinned him down like you would think, she was very quick and over stimulated him, to put it nicely. he was honestly very innocent with her up until then. she was his first kiss. she had, he found out later, been with many men before him (she was about 19) and took took advantage of him. this opened pandoras box, they had sex more, but decided after a few weeks to break up and tell the bishop because they wanted to be temple worthy. though they lived in the same apartment complex, they were told never to "see" each other, and were put on probation for at least a year. cindy, his exgirlfriend, stopped going to church after that and started partying and dating. he was very crushed, as they had broken up to be together again, and repented for months. he eventually lost the will to try when he felt his prayers werent heard. (cindy eventually got pregnant, married, and is now sealed in the temple :)

in a nutshell, this is our background. i have simple but strong testimony of the gospel, and am willing to move away from david and do everything necessary to go to the temple first. he would much rather get married civialy and soon, and go to the temple in a year. he doesnt feel he can handle being away from me and being alone while we repent. i am concerned about this because if he doesnt have a testimony now, will he ever have one? will he strive to get one? what if he gives up again? if he decides not to ever go to the temple, i dont think our marriage would last. he knows i feel that way. i love him and i trust him, and i think i can trust him enough to marry him now and wait for him to be ready to go to the temple. this could be an extremely amazing and priceless experience to me, helping him find his testimony. it has and will strengthen mine, and could make our relationship more deep than i could ever imagine.

none of our friends or family know the details like this, and it may be easier to seperate if we had family to rely on. all my family is in california, including most of my friends, and have a just a few friends in provo. tho davids family is here, no one is close enough to be comfortable with besides his mom and brother, both of which are living with other people. (so the thought of both seperating and moving in with our parents is a bust.)

we havent gone to our bishop about anything yet. im scared of what he'll say, and i dont know him. we have been inactive since we moved in together and our records just got transferred. were meeting people from the ward this thursday.

so what should i do here? the good friends i have hate that i live with him and do not approve of us getting married if it wont be a temple marriage. its been an extremely upsetting and scary experience.i really need support in this decision, as were both getting cold feet now and then. marriage has never worked out in our families. all i have to talk to about this is david, and no offense, but hes all i ever talk to or see lol. i dont want to have a one sided perspective on this and realized a year from now we shouldnt have gotten married...

[Stampede]

I was struggling a couple years ago and yes, i was also scared to go to my bishop.

But Trust me, the bishop experience is NOT a scary thing. It is a wonderful experience if you are there to truely turn your life around. But you have to resolve to do WHATEVER the bishop will ask of you.

You need to pray about things and talk with your heavenly father to know if this David person is the right person for you. It does not matter what his testimony is like right now. If the Lord says so, it will all turn out wonderful in the end.

My wife and I got married civily first and we recently got sealed in the temple. she was not a member when we got married, but 6 months after we got married I was able to baptise her.

It may be that he is looking for a way to go back. It sounds like he loves you but is scared to go to church because of Sin. I know that is how i felt about it. If you do get married, it can provide a way for you two to truely repent and work on a real meaningful relationship and help to strengthen eachother's testimonies of the gospel.

But trust in the Lord, he knows what he is doing. The Lord knows what we need in order to get our life back on track, and sometimes you find those things in the most unlikely places. No matter where you go or what you do the Lord has a place and a purpose for you.

Start paying your tithing, reading scriptures together, praying every morning and night and you will see the difference it makes in your life. I know those things are difficult to remember sometimes but they are indeed necessary. I know from personal experience. I have been on your side of the fence before and i never want to go there and it pains me to see others who are in the same boat I was in. I wish so much for them to follow the savrior's voice and come back to the fold.

I promise you that if you follow the Bishop's counsel and pray about what to do that you will know for a sureity the choices you make will be the right ones. Your life will change forever.

Edited March 10, 2009 by Stampede

[FunkyTown]

I was struggling a couple years ago and yes, i was also scared to go to my bishop.

But Trust me, the bishop experience is NOT a scary thing. It is a wonderful experience if you are there to truely turn your life around. But you have to resolve to do WHATEVER the bishop will ask of you.

You need to pray about things and talk with your heavenly father to know if this David person is the right person for you. It does not matter what his testimony is like right now. If the Lord says so, it will all turn out wonderful in the end.

My wife and I got married civily first and we recently got sealed in the temple. she was not a member when we got married, but 6 months after we got married I was able to baptise her.

It may be that he is looking for a way to go back. It sounds like he loves you but is scared to go to church because of Sin. I know that is how i felt about it. If you do get married, it can provide a way for you two to truely repent and work on a real meaningful relationship and help to strengthen eachother's testimonies of the gospel.

But trust in the Lord, he knows what he is doing. The Lord knows what we need in order to get our life back on track, and sometimes you find those things in the most unlikely places. No matter where you go or what you do the Lord has a place and a purpose for you.

Start paying your tithing, reading scriptures together, praying every morning and night and you will see the difference it makes in your life. I know those things are difficult to remember sometimes but they are indeed necessary. I know from personal experience. I have been on your side of the fence before and i never want to go there and it pains me to see others who are in the same boat I was in. I wish so much for them to follow the savrior's voice and come back to the fold.

I promise you that if you follow the Bishop's counsel and pray about what to do that you will know for a sureity the choices you make will be the right ones. Your life will change forever.

I'm afraid for you.

I know that it's hard for you to hear a lot of this, but you should very strongly consider whether this man(Who you no doubt love) will be a good husband for you. You probably don't want to hear this, but I should point out a few things about what you've said:

1) He doesn't have a strong testimony - This is difficult at the best of times. He has reasons, I'm certain, but this doesn't bode well.

2) He had premarital sex and says the woman 'overstimulated him' to the point of rape. This is silly. He wanted to have sex and being 'overstimulated' is not an excuse. Forget premarital sex - That isn't what concerns me. What concerns me is that he isn't taking responsibility. There are those who mess up in that department: Even the strongest testimony can waver in the face of that temptation. What concerns me is that he isn't taking personal responsibility for it. This trait is practically a deal-breaker by itself.

3) He talks poorly about his ex. A lot. Considering she's now married and sealed in the temple despite her past, perhaps that should indicate that repentance and not blame is the most important aspect of life. This lack of respect for his ex is a strong indicator of what he will be like.

Honestly, all of this can be explained by the poor state mentally he is in due to family and history. He needs help, but you shouldn't throw your life away because you feel that you're the one who has to help him.

I hesitate to even write this, because I know that your heart is in a million different places. What you desperately want is not necessarily what is good for you. Be careful. Attend the temple. Pray and see if what I've said to you is true.

I worry. I perceive a lot of pain in your future if you marry this man.

[Stampede]

Funky,

People who don't want to face responsibility are just scared. Scared of the consequences. When they realize the consequences are worse when not taking responsibility, they change, I know that for a fact because i did. I was alot like this young man who she speaks of in my early youth. I convinced myself i was just "damaged" which started as a lie until i believed it myself.

The Gospel changes people. That is really what the gospel all about. Saying people cannot change and calling things "dealbreakers" from the get-go does not sound very forgiving and is flat wrong. to "Become" something implies change. and are we not exhorted to "become like a little child?"

Now, i do not even pretend to know the heart of this young man or the OP, I know for a fact people change when they gain a testimony. And sometimes it DOES take a while, sometimes it takes heartbreak and pain and suffering.

I was told by the Lord what i needed to do even though my wife was not a member of the Church. I'm not saying the lord will tell people the same thing, But you have to be willing to submit yourself to the Lord and do whatever he says. You must trust that he will guide you down the correct path. I was prepared to end my relationship with my wife if that was what the lord desired of me to do, but he didn't he had a plan and he has taken wonderful care of my family over the past 2 years.

none of us on the forum are equipped to tell this person what to do with thier life. The Lord prepares people for thier trials in life in very strange ways sometimes. The best thing she can do is pray about it for herself, and trust that the Lord knows what he is doing.

[FunkyTown]

Now, i do not even pretend to know the heart of this young man or the OP, I know for a fact people change when they gain a testimony. And sometimes it DOES take a while, sometimes it takes heartbreak and pain and suffering.

I agree, Stampede. Now, the question to the OP is this: Are you willing to go through the heartbreak, pain and suffering knowing that it isn't guaranteed he'll change? Knowing that you risk him being exactly the same man now twenty years from now, are you willing to risk it?

In fact, most people do not change. Pray for him, forgive him, but were I you I wouldn't risk my future happiness on a lark.

[yohoya]

david speaks respectfully of his ex. i mentioned the "rape" just to point out that though he had premarital sex, it was not his idea orginally. he does take responsibility for it, and still feels so guilty and upset over the whole thing. i agree, "rape" seems silly. it took a really long time to understand and respect how he felt about it. bottom one though, if he said he was raped, then he was. i probably didnt explain the situation too well, i try not to bring it up with him much so the details are fuzzy.

i also dont believe in "deal breakers" tho i often feel stupid, like i should. its easy to be taken advantage of, but i try being as understanding and forgiving as i can. everyones different though.

my heart IS in a million places right now, that was the perfect way to the put it funky. i am very worried and scared, but this is a risk i feel is ok to take with him. he is a very good man.

[yohoya]

and any marriage has the possibility of heartbreak, pain and suffering, right?

[Stampede]

tho i often feel stupid, like i should. its easy to be taken advantage of, but i try being as understanding and forgiving as i can. everyones different though

I want to tell you that you should NEVER feel stupid. sometimes things happen that are out of our control. However, It is easy to be taken advantage of when you are not cautious. But do not ever feel like you must feel stupid. we are here to make mistakes, repent and move on with our lives learning all that we can from our experiences here in this life.

Please Fast, and pray as soon as you can. Ask the Lord to help you know what is right. and i promise you that the lord will tell you what to do be it through a thought or feeling, or somethign someone else says, but at that moment you will know you have an answer to your prayers.

I placed an ultimatum to my wife right after i talked with the bishop when i became reactivated in the church. It was the scariest thing i think i have ever done. We either had to get married or find separate living arrangements. She began to distance herself from me but she did not give me an anwser yet. I felt as if i were going to lose her and i truely loved her, so i prayed and fasted. I needed to know what to do, and while i was praying i felt a simple thought come into my mind and i knew what i had to say to her. so i got up and went into the other room where she was, Said what i had to say. she just looked at me and said "Ok".

We were married 3 weeks later and it has been the best thing in my life so far, bar none.

My point to this story is not how to "save your relationship", my point is that the Lord answers prayers, and that your dillema sounds strikingly similar to that of my own a few years ago.

It requires faith. it requires a willingness to do what is asked of you. but, most importantly, it is worth it.

Edited March 10, 2009 by Stampede

[Stampede]

and any marriage has the possibility of heartbreak, pain and suffering, right?

Every marriage has those things, they come and go.

you have to remember that in the happiest of marriages, there is at times the worst sadness. "Opposition in all things."

Not every marriage can or ever will be picture perfect. But the Good in life completely outwieghs the Bad when you have the savior in your life to help you. Marriage is not just between you and your spouse, but it is a 3 way commitment between you, your spouse, and God.

In Alma 33:

23 And now, my brethren, I desire that ye shall plant this word in your hearts, and as it beginneth to swell even so nourish it by your faith. And behold, it will become a tree, springing up in you unto everlasting life. And then may God grant unto you that your burdens may be light, through the joy of his Son. And even all this can ye do if ye will. Amen

[FunkyTown]

and any marriage has the possibility of heartbreak, pain and suffering, right?

Totally right, Yohoya. :) It sounds like you're ready to push forward with this regardless of the consequences, which means you will probably be an amazing wife.

Just know that I'm concerned for you. This is not a step to take lightly.

Since you're determined to do it, you should both be determined to get married in the temple. It'll be a sacrifice, but if you both love one another, you should be willing to push for that rather than a normal marriage. It'll take hard work, but it will show both you and he that you're willing to work at it.

[aspenmgy]

In my opinion, you should not marry this man. I think you should speak with your bishop, become worthy to enter the temple and then see if you desire to be with this man. I'm certain you will find someone else by that time.

[applepansy]

I'm going to try to only state applicable facts.

1. Most people who marry civilly first do not go through the temple later. I didn't say "all" I said most. This is a fact. The stories you hear are exceptions to the rule.

2. Your choices have put you in a situation where to move forward in whichever direction will cause heartache.

3. Your Heavenly Father loves you.

4. You can only work on your own salvation. You cannot do this for someone else.

5. You cannot change another person. Only they can change themselves. We all have agency.

Suggestions: Go see your Bishop. Pray. Put your name on the temple prayer roll. Fast if necessary. Repent. Obey.

No matter what direction you go in from here there will be heartache. You need to decide which direction will be the best for you. Heavenly Father can help you decide. Your bishop can help and guide you. Sometimes not knowing your Bishop makes it easier to talk about these things.

I hope that this all works out for the best for all involved.

applepansy

[lilered]

My counsel would be to step back for a moment and view where you are really at. IMHO, you are at a crossroads that depending on how you choose, will determine your lifes course. If you and you boyfriend, choose to repent, seek you Bishops and honor his counsel, you will both once again return to the straight path that will lead you both to joy and happiness. In short, your eventual marriage will be built upon a strong foundation.

If you choose the other path which is immediate gratification by running from repentance and the right things you should do, get married, then try to go thru the temple. Your marriage will be built on a sandy foundation, that will end up with much unhappiness and disappointments.

Or

Your boyfriend may choose one path, and you the other, but the end result will still be the same for each one of you.

Think about it. May God bless you on your choices.

[Guest Alana]

Once you marry civilly it is no longer only up to you if you go to the temple to be sealed. That means you risk not being sealed to your husband or your children. I found myself in a situation very similar to yours. We wanted to go back to church, get right with Heavenly Father. So, we married civilly, so we were no longer 'living in sin' started the repentance process, met with bishops, went to church etc. Well, my husband is no longer active at all. It's been a long and painful process. If I could go back, I still would want to have married my husband. But, I wish I had the courage to move out and for us to get back to church on an individual basis. Then get married in the temple. This would have let us learn and grow the lessons I'm trying to learn now with a lot less heartache. As it is often with doing the right thing, it's a lot harder in the beginning but so much better in the long run. I would like to suggest that you CAN move out and work towards a temple marriage. If either of you are not willing to do this now, then you probably won't be willing to do it after being married outside of the temple. This may be a little harsh, but living together while not being married means you are a long way from where you need to be. Marriage isn't a cure all, a lot of times it makes it even easier for the negative things (lacking of a testimony) to drag on.... after all, you'd be married and that's good enough for now, right? I know you think the world of your guy. You love him and see all the positive things about him. Have you prayed and received an answer if you should marry him? If you haven't, or aren't able to receive an answer, then right now is not a good time to be getting married.

[Just_A_Guy]

There's an old saying (nevertheless true) that

"A woman marries a man thinking he'll change--and then he doesn't.

A man marries a woman thinking she won't change--and then she does."

We males are pretty simple animals, and what you see is more often than not what you're going to get. Keep that in mind. :)

[Madriglace]

Dear sister ... you are in a hard place. Like lilered said take a step back. Then ask yourself what your Savior would have you do? The first thing that will be required to start any repentance process in your case will be seperate living quarters ... this is a good thing. You say you see and talk to only him ... take a step back. I guarantee the view will be different from a few blocks away. Get some space and some time ... if you are close to a temple ... go to the grounds and let the Spirit lift you up and be sure to listen. You and only you can move you forward to where you need to be ... are you ready to take the chances that you have spoken of or are you ready to get yourself to a plce where the blessings promised to a worthy daughter of God are yours? You have to make the choice. Just remember that along with agency comes consequences ... are you ready to live with the consequences? You can't get away from them so you need to be ready to accept and live with them. Consequences or blessings?

I made mistakes and went through the process and from where I stand now there isn't a choice or should I say the choice has been made ... there is no substitute for the temple. You know where you should be and what you should do ... having the horrible wants makes it hard to see the clear path but you know what it is ... do you have the testimony to follow it? Never ever forget who you are and what was done for you. You are so loved ... never ever settle.

[Guest missingsomething]

I need to write this down so I can just copy and paste it...

Make a list of what you would want your "perfect" mate to be. Spiritually and temporally. Do 3 columns - Gotta Have or Deal breakers (to use your term)... Qualities to have and Cant be's.... Try to clear your head of your boyfriend when you do this. Then compare David to this. How does he messure up? If he didnt fair well, then chances are you will regret this decision.

Finally, it seems as though you have doubt in your heart now -otherwise you wouldnt be seeking out advice. A bishop once told me, Do not marry this man... at first, i was stunned. I couldn't believe what I was hearing. When I finally got over it.. I went back to him... and he had advised that he had prayed about it and knew that this decision would lead me down a bad path. My feelings were very strong for this boyfriend and I could NOT accept the bishop's words. I was HIGHLY critical of him. And then, without me even wanting to... it was like i had put glasses on...and began to see things I couldnt see before. I prayed and fasted about this - and I realized the bishop was inspired.

Pray and fast... discuss with your bishop.... have a blessing of comfort.

Breaking an engagement is much easier (even if you dont think so) than breaking a marriage.

Finally, are you ok with your husband being the person he is RIGHT NOW. YOu can not marry him thinking you will overcome the problems, that his family WONT influence your life, that his testimony will grow. Are you strong enough to support yourself and your future children alone in the gospel? go to church on sunday-- alone, do family home evening...alone, go to church activities- alone?

I agree that your boyfriend is not good at taking responsibility which is probably a combination of shear terror and also a learned behavior. What happens if you hit a bump in your marriage (which will happen because it happens to everyone)... is your relationship founded enough to get over it? Look at your relationship - is it one sided? One thing I have learned, friends aren't normally wrong. There is doubt there for a reason. And again, I really believe you are doubting this relationship as well. When it is right... when you meet the right person to spend eternity with --- YOU WILL KNOW... you will know deeper than any feeling of love or lust you have previously felt... and you will not need to seek out advice of what other people think. You will just know.

Good luck. While I dont always agree with funkytown, and i dont agree with everything he said... I do agree that I get the feeling you are setting yourself up for a long struggle. Why settle when the Lord can and will provide you with the loving relationship, healthy relationship, and faithful relationship that you, as a true Daughter of God, deserve.

[Cadley]

Several people have encouraged you to follow the Lord's guidance in this matter. There is no better advice than that. One thing I would add, though, as you're pondering this very difficult choice, everyone has struggles with their testimonies sometimes. You need a companion who can bear you up when you're weak. If this man persistently struggles with his testimony, he can't be your strength when you're struggling with yours. Marriage is really hard. I heard that a thousand times before I got married, and I never really believed it until I experienced it. You want everything possible going for you, and a temple marriage is a big part of that.

[jolee65]

Im sorry I couldnt even read it all I had already hit at least 10-15 red flags boy they need a red flag icon because that post would be all flags, lol.

Family history is just that the future and the past and its a endless cycle of mistakes, it sounds very ingrained.

[WillowTheWhisp]

I would strongly encourage you to talk to your Bishop about this. We can all give our opinions but we do not really know either of you and we do not have Heavenly Father's authority to guide you in this situation.

It may be difficult to approach a Bishop you do not know, but the very fact that you do not know him may also be a help in the situation. He will be guided by the Spiritin what he says to you and how he counsels you. Pray before you speak to him - fast too, it will help you to be able to talk to him about all your concerns and pray that he will be guided by the Spirit in how to help you. Follow his advice. Heavenly Father only wants what is best for you.

[Guest missingsomething]

Im sorry I couldnt even read it all I had already hit at least 10-15 red flags boy they need a red flag icon because that post would be all flags, lol.

Family history is just that the future and the past and its a endless cycle of mistakes, it sounds very ingrained.

I have to disagree that family history is just that the future and the past.

I have a family history of domestic violence, alcoholism, mental illness, low income, cant hold a job, etc...

And I am proud to say, I rose above it. I am not like my family and just because someone's family is messed up does NOT mean they will be to. While I will give you that perhaps you will say you were quoting this specific situation or that it is more likely to repeat itself, but I know many who have overcome and I really really really do not like such broad assumptive statements.

[Islander]

The single best indicator of future behavior is current behavior. Although we hear about uplifting and awesome stories of the power of the gospel and faith in the Savior to change people, they are the exception rather than the rule. The OPter already knows that the relationship is doomed and likely to fail. She is looking for encouragement to keep the illusion that it won't.

Truth be told, the pain and suffering that some have endured and continue to bare after going thru similar experiences can seldom be truly shared in a few lines on a forum. Love and infatuation are sorely overrated and a poor substitute for reason and good judgment.

Grandma just to say: "disobedience is a bet and the wager is pain. Whether now or later but the bet must be paid. Sometimes in tears (suffering) sometimes in blood (your very life)."