john doe Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 The difference between fishing and trolling is......... what? Trolling is fishing while moving the bait. If you've been paying attention, you have seen that AJ is definitely moving the target (or bait if you prefer). If you had been reading his past threads, you would have seen that he already spent 38 pages of bandwidth arguing before finally admitting that our beliefs do come from the Bible, even though he doesn't agree with them. We are already on page 10 of a thread where he has basically asked us to do his work for him. He's got nothing, so he's asking us to come up with attacks on our religion for him. That makes him a lazy troll in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john doe Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 I thought you said I was fishing without bait. And you say I am confused about what I believe. Fishing means something less to me than for you. Jesus said follow me and I will make you fishers of men. I know what i believe. I follow Christ not man!Acts 8:20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.See, now you're confused again. I didn't say you were fishing without bait, Palerider did. Have you even read the Bible from cover to cover? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ztodd Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 The difference between fishing and trolling is......... what? Trolling is fishing while moving the bait. If you've been paying attention, you have seen that AJ is definitely moving the target (or bait if you prefer). If you had been reading his past threads, you would have seen that he already spent 38 pages of bandwidth arguing before finally admitting that our beliefs do come from the Bible, even though he doesn't agree with them. We are already on page 10 of a thread where he has basically asked us to do his work for him. He's got nothing, so he's asking us to come up with attacks on our religion for him. That makes him a lazy troll in my book.With all due respect, I think you may need to learn some things about teaching the gospel.Investigators usually have lots of questions, and require our patience in working with them to answer them.If he finally admitted that our belief do come from the bible, isn't that progress? Doesn't that mean that we've been able to help him learn some things about us? Is that a bad thing?You would rather have him post some anti-mormon "questions" instead of leaving it up to us to lead the discussion? If you plan to serve a mission, you'll learn that it's much better the other way around.He asked a good question- how do we deal with apparent contradictions in our writings? We don't need to find fault with his question.I guess I never really answered the question myself :) - so here goes -If I find something that seems to be contradictory to something else in our teachings, I try to deal with it by studying the official canon of scripture- cross references, footnotes, topical guide, etc., by reading entire chapters if I have to, in order to get it all in context, and also by studying general conference talks and other things from prophets and apostles or other general authorities. All along the way, I pray for understanding and help with my studies. I'm willing to accept an answer of "There is an answer, but you're not ready to understand yet."Sometimes an answer that we're looking for is not purely academic either- sometimes it takes a certain life experience, and won't be answered to our satisfaction for many years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl62 Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 Have patience, my friend. Try to take a moment to try to see things from the perspective of someone who has been taught all their life that the Bible is the infallible word of God and that it is heresy to consider certain interpretations that are completely against what he has been taught.But then you say he's on here wanting to learn more truth and that he's receptive? Got it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ztodd Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 See, now you're confused again. I didn't say you were fishing without bait, Palerider did. Have you even read the Bible from cover to cover?No, I haven't - thanks for asking. :) But I was thinking of starting a full read of it. It could be very educational. I do realize though that not all scripture is of equal value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ztodd Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 But then you say he's on here wanting to learn more truth and that he's receptive? Got it!Not sure if you're being sarcastic or not, but yes, that' exactly right.He was taught one thing all his life, but now he's on here discussing the gospel with us hoping to learn new things! But it can be hard abandoning life-long held beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl62 Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 He was taught one thing all his life, but now he's on here discussing the gospel with us hoping to learn new things! You'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyRudick Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 (edited) That's kind of disrespectful.He didn't say he thought Jesus is "just" a prophet.There was a time when Jesus was a Prophet.When He walked on this Earth in His Earthly Ministry.But after the Resurrection He took on His office as the Great High Priest offering up Himself for our bennifit.I don't doubt that He still holds that Office of Prophet but His Godhood and His Priesthood out shines all that came before.I know what you mean, and agree with you.But this aj must hear that the job of Prophet has fallen upon another.And the only one Kinging it around here is Jesus.Lord and Savior, Great High Priest and our God.Bro. Rudick Edited June 14, 2009 by JohnnyRudick Spelling, Fingers forgot where the key was;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyRudick Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 (edited) Not helpful.What do you expect this to lead to?Are the true colors of some of our moderators starting to show here?We have danced with aj for over 30 pages on another thread and in the process found out that he jumps from site to site doing this very same thing.I know it is true that after all this time that the Spirit of God may be riding him heavily to accept the truth of His Gospel but on the other hand. . .For my part, I am still willing to answer his questions to the best of my ability and watch the Lord work in him but I think he is carrying an umbrella.Bro. Rudick Edited June 14, 2009 by JohnnyRudick Spelling;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl62 Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 (edited) Ztodd, I honestly believe that Pam and/or John would have not closed that thread if he'd just listen to reason and try to make an attempt to understand where we were coming from biblically, but he wouldn't. He did a number of 'hit-n-runs' where he'd ask questions, then we'd answer them. But then when we in turn would respond with a question of our own, he would either answer your question with another question, dodge them completely or give some incoherent answer which you'd have to read over 3 or more times before you'd even remotely understand it (the "Jesus is God and God is Jesus but they're not the same" type answers:confused:). So with the way this thread is already starting out, this isn't going to be just the sequel. This is gonna be the same exact play all over again only with a new title and a few new "actors" (but the lead character is still the same:D). Edited June 14, 2009 by Carl62 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aj4u Posted June 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 See, now you're confused again. I didn't say you were fishing without bait, Palerider did. Have you even read the Bible from cover to cover?My mistake. Fishing means something different to me than it does for you. Why are you able to get away with insulting people? Is it because you are a moderator or you don't consider me people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aj4u Posted June 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 Ztodd, I honestly believe that Pam and/or John would have not closed that thread if he'd just listen to reason and try to make an attempt to understand where we were coming from biblically, but he wouldn't. He did a number of 'hit-n-runs' where he'd ask questions, then we'd answer them. But then when we in turn would respond with a question of our own, he would either answer your question with another question, dodge them completely or give some incoherent answer which you'd have to read over 3 or more times before you'd even remotely understand it (the "Jesus is God and God is Jesus but they're not the same" type answers:confused:). So with the way this thread is already starting out, this isn't going to be just the sequel. This is gonna be the same exact play all over again only with a new title and a few new "actors" (but the lead character is still the same:D).If you would make a list of the unanswered questions, I will try my best to answer them. I honestly don't know of any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemidakota Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 Ok...11-pages and nothing but popcorn on the floor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 What a waste of good popcorn then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aj4u Posted June 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 (edited) With all due respect, I think you may need to learn some things about teaching the gospel.Investigators usually have lots of questions, and require our patience in working with them to answer them.If he finally admitted that our belief do come from the bible, isn't that progress? Doesn't that mean that we've been able to help him learn some things about us? Is that a bad thing?You would rather have him post some anti-mormon "questions" instead of leaving it up to us to lead the discussion? If you plan to serve a mission, you'll learn that it's much better the other way around.He asked a good question- how do we deal with apparent contradictions in our writings? We don't need to find fault with his question.I guess I never really answered the question myself :) - so here goes -If I find something that seems to be contradictory to something else in our teachings, I try to deal with it by studying the official canon of scripture- cross references, footnotes, topical guide, etc., by reading entire chapters if I have to, in order to get it all in context, and also by studying general conference talks and other things from prophets and apostles or other general authorities. All along the way, I pray for understanding and help with my studies. I'm willing to accept an answer of "There is an answer, but you're not ready to understand yet."Sometimes an answer that we're looking for is not purely academic either- sometimes it takes a certain life experience, and won't be answered to our satisfaction for many years.Thanks for answering my question. I nominate you for moderator on this forum. By the way, what is your official cannon of Scripture. I believe Jesus is the answer. I believe that we can hear from Him directly. God might send a prophet to give us a kick in the rear end like he did with King David in we are missing the mark. Jesus shows me things when I pray. I believe that God has me on this forum for His purposes. God is in control not man or the starters of this forum. God wanted me here or it wouldn't have happen. I do not try to second-guess God as to what his purpose is. We must be willing to trust how the Lord leads in our life. I am always looking for divine appointments. I have been straightforward and honest on this forum and I haven't disrespected anyone by calling him or her names. I have learned a lot of things about Mormonism that I didn't know before. I want to learn more about them, so I can be a more effective witness for Jesus. I am basically an unprofitable servant of the Lord trying to do a better job. I am also in danger being here because there are many things being said that I can identify with from my spiritual experiences with the Lord; however, I don't have a peace that Mormonism is the direction God is taking me simply because I am here. I know that there are some of you who think that is God’s plan for me to be a LDS, but He has shown me that I need to share the truth in love with you. I pray that the Lord's purposes will prevail in Jesus name. I pray that God opens our eyes to see the way He does. Oh God, Father in heaven I pray for the truth to prevail. We come against the deception of Satan who lies in wait to deceive. The Lord bind you Satan. You are a liar and the father of it. Jesus you can and will save us from the doctrinal maze of confusion and its author. Thank you for doing it Lord. In Jesus’ name!!! Edited June 14, 2009 by aj4u Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 I know that there are some of you who think that is God’s plan for me to be a LDS, but He has shown me that I need to share the truth in love with you. So may I then understand that you believe we don't have truth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aj4u Posted June 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 No, I haven't - thanks for asking. :) But I was thinking of starting a full read of it. It could be very educational. I do realize though that not all scripture is of equal value.I have read it from cover to cover and continue reading. I encourage you to do so. I understand that the Bible can be twisted to say just about anything anyone wants to believe. So apologetics is futile. All we can do is plant the seed of God's truth and trust that His word will not return void. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aj4u Posted June 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 Ok...11-pages and nothing but popcorn on the floor.Why is everyone counting the pages and popcorn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aj4u Posted June 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 So may I then understand that you believe we don't have truth?I cannot say that you don't have any truth because that wouldn't be true, but neither can you say the same about me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemidakota Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 We are here for a reason...so am I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aj4u Posted June 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 What a waste of good popcorn then.There is plenty more my treat. :popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 I cannot say that you don't have any truth because that wouldn't be true, but neither can you say the same about me. That's true and I've never said that. BTW....hand over the popcorn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aj4u Posted June 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 That's true and I've never said that. BTW....hand over the popcorn. :popcorn::popcorn: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeUpton Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 I cannot say that you don't have any truth because that wouldn't be true, but neither can you say the same about me. that is true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl62 Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 Wow AJ! You've got a real party going on in #121. Who's the band? Are they any good? So why weren't we invited?:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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