Does LDS doctrine clash with the Bible?

[Snow]

These are titles and positions that only the most high God can have and He doesn't share His glory with another.

Here's the problem with that.

It's untrue.

And the problem for you is that we can read and therefore know you are just making it up.

We are heir to ALL that Christ has (Rom 8:15-17, Rev 21:7, 1 Cor 3:22), which is all that His Father has (Jn 3:35) Presumably God has glory and thus we are designated to inherit his glory.

We partake in God's divine nature. (2 Peter 1:4)

The sons and daughters of God (us) will be like Him (1Jn 3:2) and changed into his image from glory to glory. (2 Cor 3:18)

If you are going to try and trick people, you will have to be more clever than that.

[aj4u]

Isn't that what the serpent told Eve in the garden? "You shall not die, but you shall be as God knowing good from evil. Isn't that another way of saying you have a spark of divinity? I see it as messing with forbidden fruit!

[Snow]

What part of what I mentioned did you want me to prove from the Scripture? I said several things.

I am asking that you prove that God cannot be understood with human logic.

I have also repeatedly asked you about your view of God - expressed by the term "Trinity" Please answer.

[aj4u]

Here's the problem with that.

It's untrue.

And the problem for you is that we can read and therefore know you are just making it up.

We are heir to ALL that Christ has (Rom 8:15-17, Rev 21:7, 1 Cor 3:22), which is all that His Father has (Jn 3:35) Presumably God has glory and thus we are designated to inherit his glory.

We partake in God's divine nature. (2 Peter 1:4)

The sons and daughters of God (us) will be like Him (1Jn 3:2) and changed into his image from glory to glory. (2 Cor 3:18)

If you are going to try and trick people, you will have to be more clever than that.

It is not true???

Is 42:8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

God also say that there were no Gods before Him nor shall there be any after Him. As far as an inheritance is concerned, we have to meet God on His terms not ours to recieve it.

[Snow]

It is not true???

Is 42:8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

God also say that there were no Gods before Him nor shall there be any after Him. As far as an inheritance is concerned, we have to meet God on His terms not ours to recieve it.

That's it?

You think that all you have to do is post a verse that you think contradicts the New Testament verses?????

You're joking right?

Why won't you answer my other question? You must either be embarrassed or unknowledgeable.

[john doe]

It is written, "Except ye become as a child ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven."

But what does that mean? Does it mean that you should always be juvenile? Or does it mean that you should be submissive to God's will and have faith like a child? I don't think it means you have to use a child's flawed logic to make a point.

[Islander]

It is written, "Except ye become as a child ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven."

Oh, brother...:rolleyes:

This is a waste of time. He has but the most rudimentary grasp on the scriptures. This is going nowhere.

Edited June 12, 2009 by Islander

[beefche]

It is written:

When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

[JohnnyRudick]

Isn't that what the serpent told Eve in the garden? "You shall not die, but you shall be as God knowing good from evil. Isn't that another way of saying you have a spark of divinity? I see it as messing with forbidden fruit!

That is what you say.

Snow has shown you what the Bible has to say which we have a lot more respect for.

The Bible says we are joint hairs with Christ.

Joint Hairs with our Elder Brother.

The First Born among many brethren who He will share His inheritance with.

The Bible Says So.

Bro. Rudick

Edited June 12, 2009 by JohnnyRudick
Our Elder Brother

[pam]

Bro. Rudick do you mean joint heirs?

[JohnnyRudick]

Bro. Rudick do you mean joint heirs?

Getting late:p

No, I mean. . . .Did I say hairs?

Tee, Hee:p I did didn't I;)

Yup, Joint hairs:D

Bro. Rudick

[Carl62]

aj4u, you say that Jesus is God and that they are one and the same, yet how do you explain Acts 7:55-56 where it says, 55) "But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God. 56) And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God". This is Stephen clearly stating, plain and simple, that he saw God and Jesus standing side by side each other, and not that they were one and the same. Also, John 14:5-9 says, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth in me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father." Why would he go unto his Father if he were the Father? In Mark 14:36, Jesus prayed to His Heavenly Father in the garden of Gethsemane that his "bitter cup" might be removed. Why would he pray to His Heavenly Father if he were the Father? Wouldn't it be a mockery if He prayed to himself? Also, Heavenly Father is the ONLY one who knows when Jesus will return. Now, if Jesus really is the Father, why doesn't Jesus know when he'll return? I don't see how you can possibly accept a creed which brought about the Triune doctrine that was created by a group of uninspired men in the 3rd century led by Constantine, who was a pagan worshipper. And while John 4:24 does say that "God is a spirit", does it say that "God is ONLY a spirit"? NO, because we know through modern revelations, along with the Bible, that He has a body of flesh and bones as well.

Edited June 12, 2009 by Carl62

[aj4u]

Really?

He can't?

I guessing you can prove that some way or else you wouldn't assert it as fact. Can you?

EPHESIANS

49-3:19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fullness of God.

50-PHILIPPIANS

50-4:7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

I believe that includes logic. Now, regarding your question about the trinity is a tough question to answer because people have different concepts of what embodies the trinity doctrine. If I say yes, I might be agreeing to someone's error concerning their view of the God head. Why can't you settle for I believe in God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit as did the disciples and apostles. The three are one yet distinct and also of the same substance and nature as written in the Bible. It really defies all logic. What I can tell you is I do not believe that God is flesh and bones. That is unequivocally against Scripture in the Holy Bible that explicitly states “God is Spirit” and does indeed clash with the Bible big time. God being flesh and bones, as you believe, implies that Adam was and is God.

[aj4u]

That's it?

You think that all you have to do is post a verse that you think contradicts the New Testament verses?????

You're joking right?

Why won't you answer my other question? You must either be embarrassed or unknowledgeable.

This is enough for me to seriously look at some red flags. There are many more verses. If you don't accept these already posted from the Bible, you won't accept the others either. Hence, we'll have to agree to disagree civily as we have both been.

[Justice]

Isn't that what the serpent told Eve in the garden? "You shall not die, but you shall be as God knowing good from evil. Isn't that another way of saying you have a spark of divinity? I see it as messing with forbidden fruit!

If you claim to believe the Bible then you should know what Satan's lie was.

Was it that they became as God knowing good and evil?

Genesis 3:

22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

So, do I believe what you said, or what God said?

[aj4u]

aj4u, you say that Jesus is God and that they are one and the same, yet how do you explain Acts 7:55-56 where it says, 55) "But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God. 56) And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God". This is Stephen clearly stating, plain and simple, that he saw God and Jesus standing side by side each other, and not that they were one and the same. Also, John 14:5-9 says, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth in me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father." Why would he go unto his Father if he were the Father? In Mark 14:36, Jesus prayed to His Heavenly Father in the garden of Gethsemane that his "bitter cup" might be removed. Why would he pray to His Heavenly Father if he were the Father? Wouldn't it be a mockery if He prayed to himself? Also, Heavenly Father is the ONLY one who knows when Jesus will return. Now, if Jesus really is the Father, why doesn't Jesus know when he'll return? I don't see how you can possibly accept a creed which brought about the Triune doctrine that was created by a group of uninspired men in the 3rd century led by Constantine, who was a pagan worshipper. And while John 4:24 does say that "God is a spirit", does it say that "God is ONLY a spirit"? NO, because we know through modern revelations, along with the Bible, that He has a body of flesh and bones as well.

I said they are of the same substance yet distinct. Please read carefully what I wrote. This is not an opinion of mine; this is the Scripture. I don't trust man's opinons or views. Let every one be a liar, but God's word is true. We are not told to figure out God's essences through human logic. It is neither right nor safe to do so. JW's do this a lot - they say you can reason out who God is. They insult the Spirit of grace and God Himself with such ignorant arrogance!

[aj4u]

But what does that mean? Does it mean that you should always be juvenile? Or does it mean that you should be submissive to God's will and have faith like a child? I don't think it means you have to use a child's flawed logic to make a point.

God is not understood with logic. God is a Spirit and He seeks those to worship Him in spirit and truth. Being submissive to God begins with trusting the Scripture as God's word and not letting what clashes with it to usurp the authority over the Holy Bible and what the apostles said is truth!

[Justice]

Just a bit ago you were using logic to explain who God is. It was faulty logic, but an attempt at logic nonetheless.

Go back to the bottom of the previous page and see my previous post.

This verse in Genesis 3 is proof you don't understand who man is, nor who God is. That is, unless you can explain why you said the opposite of what God said.

[MikeUpton]

Getting late:p

No, I mean. . . .Did I say hairs?

Tee, Hee:p I did didn't I;)

Yup, Joint hairs:D

Bro. Rudick

I like joint hairs.

[Bluejay]

Hi, AJ.

God's church is huge worldwide and the only ones willing to believe this modern day revelation you speak of are Mormons. God has not shown the majority of Christendom this new thing you speak of. That is why there are so few that believe it.

Are you familiar with logical fallacies? This one is "argumentum ad populum," the appeal to popularity. And, it's considered a fallacy for good reason:

Did the popularity of the Roman religion in Jesus's day make it correct?

If not, why does popularity make your religion correct today?

-----

It has not not been announced in the ancient writings. I don't see a hint of Joseph Smith, golden plates and the Americas in the Bible.

If everything in the Book of Mormon was in the Bible, we wouldn't need the Book of Mormon, would we?

-----

Joseph Smith has given prophecy that have not and can never be fulfilled as well.

Though this isn't really the topic of the thread, I would like you to provide me with these prophecies that "have not and can never be fulfilled." I am particularly interested in how you're going to argue the "can never be" part.

-----

I am also hoping that you can search the Scriptures to be sure of why you believe you have the truth and all of Christianity is wrong.

It sounds like you're assuming that we haven't searched the Scriptures.

What is the basis for your assumption? The fact that we disagree with you?

I'm sure that, if we all just thought about it, we'd end up thinking just like you.

[James_Fryman]

Ok lets just look at the jist of the bible and book of mormon.

Old testiment-teaches about a coming messiah

New testiment-Teaches that Jesus Christ is the messiah

Book of Mormon-Teaches that a messiah will come and that Jesus Christ is that messiah

I dont see any differences do you?

[Hemidakota]

Excellent post...:)

[James_Fryman]

thank you

[JohnnyRudick]

I like joint hairs.

I'm a Hair:)

You're a Hair,

All've God's Children are Hairs:D

Bro. Rudick

[JohnnyRudick]

We have shown you that the Bible teaches that Man is also spirit.

As was asked earlier, What did Jesus do with His body that He took into Heaven with and the Angel tells us He will return with?

Do you not see that He must still have His body?

You show us a verse or two and then you tell us an established church doctrine on that verse and not what the verse actually says.

God the Holy Ghost is Spirit.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you

another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot

receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye

know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

God the Father is Flesh and Bone.

John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with

you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me

hath seen the Father; . . .

God the Son, is Flesh and Bone.

Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself:

handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye

see me have.

Bro. Rudick