Chavez to Castro: 'Comrade' Obama Farther Left Than Us

[bytor2112]

"Hey, Obama has just nationalized nothing more and nothing less than General Motors. Comrade Obama! Fidel, careful or we are going to end up to his right," Chavez joked on a live television broadcast.

Article here

[utcowboy]

Signs of the times.....

[Palerider]

former Pres Bush made them do it....:)

[FunkyTown]

To be fair, Chavez said the thing that would be calculated to hurt the US more than anything else and to help his cause.

Hugo Chavez is a communist.

The US nationalized a private institution that was a bastion of capitalism.

Hugo Chavez hates the US.

Hugo Chavez said something designed to make it to the US newspapers.

Hugo Chavez is the mouse that roared, an anti-American head of a tiny country. He's a plucky li'l psycho who's oozing confidence at this apparent failure of the American system.

I can say that a nationalized company isn't necessarily a bad thing. The US needs to develop it's production facilities and needs to be able to maintain a ready armed forces. Since the US has piecemeal been selling off its manufacturing assets for the past fifty years, I worry for the US' armed forces.

However, I am mystified at the stupidity of taking a company that has failed utterly to produce what the marketplace wants and nationalizing the debt. Why, in the name of all that is holy, would anyone buy a failing company and then let the people who caused it to fail to keep running it?

[Lamayana]

To be fair, Chavez said the thing that would be calculated to hurt the US more than anything else and to help his cause.

Hugo Chavez is a communist.

The US nationalized a private institution that was a bastion of capitalism.

Hugo Chavez hates the US.

Hugo Chavez said something designed to make it to the US newspapers.

Hugo Chavez is the mouse that roared, an anti-American head of a tiny country. He's a plucky li'l psycho who's oozing confidence at this apparent failure of the American system.

I can say that a nationalized company isn't necessarily a bad thing. The US needs to develop it's production facilities and needs to be able to maintain a ready armed forces. Since the US has piecemeal been selling off its manufacturing assets for the past fifty years, I worry for the US' armed forces.

However, I am mystified at the stupidity of taking a company that has failed utterly to produce what the marketplace wants and nationalizing the debt. Why, in the name of all that is holy, would anyone buy a failing company and then let the people who caused it to fail to keep running it?

Honestly speaking, I do not understand how someone claiming to be speaking in the name of Jesus Christ can spread so much nonsense in such a short virtual space. If you haven't noticed, Venezuelan President Chavez has improved the popular resources for the equal access to education among the most poor in the Venezuelan society. He was taken to power by a majority of the Venezuelan popular vote. During the years he has been in government, people of the poorest sectors have obtained better living standards and many are hoping now to return to their countries of origin for the realization of a true and more fair American Dream. Stop insulting other countries' elected officials and rise to your proper stature as a representative of a culture that is crying for wisdom from the shadow of an empire.

[FunkyTown]

Honestly speaking, I do not understand how someone claiming to be speaking in the name of Jesus Christ can spread so much nonsense in such a short virtual space. If you haven't noticed, Venezuelan President Chavez has improved the popular resources for the equal access to education among the most poor in the Venezuelan society. He was taken to power by a majority of the Venezuelan popular vote. During the years he has been in government, people of the poorest sectors have obtained better living standards and many are hoping now to return to their countries of origin for the realization of a true and more fair American Dream. Stop insulting other countries' elected officials and rise to your proper stature as a representative of a culture that is crying for wisdom from the shadow of an empire.

I'm not certain what you're saying here. You obviously disagree with me, so go ahead and let me know what you're disagreeing with:

1) Hugo Chavez dislikes America.

Are you saying that he doesn't dislike America?

2) Hugo Chavez is Communistic.

Are you saying he isn't Communistic?

3) He's a plucky li'l psycho who's oozing confidence.

I'm betting this was what you had issue with. If that's the case, I apologize for having offended you. Well, he's certainly 'Plucky' because he amended the Constitution of Venezuela to sidestep term limits. This is the beginning of a tyranny.

Is he psycho? Anti-Chavez student demonstrators were ambushed by masked gunmen. Hugo Chavez said, “They generally take the path of fascist violence and confront the laws and the people, and they are always looking to the Pentagon, high-ranking generals,”. Yes. Saying that students deserved to be shot and beaten by thugs is psychotic.

Maybe it was 'Oozing Confidence?' Regardless, I didn't claim to speak for Jesus Christ when I insulted Chavez. He has certainly redressed some economic concerns. This does not make him a good man. I apologize that you felt attacked, since it wasn't my intention, nor do I regularly criticize other governments. I was merely pointing out that it was absurd to attack Obama based upon the words of Chavez, who doesn't like the US at all.

[boyando]

I think that this just proves one thing. President Chavez needs a better teleprompter.

[Lamayana]

I'm not certain what you're saying here. You obviously disagree with me, so go ahead and let me know what you're disagreeing with:

1) Hugo Chavez dislikes America.

Are you saying that he doesn't dislike America?

2) Hugo Chavez is Communistic.

Are you saying he isn't Communistic?

3) He's a plucky li'l psycho who's oozing confidence.

I'm betting this was what you had issue with. If that's the case, I apologize for having offended you. Well, he's certainly 'Plucky' because he amended the Constitution of Venezuela to sidestep term limits. This is the beginning of a tyranny.

Is he psycho? Anti-Chavez student demonstrators were ambushed by masked gunmen. Hugo Chavez said, “They generally take the path of fascist violence and confront the laws and the people, and they are always looking to the Pentagon, high-ranking generals,”. Yes. Saying that students deserved to be shot and beaten by thugs is psychotic.

Maybe it was 'Oozing Confidence?' Regardless, I didn't claim to speak for Jesus Christ when I insulted Chavez. He has certainly redressed some economic concerns. This does not make him a good man. I apologize that you felt attacked, since it wasn't my intention, nor do I regularly criticize other governments. I was merely pointing out that it was absurd to attack Obama based upon the words of Chavez, who doesn't like the US at all.

You seem to forget that the model of US Capitalism is collapsing with no hope for resurrection. What you call "Communism" in your language, in reality is considered "Compassion" in mine. Hugo Chavez has been elected by a large majority of his own people by popular choice. It is because of biased language such as this you use to describe those you disagree with, that the better relations among the countries are not possible.

[FunkyTown]

I think that this just proves one thing. President Chavez needs a better teleprompter.

This sounds like a slam at Obama and a comparison between him and Hugo Chavez.

You're being absurd, Boyando. Obama has not abolished term limits, has not shot protesters and basically made the mistake of listening to his advisors where it came time for bailouts.

[FunkyTown]

You seem to forget that the model of US Capitalism is collapsing with no hope for resurrection. What you call "Communism" in your language, in reality is considered "Compassion" in mine. Hugo Chavez has been elected by a large majority of his own people by popular choice. It is because of biased language such as this you use to describe those you disagree with, that the better relations among the countries are not possible.

Yyyyyyyyes. I should point out as everyone on this board knows that I'm not from the US. I do not live in the US. I was born in Canada and now live in Britain.

And Hugo Chavez isn't a big fan of most western nations. He called Jose' Aznar, the Spanish Prime Minister, a 'Fascist' and actually repeatedly bashed him with the word while he was sitting beside the man. It took the King to say 'Shut up' to him to get him to stop.

Hugo Chavez may be popular locally, and I'm willing to be proven wrong.

Please, feel free to provide links to any speeches that show Hugo Chavez as being a tolerant, broad-minded individual with a moderate political stance.

Maybe something nice about his reactions towards protesters during his removal of presidential term as set out in the Venezuelan Constitution? Maybe something he said nice about the US? I'm certainly more than willing to accept that I might be wrong in this case. After all, international politics is a tricky business. I would love to hear that Hugo Chavez is polite and respectful to those he disagrees with, or who oppose him.

[Aesa]

Chavez has pretty good reason to hate the US, pretty much for some of the same reasons that I quote "hate" (a strong and inappropriate word) the US government...

Chavez has stood up to the United States and he's done it primarily demanding that Venezuelan oil be used to help the Venezuelan people ... well, they didn't like that in the United States. Yes there have been the (suspicious coups) riots and all that, but it's clear that the people weren't behind those. The people have been so strongly behind Chavez that they've been able to overcome the presence of corruption from the North -- which is a first for Latin American countries.

Chavez, ofcourse, is just as corrupt as the next leader in political office today. I have read an article where he says that Communism is not an appropriate system, I suppose you could call him some kind of socialist ... but it's not easy to distinguish. He has definitely been propagandised by the West, though, as I think is evidenced by many of the posts above me.

[Vort]

Chavez has pretty good reason to hate the US, pretty much for some of the same reasons that I quote "hate" (a strong and inappropriate word) the US government...

If you truly considered it an inappropriate word, you would not have used it. I take your word at face value: You hate the US government.

The US government is elected by and a representative of the US people. If you hate the US government, as you state, then you hate the US citizenry. We are a government of the people.

[Vort]

You seem to forget that the model of US Capitalism is collapsing with no hope for resurrection. What you call "Communism" in your language, in reality is considered "Compassion" in mine.

Troll.

[Lamayana]

Yyyyyyyyes. I should point out as everyone on this board knows that I'm not from the US. I do not live in the US. I was born in Canada and now live in Britain.

And Hugo Chavez isn't a big fan of most western nations. He called Jose' Aznar, the Spanish Prime Minister, a 'Fascist' and actually repeatedly bashed him with the word while he was sitting beside the man. It took the King to say 'Shut up' to him to get him to stop.

Hugo Chavez may be popular locally, and I'm willing to be proven wrong.

Please, feel free to provide links to any speeches that show Hugo Chavez as being a tolerant, broad-minded individual with a moderate political stance.

Maybe something nice about his reactions towards protesters during his removal of presidential term as set out in the Venezuelan Constitution? Maybe something he said nice about the US? I'm certainly more than willing to accept that I might be wrong in this case. After all, international politics is a tricky business. I would love to hear that Hugo Chavez is polite and respectful to those he disagrees with, or who oppose him.

He has said many good comments about the US, but for that you would have to speak Spanish, or I would have to translate them for you. I do not have time or energy to do that, and you don't have any time of motivation to learn Spanish. The media does not really translate any of that into English. The Constitutional Amendment has been passed by popular vote.

[FunkyTown]

He has said many good comments about the US, but for that you would have to speak Spanish, or I would have to translate them for you. I do not have time or energy to do that, and you don't have any time of motivation to learn Spanish. The media does not really translate any of that into English. The Constitutional Amendment has been passed by popular vote.

Please do not assume what I am or am not willing to do. I might have served a mission in a Spanish speaking country (I did not); I might have learned Spanish in school (I did not); I might be willing to run the article through Babelfish (Which I am).

Please, I invite you to prove that he has said 'Many good things' about the US.

He has been in power for over a decade, so I'm certain that you can find 3 articles on Google where he says something good about the US.

And yes, Hugo Chavez did have the popular vote when term limits were abolished. This does not mean that term limits shouldn't exist, merely that he has been able to bring forth prosperity to a country that is traditionally poor.

Of course he's popular. He's made a lot of Venezuelans wealthier than they were before. That does not mean he is their friend. Everything he does screams out Tyranny.

EDIT: I should also point out that I watched your video. He doesn't say anything nice about those who disagree with him or the US or anyone. He simply is talking about patriotism and victory and transforming Venezuela in to an international powerhouse. His joint military exercises with Russia certainly suggest he might be right. He is preaching nationalism, socialism and the revolution that is coming.

None of that makes him a good person. He's charismatic and he has certainly proven the principle of three potatoes, but that does not make him a good person.

Edited July 3, 2009 by FunkyTown

[drjme]

If you truly considered it an inappropriate word, you would not have used it. I take your word at face value: You hate the US government.

The US government is elected by and a representative of the US people. If you hate the US government, as you state, then you hate the US citizenry. We are a government of the people.

Why do you Americans like to bust this line out? I am on a number of forums and a lot of these comments are tossed about willy nilly, accusations of 'you are a frothing at the mouth america hater, because you don't like the american government you don't like the american people which means you hate me!!!' (exaggerated yes, but basically implied). It's really sad.....

Do you disagree with me when I say that America is on the road to socialism/communism? if yes, then the American people voted for it.

Do you disagree with me when I say that 8 years after the iraq invasion to liberate them, they are no more free and no more better off than they were with saddam, with millions of dead iraqi civilians and Children? who voted that US government in?

Do you disagree with me when I tell you that the US has 'offence' force bases in over 150 countries and that many countries want them out, but the offence forces aren't budging? who voted for that oppression?

Who voted for abu ghraib and torture?

Who voted for American security forces that operate in Iraq outside of American forces control, under corporate control, that roam wantonly as armed to the teeth mercenaries (formerly known as blackwater etc)?

and on and on.......

Well YOU did of course, with your democratically elected government by choice of the people, a government that endorses all of the above. YOU must be responsible yes?

[FunkyTown]

Why do you Americans like to bust this line out? I am on a number of forums and a lot of these comments are tossed about willy nilly, accusations of 'you are a frothing at the mouth america hater, because you don't like the american government you don't like the american people which means you hate me!!!' (exaggerated yes, but basically implied). It's really sad.....

Do you disagree with me when I say that America is on the road to socialism/communism? if yes, then the American people voted for it.

Do you disagree with me when I say that 8 years after the iraq invasion to liberate them, they are no more free and no more better off than they were with saddam, with millions of dead iraqi civilians and Children? who voted that US government in?

Do you disagree with me when I tell you that the US has 'offence' force bases in over 150 countries and that many countries want them out, but the offence forces aren't budging? who voted for that oppression?

Who voted for abu ghraib and torture?

Who voted for American security forces that operate in Iraq outside of American forces control, under corporate control, that roam wantonly as armed to the teeth mercenaries (formerly known as blackwater etc)?

and on and on.......

Well YOU did of course, with your democratically elected government by choice of the people, a government that endorses all of the above. YOU must be responsible yes?

I would say you are partially right, Dr. Of course, most of what you're saying are exaggerations designed to raise a point. No American voted for Abu Ghraib and torture, but there are a lot of Americans who agree with it(There are numerous posts that say this). Is it the majority? I would say no.

Most Americans certainly do not like huge military expenditures on nations that don't want them in there, so I would say they didn't vote for that.

Do most Americans like Blackwater? I would say most Americans don't like American soldiers coming home in bodybags, so the deniability of Blackwater appeals to them.

You're right - Everyone -is- responsible. Therein lies the problem: When everyone's responsible, it's easy to believe no one is responsible.

[drjme]

I would say you are partially right, Dr. Of course, most of what you're saying are exaggerations designed to raise a point. No American voted for Abu Ghraib and torture, but there are a lot of Americans who agree with it(There are numerous posts that say this). Is it the majority? I would say no.

Most Americans certainly do not like huge military expenditures on nations that don't want them in there, so I would say they didn't vote for that.

Do most Americans like Blackwater? I would say most Americans don't like American soldiers coming home in bodybags, so the deniability of Blackwater appeals to them.

You're right - Everyone -is- responsible. Therein lies the problem: When everyone's responsible, it's easy to believe no one is responsible.

Vort said that because Aesa hates the American Government, he hates the citizenry because they voted them in. If you look at it that way, I'm saying Because the citizenry voted the government in, the citizenry are responsible for these above issues and actions (the issues themselves are not exaggerated). Just applying the same logic.

They do not vote for these things directly, but rather in ignorance. Obama is full steam ahead with a continuation of bu$h's plans, except he leads the way with catch phrases like 'hope' and 'change'. There is no change, so what hope do we have.... he has pulled out of many if not most of his election promises, watch this:

The Obama deception

for a run down, if you guys really care about the direction of your nation, and PLEASE try to disprove it, instead of trying to attack the messenger.

I like this video:

YouTube - System Of A Down - Boom!

more of it is needed for real change.

sorry if I come across a bit overbearing, I am just passionate about the issue.

edit: oh... and funky don't think that becasue I'm quoting your post i'm trying to argue/disagree or have a go at you....I'm not

Edited July 3, 2009 by drjme

[Lamayana]

Please do not assume what I am or am not willing to do. I might have served a mission in a Spanish speaking country (I did not); I might have learned Spanish in school (I did not); I might be willing to run the article through Babelfish (Which I am).

Please, I invite you to prove that he has said 'Many good things' about the US.

He has been in power for over a decade, so I'm certain that you can find 3 articles on Google where he says something good about the US.

And yes, Hugo Chavez did have the popular vote when term limits were abolished. This does not mean that term limits shouldn't exist, merely that he has been able to bring forth prosperity to a country that is traditionally poor.

Of course he's popular. He's made a lot of Venezuelans wealthier than they were before. That does not mean he is their friend. Everything he does screams out Tyranny.

EDIT: I should also point out that I watched your video. He doesn't say anything nice about those who disagree with him or the US or anyone. He simply is talking about patriotism and victory and transforming Venezuela in to an international powerhouse. His joint military exercises with Russia certainly suggest he might be right. He is preaching nationalism, socialism and the revolution that is coming.

None of that makes him a good person. He's charismatic and he has certainly proven the principle of three potatoes, but that does not make him a good person.

What makes you a good person? How do I know you? How do we know Pres. Obama, if we never met him in person neither have spoken with him on the phone? Have we ever gone to dinner with Michael Jackson? How do we know that the things that are written in the media about him are true or false, if all we have is comments given by people in the attempt to slander someone else? Pres. Chavez has not made the wealthier wealthier. On the contrary, made the bitter poor dare to dream with a life of betterment. Here is a translated film to English. I hope you may perhaps start to perceive the nature of giving to others as Christ would have done.

El Sistema - a film by Paul Smaczny & Maria Stodtmeier

I pray for your understanding to open up to the perception of realities that are not necessarily identical to your own. Other countries in the Americas are making choices in which the norms adopted by individual people in United States are not necessarily seen as a ruling norm for them. You should respect your neighbor's right to their own choices, and it is your right to disagree, but you have no justification in slandering the process of countries that are developing beyond the exclusion and social disarray that are not being yet solved in your own country for the benefit of those whom Jesus came to serve.

But, you are right: Chavez does not say anything negative or positive against the USA, but he encourages their people to betterment, that their country too may one day stand up to an International competition as other countries rich in natural resources have done. You are saying quite a lot against the Venezuelan government where you don't have a word to say and do not even have an understanding of their culture, language and traditions. How are you being respectful of some other country's sovereignty?

Edited July 3, 2009 by Lamayana

[jadams_4040]

Article here

I surely swear i read that you promised to quit this "anti obama crap". if someone said anything about george bush even remotely close to the things yu say; they would be branded as unpatriotic. now all of a sudden its a differant standard?

[FunkyTown]

Vort said that because Aesa hates the American Government, he hates the citizenry because they voted them in. If you look at it that way, I'm saying Because the citizenry voted the government in, the citizenry are responsible for these above issues and actions (the issues themselves are not exaggerated). Just applying the same logic.

They do not vote for these things directly, but rather in ignorance. Obama is full steam ahead with a continuation of bu$h's plans, except he leads the way with catch phrases like 'hope' and 'change'. There is no change, so what hope do we have.... he has pulled out of many if not most of his election promises, watch this:

The Obama deception

for a run down, if you guys really care about the direction of your nation, and PLEASE try to disprove it, instead of trying to attack the messenger.

I like this video:

YouTube - System Of A Down - Boom!

more of it is needed for real change.

sorry if I come across a bit overbearing, I am just passionate about the issue.

edit: oh... and funky don't think that becasue I'm quoting your post i'm trying to argue/disagree or have a go at you....I'm not

Hahah. It's okay, Jme. I know you're not really an attacker on the forums. You are very anti-Obama and I'm a moderate who disagrees with most discourse I consider over-the-top.

Speaking of which, I have something for Lamayana, who said that Chavez has said nothing bad or good about the US.

Here's a copy of what he said in the UN:

"The US has already planned, financed and set in motion a coup in Venezuela, and it continues to support coup attempts in Venezuela and elsewhere ... I accuse the American government of protecting terrorists and of having a completely cynical discourse."

Now, I'm no political science major, but I would guess that to be 'Bad'. He certainly has reason to believe what he has said - In Iran, the US supported Contras for an overthrow of the government. They have supported petty tyrants in Africa. They supported Saddam in an attempt to limit Iran's power. The US have historically backed those in opposition to their enemies.

Hugo Chavez does hate the US. He has engaged in military exercises with Putin. He has attacked students protesting in his country. Nobody is saying he hasn't brought money to the poorest sector. That's his base of power.

I'm not even certain why you're arguing this. He's very open with his dislike. You can say I'm wrong with calling him a petty tyrant-in-the-making. I would disagree and point out the things I have. But you seem to be arguing he doesn't hate the US, which he clearly does.

[Aesa]

If you truly considered it an inappropriate word, you would not have used it. I take your word at face value: You hate the US government.

The US government is elected by and a representative of the US people. If you hate the US government, as you state, then you hate the US citizenry. We are a government of the people.

I do not hate the US government or the citizenry, regardless of the empty accusations you raze against me, but I do hate the system for which it is a symptom -- and that is not government elected as representative of the people.

One of the reasons I dislike it is because the people in government are not elected by and representative of the US people -- please tell me why is it that every politician that wins the office of President is also the one who is most funded by the corporate powers?

This is the same in most nations today. Kevin Rudd was also the most funded in the last election. The figures always seem to be telling us the same thing: they're corporation funded shills.

Representative government, yeah, maybe in theory. But certainly not in reality.

[Palerider]

When I read about this...it makes me think of Castro and Chavez and Obama as the 3 Amigos....:)

[Hemidakota]

However, I am mystified at the stupidity of taking a company that has failed utterly to produce what the marketplace wants and nationalizing the debt. Why, in the name of all that is holy, would anyone buy a failing company and then let the people who caused it to fail to keep running it?

Exactly...

[drjme]

Exactly...

It's all about giving their buddies free money, well really not free, because you are paying for it.