Contention (3 Nephi 11:29-30)

[applepansy]

It was suggested in a recent thread that contention is a good thing. I thought it appropriate to post Christ's opinion of contention.

29 For verily, verily I say unto you, he that hath the spirit of contention is not of me, but is of the devil, who is the father of contention, and he stirreth up the hearts of men to contend with anger, one with another.

30 Behold, this is not my doctrine, to stir up the hearts of men with anger, one against another; but this is my doctrine, that such things should be done away.

There are many conference talks about how destructive the spirit of contentioin can be. If you're interested just search "contention" at The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

applepansy

[the Ogre]

Apple, I think you are right on with this.

I however love a good fight. When I was growing up with my five brothers, my dad's basic rule was "no broken bones and no blood on the carpet".

It is something that needs to be worked on obviously, but please note that in many fields and industries scientific and engineering marvels could not exist without argument. I think the difference is when contention leads to violence.

My last example comes from wives. Many times they get what they want because they are not afraid to fight a bit.

[beefche]

When "contention" means fighting or combating, then yes, I agree with the scriptures.

When "contention" means to debate something, then I don't think the scriptures are referring to that.

Here's Webster's definition of "contention":

1. the act or or instance of contending (to strive or vie in contest or rivalry or against difficulties)

2. a point advanced or maintained in a debate or argument

[Justice]

Yes, contention boils down to intent, and it generally spews from a heart that is unwilling to listen and understand. My biggest pet peeve is when people think you are "bashing" them just because you disagree with them.

One of the things that confuses me the most is that people can actually argue or "bash" over scriptures or Christ's doctrine. It so doesn't make sense.

[applepansy]

When "contention" means fighting or combating, then yes, I agree with the scriptures.

When "contention" means to debate something, then I don't think the scriptures are referring to that.

Here's Webster's definition of "contention":

1. the act or or instance of contending (to strive or vie in contest or rivalry or against difficulties)

2. a point advanced or maintained in a debate or argument

I'm referring to the first definition. You don't need to be physical to contend in a harmful way.

applepansy

[Traveler]

It was suggested in a recent thread that contention is a good thing. I thought it appropriate to post Christ's opinion of contention.

There are many conference talks about how destructive the spirit of contentioin can be. If you're interested just search "contention" at The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

applepansy

I agree - when someone is more concerned with what is wrong with someone else's opinion (or religion) than what is right with their's there is nothing of worth ever gained or acomplished.

The Traveler

[beefche]

I'm referring to the first definition. You don't need to be physical to contend in a harmful way.

applepansy

And fighting and combating are not always referring to a physical fight or combat.

The thing is, I think you are referring to "contention" here on lds.net. And yes, some of the 1st meaning happens. We are all people of passion and sometimes we let our passions get the better of us.

But, I also think contention meaning #2 happens a lot here on lds.net. Because there are a lot of smart, opinionated people who have valuable thoughts to share. And sometimes those thoughts are in complete opposite of other's valuable, smart thoughts. And when one person disagrees with another, some people take that as "contention."

[Traveler]

And fighting and combating are not always referring to a physical fight or combat.

The thing is, I think you are referring to "contention" here on lds.net. And yes, some of the 1st meaning happens. We are all people of passion and sometimes we let our passions get the better of us.

But, I also think contention meaning #2 happens a lot here on lds.net. Because there are a lot of smart, opinionated people who have valuable thoughts to share. And sometimes those thoughts are in complete opposite of other's valuable, smart thoughts. And when one person disagrees with another, some people take that as "contention."

Sometimes it is an attitude thing. Often smart opinionated people have learned that if you only talk to someone you agree with - you will never learn anything. Sometimes I will ask questions trying to understand someone and I know for a fact that there have been occasions when my questions have not been received well. I am sorry about that. I believe if we cannot discuss something openly without getting angry - it is because our position is weak and we are fearful of losing our place.

The Traveler

[applepansy]

But, I also think contention meaning #2 happens a lot here on lds.net. Because there are a lot of smart, opinionated people who have valuable thoughts to share. And sometimes those thoughts are in complete opposite of other's valuable, smart thoughts. And when one person disagrees with another, some people take that as "contention."

This is not what I'm concerned about. I'm concerned about obvious rude and disrespectful contention.

We can disagree without being rude and disrespectful.

[TruthSeekerToo]

I agree. There is a very different "feel" to contention vs. putting forth differing ideas and opinions.

I enjoy learning from other opinions and understandings and interpretations.

I don't like when it disinigrates into personal jabs and veiled insults.

[prospectmom]

apple sometimes I think because we do not like what is being said or how it is being said we get more frustrated with it . I see no malace in the threads so far on this site and if there is the mods take total care of it. This is another way for you to try to debate and take jabs at someone which really won't do anything positive at all and just continues to stir the pot.... I know you are determined to be right on this one but I feel this thread is in bad form

2. a point advanced or maintained in a debate or argument

While you do not name names I think the posts which your complaining about are totally covered in #2 of the dictionary.....

If they wern't a MOD would really deal with it.

[applepansy]

Prospectmom,

I'm making the point that discussion can happen without contention. Nothing more.

I'm happy you've not been the brunt of such posts.

[Connie]

Proverbs 13:10 "Only by pride cometh contention..."

Proverbs 28:25 "He that is of a proud heart stirreth up strife..."

"Another face of pride is contention. ... Contention ranges from a hostile spoken word to worldwide conflicts." -Ezra Taft Benson

I agree, this type of contention is most definitely "of the devil." Purposefully using a condescending tone and being disrespectful of another. It is based on pride, to 'pit ones intellect or opinion against another' to paraphrase Pres. Benson.

Debate and discussion of ideas and truths is another matter entirely (though unfortunately contention can often be used in those venues as well).

[Palerider]

I am closing this thread for now....when I speak with the other Mods and we decide it needs to be open...I will open it at that time.....this thread has already gotten contentious....