Jenamarie Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 A random thought that popped into my head today while thinking about this whole "Big Love" scandal... Is the Temple ceremony copyrighted? I'm pretty sure the Book of Mormon is, right? Would the church also seek to copyright the Temple ceremony, and might that be one way which they could address this whole Big Love thing? (copyright infringement). Just wondering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleWyvern Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 Wikipedia had a big fight over this a while ago. The conclusion is mixed: the LDS Church does have a copyright by default on published materials, but they've never tried to enforce it on other published depictions on the temple ceremony. So, unless somebody tried to sue someone over it, there's really no legal precedent for this situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dravin Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 And a lawsuit would not sent mesh with the, "let the tempest in the teapot blow over" position they've taken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 A random thought that popped into my head today while thinking about this whole "Big Love" scandal...Is the Temple ceremony copyrighted? I'm pretty sure the Book of Mormon is, right? Would the church also seek to copyright the Temple ceremony, and might that be one way which they could address this whole Big Love thing? (copyright infringement).Just wondering.The copyright on the original Book of Mormon text ran out long ago. The LDS Church does hold the copyright on the 1981 edition, including footnotes and chapter headings.All literary works can be considered copyrighted to their authors, but as others have pointed out, you would have to defend your copyright. The Church appears unwilling to go to court to defend the copyright for the endowment, so it might legally become public domain. As others have pointed out, it's really irrelevant; the endowment is meaningful only for those who actually participate in receiving it. Sex is sacred, too, regardless of its profane portrayal in popular media. Sacred things don't magically become non-sacred just because wicked and carnal people try to make them common. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gabelpa Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Trademark needs to be defended in all cases or risk losing it. This is not so with copyright, otherwise the MPAA and RIAA would have lost most of their work to the public domain by now, through lack of prosecution. Personal rant left out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie123 Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 I remember seeing the complete Temple Endowment ceremony (an old and a new versions) posted on the Web about 10 years ago. I've no idea if it is still there. (Of course it might not have been genuine. It would be difficult for a non-Mormon like me to find out either way, as no faithful Mormon would be allowed to talk about it.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stampede Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 The entire ceremony is published in the library of congress, but i am not sure if that implies a copyright or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingnut Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 The entire ceremony is published in the library of congress, but i am not sure if that implies a copyright or not.I was talking with my husband this week about this issue, and he mentioned this very thing to me, that one can go to the Library of Congress and read the entire thing. He also mentioned that that's part of why the government stays out of our business and doesn't say anything about temples (which are not available to the general public). The text is there, and they know that we're not doing anything harmful or illegal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleWyvern Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 The entire ceremony is published in the library of congress, but i am not sure if that implies a copyright or not.You get a default copyright on all published materials whether you say so explicitly or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aranyborju Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 A random thought that popped into my head today while thinking about this whole "Big Love" scandal...Is the Temple ceremony copyrighted? I'm pretty sure the Book of Mormon is, right? Would the church also seek to copyright the Temple ceremony, and might that be one way which they could address this whole Big Love thing? (copyright infringement).Just wondering.Under U.S. Intellectual Property Laws, copyrights can only be obtained for original works of authorship that are fixed in a tangible form of expression. Generally a ceremony with participants would not fall under this category. The video portion would fall under I.P. laws, but we don't really know what will be included in the television show.Any lawsuit would be questionable at best, probably resulting in years of litigation, which would exacerbate and prolong an issue that will otherwise probably blow over in less than a month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 (edited) Under U.S. Intellectual Property Laws, copyrights can only be obtained for original works of authorship that are fixed in a tangible form of expression. Generally a ceremony with participants would not fall under this category. The video portion would fall under I.P. laws, but we don't really know what will be included in the television show.Any lawsuit would be questionable at best, probably resulting in years of litigation, which would exacerbate and prolong an issue that will otherwise probably blow over in less than a month.The performance is not copyrightable because of its ceremonial nature. But the endowment presentation is written down, and that written form has the same default copyright as any other written work. But as you point out, defending that copyright would be problematic and, even if successful, would create many more problems than it would resolve.PS I'm speaking according to my own understanding. I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on lds.net. Edited March 12, 2009 by Vort Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aranyborju Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on lds.net.LOL, so true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madriglace Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 I have never watched this program and don't have HBO because so much of the content is just garbage but I came up with a question this morning ... if this about an FLDS family why use the LDS endowment ? Why not theirs? Sorry to go of topic ... just asking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just_A_Guy Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 My understanding (and I should qualify this by saying that I don't do IP or copyright law; nor did I ever take any classes on the issue in law school) is that with stuff like this, you can either copyright it--make it public, but not allow it to be reproduced--or else denote it a "trade secret"--in which case you don't have to make it public; but if somebody leaks it you basically have little or no recourse. I believe the church opted to take the latter course of action vis a vis the temple ceremony. I didn't know that the Library of Congress had the temple ceremony in its entirety, but I understand that major parts of it were reproduced during the Reed Smoot hearings and are a matter of public record. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingnut Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 I have never watched this program and don't have HBO because so much of the content is just garbage but I came up with a question this morning ... if this about an FLDS family why use the LDS endowment ? Why not theirs? Sorry to go of topic ... just asking.I imagine it's probably pretty similar. Having also never watched the program, but only having done a brief amount of online research, I learned that the character that will be participating in the endowment in this episode was raised mainstream LDS, and is a first wife. It sounds like she "followed" her husband into polygamy, rather than jumping in from the beginning. I've also read people who have supposed that the showing of the endowment will be a flashback sequence, which would make sense, since the character is question is attending a disciplinary counsel, facing excommunication. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenamarie Posted March 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 I don't think it would be any better for them to show the FLDS ceremony. I'm sure they hold their Temple ceremonies just as sacred as we hold ours. HBO would just be offending a different group of people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 I don't think it would be any better for them to show the FLDS ceremony. I'm sure they hold their Temple ceremonies just as sacred as we hold ours.The FLDS have temple ceremonies? I thought I remembered hearing that many polygamists hid their affiliation and pretended to be LDS in good standing so that they could go through the (LDS) temples and receive the ordinances. Is this incorrect? (I hope so.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenamarie Posted March 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 I honestly don't know. I only know that the Yearning for Zion ranch has a Temple, and the members were VERY VERY upset when it was raided by government officials. That would lead me to guess that they have their only ceremonies that are very sacred to them. They did NOT want that Temple defiled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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