Lean to the left! Lean to the right! Whatever!

[Elphaba]

Poll: Increased Support for Gay Marriage

Support for gay marriage, legalizing illegal immigrants and decriminalizing marijuana all are at new highs. Three-quarters of Americans favor federal regulation of greenhouse gases. Two-thirds support establishing relations with Cuba.

If some views that may be perceived as liberal are ascendant, so are some conservative ones: Opposition to gun control is also at a new high in the latest ABC News/Washington Post poll. There's continued broad support for tighter border controls. And contrary to President Obama, half of Americans wouldn't flatly rule out torturing terrorism suspects.

Elphaba

[Palerider]

I am praying to Zeuss that the Republicans take over......LOL!!!!!!!!

Wait....I read that somewhere .....trying to remember where......LOL!!!!!!!!!!!

[pam]

Please tell me I'm reading this incorrectly. Elphaba stating "contrary to President Obama?"

[a-train]

This demonstrates the arbitrary and whimsical approach to the role of government which now pervades the political culture of America. The only coherency to American political theory is the motto: 'Government can make me better off.' Liberal theory is virtually a bygone relic, lost in the pages of unread books.

Somehow, the salesmen of Europe have convinced much of America that their bankrupt system is better than the American school. America wants to become Europe with one exception: guns and torture.

Much of the pro-marijuana people only want the tax revenue for new pet projects, Wall Street has managed to dupe the populace into letting them launch a new trading scheme in carbon emission rights which has made some of their buddies across the pond a good bundle, government's role in social programming through the tax code is now so embraced that people are fighting for the 'right' to be so programmed, immigration is only feared because of the notion that the presence of new Americans will detract from the benefits already enjoyed by those of us already here, guns have proved to be a good recession-proof business, and torture is viewed as a necessary evil in providing protection. The whole system is moved by the perception of the answer to the question: "What's in it for me?". It is the very definition of arbitrary.

-a-train

[Elphaba]

Please tell me I'm reading this incorrectly. Elphaba stating "contrary to President Obama?"

Well, I, Elphaba, did not state it, but I, Elphaba, did quote it.

And, no, it never once occurred to me to delete that sentence, but I know all of you cynics out there are thinking it, so get that thought out of your head right now! I have the highest of standards when it comes to quoting things accurately (as demonstrated by my terrible behavior with bodhigirl).

Hey, it is what it is. Obama gets to be wrong now and then. After all, he is not THE Messiah.

I can handle it.

Elphaba

[Guest Godless]

Screw it, I'm moving to Canada. And I'm taking my weed with me.

[FunkyTown]

This demonstrates the arbitrary and whimsical approach to the role of government which now pervades the political culture of America. The only coherency to American political theory is the motto: 'Government can make me better off.' Liberal theory is virtually a bygone relic, lost in the pages of unread books.

Somehow, the salesmen of Europe have convinced much of America that their bankrupt system is better than the American school. America wants to become Europe with one exception: guns and torture.

Much of the pro-marijuana people only want the tax revenue for new pet projects, Wall Street has managed to dupe the populace into letting them launch a new trading scheme in carbon emission rights which has made some of their buddies across the pond a good bundle, government's role in social programming through the tax code is now so embraced that people are fighting for the 'right' to be so programmed, immigration is only feared because of the notion that the presence of new Americans will detract from the benefits already enjoyed by those of us already here, guns have proved to be a good recession-proof business, and torture is viewed as a necessary evil in providing protection. The whole system is moved by the perception of the answer to the question: "What's in it for me?". It is the very definition of arbitrary.

-a-train

I hadn't thought about that, A-Train, but I think you're right. The arbitrary nature of Liberal vs. Conservative is becoming increasingly a straightjacket to prevent people from voting their conscience. I can't even disagree with your assessment that the countries are bankrupt, but I would suggest that both Europe and North America are suffering the same malaise.

In fact, when the baby boomer generation retires, skyrocketing medical costs will bankrupt any country that attempts to care for its increasingly sick elderly while those who do not will suddenly find a vast increase in poverty amongst its population as the young are forced to care for the elderly who only had one or two kids.

I'd simply say every country is on the verge of bankruptcy. There obviously needs a new way forward and people are coming to realize that a two party system doesn't meet their needs, but they feel helpless to change it.

I don't know what the answer is.

[a-train]

I can't even disagree with your assessment that the countries are bankrupt, but I would suggest that both Europe and North America are suffering the same malaise.

Oh they definitely are. The U.S. was far behind, but the last couple of decades have seen a major catch-up. What complicates the financial trouble is the fact that the effects of the current economic scare have yet to be summed up and subtracted from the already dismal picture of the future.

-a-train

[Elphaba]

IThe arbitrary nature of Liberal vs. Conservative is becoming increasingly a straightjacket to prevent people from voting their conscience.

I actually see this as the opposite.

I think both parties had rigid confines with which its members had to restrict themselves too, and now they're all tired of it, so they are starting to vote their conscience more, rather than less.

I do believe an entrenched faction of the Republican Party is making concerted efforts to tighten that restrictrion, moving more to the right, thus squeezing out moderates. For example, while I know Specter's reason for jumping ship is driven purely by ambition, I also think he was one of those moderates being squeezed out. I think this will only cause the Party to further implode, rather than re-emerge.

On another post I linked an article about the "Vanishing Young Republicans," and I think it addresses the future party that must emerge, or it will implode completely. This version of the Republican Party is much more inclusive, consistently demanding fiscal conservatism, but rejecting the social conservatism of the party's previous decades.

I see this as people's refusals to be bound by the party's own rigid confines. For example, there is a woman who is pro-choice but a staunch Republican who was long ostracized to the fringes of the party. In the section that is moving even further to the right, she still is. But in the more moderate faction of the party, she is now welcomed.

The same is true for the Democratic Party. There was a time when a woman who was pro-life was not be taken seriously, or even accepted, by the Party. That is changing, as it is beginning to realize it will only succeed if it accepts people who believe in the Party's commitment to the American people's well-being, but who otherwise have differing ideaologies that would have previously been rejected by the Party.

The example of the liberals switching to opposing gun control really surprised me, though I think a-train's explanation that it is situational makes sense. But I still believe there was a time when the Party would have squashed that immediately, thus leaving out another faction of people who believed in its core principles, but felt unwanted.

I see all of this as a good thing, and am impressed with the American people's refusal to allow either Party to pigeonhole them.

I look forward to the day when I am really old, (as opposed to newly old), where I'll be out on my front porch, sitting in my rocking chair, and will suddenly have to surreptitiously shove my false teeth back in because I see a Republican canvassing my neighborhood. Perhaps he'll take a moment to stop and talk to me, and we'll discover our respective parties have politically evolved to the point where we have more in common than would ever seem possible today.

Naive, I know. But, one can hope.

Elphaba

[bytor2112]

I somewhat agree with your assessment Elphaba. However, I think this election boiled down to fatigue. Americans left and right wanted change and McCain didn't offer it and the Republicans have long lost the right to claim to be fiscal conservatives. Include the economic meltdown in October and Obama was a sure bet, especially against a weak candidate like McCain.....what an inept campaign he ran. One has to wonder if that would have been an example of his administration if he had won.The Republican message is appealing, smaller government, lower taxes, family values and a strong national defense, but their actions have made the appeal seem very hollow. Additionally, Republicans have a difficult time selling their ideas to the American public because they lack specifics for the "dinner table" issues......though I think it unfortunate that many of these issues are now seen as MUST be solved by the federal government. The Republicans will return......when they stop trying to be Democrats and live up to their claims. Sadly, that may not for a very long time, too many spaghetti spined worms in congress.

[rameumptom]

I'd like us to get back to the Constitution. It is a set of rules for all to live by and to be ruled by (peons and Congress alike). It means giving more power to the people and the States, and little remaining in the fed.

If this were the case, then states that wished to legalize marijuana could do so, without a federal fight. States wishing to restrict abortions could do so, and those people wishing a more liberal lifestyle could move to a liberal state (and the same for conservatives to conservative states).

Freedom would be maximized, and totalitarianism from either party (economic or social) would be minimized. Definitely something to think about.

[jameslentz]

I think most of this could be solved by enacting one law....Term Limits in Congress....limit the terms allowed to be served and you immediately get rid of the career politician and get new blood and new ideas every so often on both sides of the aisle....if it's good enough for the office of the President then it should be good enough for the rest....and while we are at it limit all elected public officials....that would make life a lot more interesting dont ya' think

[Moksha]

Elphaba hit upon my favorite political cheer:

Lean to the left.

lean to the right

stand up

sit down

Fight, fight, fight!

[a-train]

For example, there is a woman who is pro-choice but a staunch Republican who was long ostracized to the fringes of the party. In the section that is moving even further to the right, she still is. But in the more moderate faction of the party, she is now welcomed.

<----Sandra Day O'Connor.

I am glad to see the parties falling to pieces. What troubles me though is that the situation may simply mean the total power of the Democrats. Certainly, as the oldest party on earth, it has a history of staying power. The trouble is that it lacks any coherent political philosophy. Perhaps the future of America could include proportional representation.

-a-train

Edited May 2, 2009 by a-train

[Elphaba]

Elphaba hit upon my favorite political cheer:

Lean to the left.

lean to the right

stand up

sit down

Fight, fight, fight!

That's where I was going, but the title wouldn't allow that many words.

Whatever!

Elph

[Elphaba]

What troubles me though is that the situation may simply mean the total power of the Democrats.

Contrary to a number of other posters here, I do think the Democrats will stay in power for at least the next eight years.

However, I believe if it stays in power any longer than that, it will also implode on itself. Either extreme never works in the long run.

Plus, I think these things are cyclical, or at least, that's what I kept telling myself during Bush's entire presidency.

Elphaba

[Palerider]

The last Presidential Election...I feel alot of people who would have voted for a Republican President did not because they could not identify with John McCain. I myself voted for McCain but, deep inside their was a cringe. :)

[a-train]

Contrary to a number of other posters here, I do think the Democrats will stay in power for at least the next eight years.

However, I believe if it stays in power any longer than that, it will also implode on itself. Either extreme never works in the long run.

The best thing the Republicans can do to destroy the Democrats is give them no opposition. When they have no one to blame for all the foibles of their policies, the public opinion will turn.

-a-train

[rameumptom]

What the Republicans can do is return to Constitutional principles of small government and freedom. THEN there will be a real choice.

Until then, we just have two progressive parties that have their favorite ideologies to push forward, but the taxing, spending, debt, and loss of freedom end up being the same.

[rameumptom]

I think most of this could be solved by enacting one law....Term Limits in Congress....limit the terms allowed to be served and you immediately get rid of the career politician and get new blood and new ideas every so often on both sides of the aisle....if it's good enough for the office of the President then it should be good enough for the rest....and while we are at it limit all elected public officials....that would make life a lot more interesting dont ya' think

This wouldn't fix everything. Even politicians who are limited in terms could still do mass damage. We need to educate the people on Constitutional principles of freedom, so they will elect statesmen, and not politicians.

[Palerider]

Another quote from Ronnie.....Could you imagine what the 10 Commandments would like if Moses had to run them thru Congress....

[trulykiwi]

This left and right thing is just so dumb! I think we are lead to believe there is a left and a right, but to me it is the two wings on the same bird....bbbaaaaahhhhhhh say the sheep!

[blusun7]

Machinations is all i can say. We are heading down a path of destruction no matter what.

The constitution needs to be restored but like Joseph smith said one day the the constitution would hang by a string. Now you can see slowly beginning.I hate to see what it would be like all inactive. This land will be cursed with evil,not that it isnt already but it will be alot worse. I dont follow politics anymore. Its a game the they knows how to play very well.

Congress has been captured by satan. Its done...game over