Difference between Telestial and Terrestrial

[aj4u]

Where?

[Justice]

Look for "Belief, Works, and Faith" right here is Gospel Discussions

[aj4u]

We each will be judged individually.. based on our life experience... I have a feeling Fahter in Heaven will be much kinder to us than we are to ourselves.

When it comes to matters of the soul, our feelings make a wonderful servant but a very poor leader!

It is written: "My people perish for lack of knowledge" Many people believe in Jesus in different ways; for instance, Muslims believe He is a great prophet but not the Son of God. Cults like Jehovah Witnesses believe Jesus is the only angel God calls His son. Moreover, there are other Christians that believe that Jesus is a created being.

All Christians build on the foundation of Christ in different ways, but some will receive rewards and some will suffer loss. All will suffer loss, however, regardless of what they do if they don't know who Jesus really is and how to build on the chief corner stone foundation of our eternal souls.

Jesus is the Word of God made flesh. Jesus is God in the flesh; He is the creator of every living creature on earth and at all levels and dimensions of heaven. When it comes to knowing Jesus, tithing is the very least of my concerns. To know Christ, NOT ABOUT Him, is to have eternal life!

[Pilgrim2]

Are interested in their doctrine or in being a LDS?

Want to sharpen skills in witnessing for future use with family or whoever....and am open to hearing if LDS have answers to questions that I have. And you??

Pilgrim2

[Pilgrim2]

I've been following this thread from a distance. It seems to have mutated from the original topic of differences between the kingdoms of heaven into a head butting Grace vs. Works. Seems like its about time for me to toss my hard head into the fray.

I grew up in Texas with a bunch of born again christians who kept on asking me if I was saved. I'd then have to have a semantic discussion with them about what the term saved actually denotes and then I would reply - Yes I have. They would then disagree with me and try to point out how I was not saved according to their defination. It was a complete waste of time.

Well im gonna try to bring the discussion of kingdoms of heaven and Grace vs. Works back together.

If your religion believes that heaven is a place where you rest from your labors and spend the rest of eternity glorifying God then you are absolutely correct in your declaration that we can only be saved by grace alone.

On the other hand... If your religion believes that heaven is a place where we will continue to progress and have the opportunity to be co-equal with God. Then Grace alone will NOT let you enter into the gates of that kingdom. Works are required to gain exaltation.

The problem with this thead is that most of us are talking about the Celestial Kingdom. Whereas some of us are talking about the Telestial Kingdom. Its all perspective.

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You are right that unless we agree on just what any "salvation" gets us in the future (or where)... it is an exercise in talking past one another to talk about how one gets that salvation. I posed a question earlier and no one has responded.... I doubt that the terrestrial and telestial kingdoms EXIST AT ALL! I see in Rev. 20:15 that if one's name is not in the book... it is the lake of fire... and if one's name IS in the book (Rev. 21:24-27) it appears those saved ones will have access to the very throne of God. MY QUESTION IS: What other options can there be besides name in book....and name not in book? It looks like heaven/hell choices to me. ? ? ?

Pilgrim 2

[aj4u]

- - - - - -

You are right that unless we agree on just what any "salvation" gets us in the future (or where)... it is an exercise in talking past one another to talk about how one gets that salvation. I posed a question earlier and no one has responded.... I doubt that the terrestrial and telestial kingdoms EXIST AT ALL! I see in Rev. 20:15 that if one's name is not in the book... it is the lake of fire... and if one's name IS in the book (Rev. 21:24-27) it appears those saved ones will have access to the very throne of God. MY QUESTION IS: What other options can there be besides name in book....and name not in book? It looks like heaven/hell choices to me. ? ? ?

Pilgrim 2

I think I agree.

[Justice]

1 Corinthians 15:

40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead.

Of course they exist. The problem you have is trying to understand them without modern revelation. :)

Your comment is true. If your name is not written in the book of life you will be cast into the lake of fire, which is NOT a kingdom of glory.

If your name is, then you will be given a kingdom of glory, it might be Celestial, Terrestrial, or Telestial. There are even different glories within those kingdoms. However, there are MANY mansions with many different kingdoms in Father's house.

John 14:

2 In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Look, this is an LDS forum. Most of those who post here use the Bible, but also use other scripture that clarifies many of these points you have been discussing. If you really want to understand our view, you should read some of those scriptures.

Here is a link for you:

Scriptures

Hint: Start with the Book of Mormon.

Edit: Oh, and if you do, start with the Title Page and go on from there so you'll know exactly what it is you're reading.

Edited May 12, 2009 by Justice

[Hemidakota]

"This is where Christianity lost its faith"

Hemidakota, would you describe yourself as being a member of Christianity. I have read many post of LDS members that say they are. .....and if you are, have you lost your faith? Please explain your position regarding this bold statement.

I am a follower of the true living Christ. Most claimed Christians do not even know where this title originated and why.

What is faith without works? What is works without faith? Remember the words of Paul to the converted Jews? It requires both and then some. It doesn't still guarantee you sit next to the Godhead without the approval of the Holy Ghost.

[Hemidakota]

But I already know the Savior personally! In fact, He is in heart now! He said, "Behold I stand at the door and knock if any man hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and sup with him and he with me." Rev 3:10 I heard him knocking, and I opened the door to let him in. If you hear him knock, you can do the same as I.

I didn't know a resurrected being can be inside of you? Ugh...no. If you know Him personally, He will attend to you in person when needs be. Has this happen?

[aj4u]

I didn't know a resurrected being can be inside of you? Ugh...no. If you know Him personally' date=' He will attend to you in person when needs be. Has this happen?[/quote']He is in me in the form of the Holy Spirit who is God or has the very same spirit as Jesus. The Bible does not tell us to concentrate on Celestial, Telestial and Terrestial Kingdoms (CTTK) nor are we told to try to figure out the essences of the Holy Trinity (Father, Son Holy Spirit). We could never understand God's essences and nature or substance. It is a waste of time and trips people off to the point they offer strange fire as service to God's kingdom and weird teachings that involves the speculation of man. What is important is to know who Jesus is according to the Scriptures any more than this comes from evil. For instance, we know that Jesus is God. We know he has not been created. We know He created all things. We know in Him dwells the fullness of the Godhead. We know He is God’s Glory and the exact expression of all that God is in terms of essence being and substance. Jesus said that where I am you may be also. Who on earth cares about CTTK if we are with Him?

[bytor2112]

He is in me in the form of the Holy Spirit who is God or has the very same spirit as Jesus. The Bible does not tell us to concentrate on Celestial, Telestial and Terrestial Kingdoms (CTTK) nor are we told to try to figure out the essences of the Holy Trinity (Father, Son Holy Spirit). We could never understand God's essences and nature or substance. It is a waste of time and trips people off to the point they offer strange fire as service to God's kingdom and weird teachings that involves the speculation of man. What is important is to know who Jesus is according to the Scriptures any more than this comes from evil. For instance, we know that Jesus is God. We know he has not been created. We know He created all things. We know in Him dwells the fullness of the Godhead. We know He is God’s Glory and the exact expression of all that God is in terms of essence being and substance. Jesus said that where I am you may be also. Who on earth cares about CTTK if we are with Him?

The very reason that Joseph Smith was told "that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight;" is because of the misunderstanding of the Godhead. A rudimentary understanding of the history of Constantine, the early church and the Council of Nicea should lead one to understand that those creeds that so distort and confuse who Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost are not inspired and are nothing more than the doctrines of man or as you put it......."weird teachings that involves the speculation of man."

[bytor2112]

- - - - - -

You are right that unless we agree on just what any "salvation" gets us in the future (or where)... it is an exercise in talking past one another to talk about how one gets that salvation. I posed a question earlier and no one has responded.... I doubt that the terrestrial and telestial kingdoms EXIST AT ALL! I see in Rev. 20:15 that if one's name is not in the book... it is the lake of fire... and if one's name IS in the book (Rev. 21:24-27) it appears those saved ones will have access to the very throne of God. MY QUESTION IS: What other options can there be besides name in book....and name not in book? It looks like heaven/hell choices to me. ? ? ?

Pilgrim 2

Looks like you haven't been LDS very long......or you don't have a testimony.

[bytor2112]

Want to sharpen skills in witnessing for future use with family or whoever....and am open to hearing if LDS have answers to questions that I have. And you??

Pilgrim2

I notice that your profile states that you are LDS.....no?

[Justice]

We could never understand God's essences and nature or substance.

I don't understand the trinity either, I'll give you that much.

It seems impossible to know something you can't understand.

Seems like a contradiction to know something you can't understand.

[bytebear]

The very reason that Joseph Smith was told "that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight;" is because of the misunderstanding of the Godhead. A rudimentary understanding of the history of Constantine, the early church and the Council of Nicea should lead one to understand that those creeds that so distort and confuse who Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost are not inspired and are nothing more than the doctrines of man or as you put it......."weird teachings that involves the speculation of man."

I disagree as to why the creeds are an abomination to God. It isn't necessarily about the doctrines of believe stated in them. For the most part they are fairly similar to LDS belief and doctrine, particularly in the role and divinity of Jesus Christ.

The problem with the creeds as I see them, is that they take authority upon themselves to define the doctrines of God. They were not established by prophets of God, and no doctrine can be defined except by authority from God through prophecy.

[Justice]

They are an abomination because they are twisted and bent beyond recognition so that they no longer look like His Gospel. It most certainly is about the doctrines stated in them. At the time, Christianity basically all believed in the trinity. I wouldn't be surprised if that was the exact thing He was speaking about.

I love this "man doesn't have to do anything" doctrine. I can't spend 5 minutes in scripture without finding several scriptures that state the opposite. And the once saved always saved doctrine is near the top of this list also.

The thing about them being similar is that they often use the same words, but the words are understood so differently.

[aj4u]

The very reason that Joseph Smith was told "that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight;" is because of the misunderstanding of the Godhead. A rudimentary understanding of the history of Constantine, the early church and the Council of Nicea should lead one to understand that those creeds that so distort and confuse who Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost are not inspired and are nothing more than the doctrines of man or as you put it......."weird teachings that involves the speculation of man."

But I am not referring to Constantine, the early church and the Council of Nicea. I go by the Scriptures in the Bible. Can you find or prove that I have shared something that is not according to knowledge in Scripture? If not, what are you trying to convince me of? Do you not claim the Bible as the word of God? I will grant you one thing like I do for the JWs that come to my house to proselytize. That is that the term trinity is not in the Bible. So what, The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are in there. They are three distinct personalities and there is only one God go figure. Three is what trinity means. There is no sense making such a big deal of it as do the cult JWs. According to them, they are the only ones who will rule and reign with Christ. Barf! Edited May 13, 2009 by aj4u

[aj4u]

They are an abomination because It most certainly is about the doctrines stated in them. At the time, Christianity basically all believed in the trinity. I wouldn't be surprised if that was the exact thing He was speaking about.

I love this "man doesn't have to do anything" doctrine. I can't spend 5 minutes in scripture without finding several scriptures that state the opposite. And the once saved always saved doctrine is near the top of this list also..

I hope your not referring to my message. If so, you haven't understood me or your putting words in my mouth again or both.

The thing about them being similar is that they often use the same words, but the words are understood so differently.

You lost me. What is specifically twisted and bent beyond recognition so that they no longer look like His Gospel? Edited May 13, 2009 by aj4u

[aj4u]

I disagree as to why the creeds are an abomination to God. It isn't necessarily about the doctrines of believe stated in them. For the most part they are fairly similar to LDS belief and doctrine, particularly in the role and divinity of Jesus Christ.

The problem with the creeds as I see them, is that they take authority upon themselves to define the doctrines of God. They were not established by prophets of God, and no doctrine can be defined except by authority from God through prophecy.

Many false prophets will rise in the last days. We are living in it. I recognize the prophets in the Bible as the authority source. Why should I have to receive others if they cannot prove through Scriptures in the Bible they are supposed to be in a position of authority regarding the church? How do we know that they are not trying to hijack the faith like Jim Jones, David Corresh, David Berg, CT Russel, Rev Sung Yung Moon, Muhammad and you name it? We have to judge whether or not these prophets line up with Scripture if they don't, we should stone the hell out of their message if you will!

[aj4u]

Good night

[prospectmom]

logically speaking it dosen't make sense that God's communication would stop with the Bible....

[dnc76v22]

I have had an up and down life when it comes to religion. I was raised LDS and believed in it up until I was about 18. I began to question what was right, if anything. I began doing drugs and began denying that there was a God. Last year I was diagnosed with cancer and began studying the scriptures again. I have repented of all oth bad things I have done on earth. So my question is do I still qualify for anything above the Telstial Kingdom?

As someone has already told you, none of us are authorized to judge you. But I will point out that the Lord is no respecter of persons. Paul and Alama the younger faught against the church before they repented.

If Paul can be exalted, so can you. :)

[Justice]

I hope your not referring to my message. If so, you haven't understood me or your putting words in my mouth again or both.

You lost me. What is specifically twisted and bent beyond recognition so that they no longer look like His Gospel?

Sorry, no, I was referring to the creeds that exist and the beleif in a trinity that can't be understood. Seems like a contrdiction if the Bible says to know God, but the trinity can't be understood.

If The Father and Son are One in bodily and person it would also seem like He practices trickery by speaking from Heaven while He is on earth and by praying to Himself. He also said the Father sent Him and that He does the will of the Father, again if they are the same person, that would be an attempt to decive. No wonder it is impossible to understand that God is one Being with 3 forms.

If that was the only interpretation, I would be an atheist.

Edited May 13, 2009 by Justice

[bytor2112]

But I am not referring to Constantine, the early church and the Council of Nicea. I go by the Scriptures in the Bible. Can you find or prove that I have shared something that is not according to knowledge in Scripture? If not, what are you trying to convince me of? Do you not claim the Bible as the word of God? I will grant you one thing like I do for the JWs that come to my house to proselytize. That is that the term trinity is not in the Bible. So what, The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are in there. They are three distinct personalities and there is only one God go figure. Three is what trinity means. There is no sense making such a big deal of it as do the cult JWs. According to them, they are the only ones who will rule and reign with Christ. Barf!

I do believe the Bible is the word of God......some of the words of God. But I also believe that he has spoken more than is recorded in the Bible. The Book of Mormon is another record that bears witness of Jesus Christ. I also believe that God still speaks to man and leads and guides his church through living Prophets. Have you considered that much of what you believe in....the Trinity.....the Bible in it's current rendering......came to be, not during the time of Christ, but centuries later? Were these men Prophets? Did they receive direct revelation from God? Or did they just come to these conclusions and Orthodox Christianity has been centered around it ever since. You reference the Bible, yet, we have no original manuscripts for the text found in the Bible and who decided which books should be scriptural canon and by whose authority? We know that many scriptural texts are not included in the Protestant Bible.

The Father is a glorified personage of flesh and bone.......Jesus Christ is his only begotten Son and is also a glorified personage of flesh and bone and the Holy Spirit is a personage of Spirit and they are One God.....how? One in purpose....not one in substance.

The Book of Mormon does not detract from the Bible......it strengthens it's foundation, it clarifies and enlightens and most importantly, it is an additional witness to the world that Jesus is the Christ....the only begotten of the Father and the Redeemer of Mankind and that salvation comes through his atoning blood and in no other way.

Edited May 13, 2009 by bytor2112

[Hemidakota]

He is in me in the form of the Holy Spirit who is God or has the very same spirit as Jesus. The Bible does not tell us to concentrate on Celestial, Telestial and Terrestial Kingdoms (CTTK) nor are we told to try to figure out the essences of the Holy Trinity (Father, Son Holy Spirit). We could never understand God's essences and nature or substance. It is a waste of time and trips people off to the point they offer strange fire as service to God's kingdom and weird teachings that involves the speculation of man. What is important is to know who Jesus is according to the Scriptures any more than this comes from evil. For instance, we know that Jesus is God. We know he has not been created. We know He created all things. We know in Him dwells the fullness of the Godhead. We know He is God’s Glory and the exact expression of all that God is in terms of essence being and substance. Jesus said that where I am you may be also. Who on earth cares about CTTK if we are with Him?

If you truly know the Godhead, you will find them three distinct human beings. There is no speculation here but your own assumption or using man made doctrine from the doctrine of the Universal Church of Rome. These men did not know the Godhead either. The approach to use is to ask like Abraham and other prophets, who sought the personal attendance of the Godhead for a true testimony.