Are there contradictions in the Mormon writings?

[aj4u]

Let me clarify. I say nope because I have never been taught that Joseph Smith specifically would have the ultimate say in what "glory" of heaven I am assigned or go to.

Would you mind sharing the link that was provided to you? I would like to read it myself.

I don't mind admitting when I am shown that I'm wrong.

Sure let me find it. It is on this thread.

[BenRaines]

aj4u, I just read Travelers post two up. I did not see him saying that LDS were the only ones doing for Christ. As I recall it was " I know of no other religion that assist all it members in keeping the commandments of Christ more consistently world wide than the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints".

I have read the scriptures a few times, Holy Bible, both New and Old Testaments, Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, Pearl of Great Price and no where in there do I find that it says Joseph Smith will be the one who determines where I go after this life. Someone may have said it but unless in scriptures it does not make it doctrine.

Ben Raines

[aj4u]

I have told you why I can believe it over the other versions of this Bible.

I have told you in other threads of the history of the texts of the bibles you depend on for your information of Jesus Christ you believe in.

You have told me that you just think a blanket statement that comes out to "Well they are all about the same"

Kinda like the statement said by some, "Well we are all getting to the same place just taking different roads."

You are confused because of the pollutions of men placed in the versions of bibles you and the rest of Christianity try to have faith in

and they are all shifting sands.

Stand on the solid Rock of Revelation of a true Prophet of God

Matthew 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art

thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it

unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter,

and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell

shall not prevail against it.

Bro. Rudick

Analysis of the KJV

Is the King James Version the Only Bible that a Christian Should Read?

[aj4u]

You are correct, there are a great many good and wonderful people that have not had the opportunity to know Christ. That's why we, as LDS, believe they will have the opportunity in the next life to learn about him, to learn about the plan of salvation that is set out for all of us. We also believe they will have the opportunity to reject or accept it.

That's why temples are of such great importance to us. We can (by proxy) perform ordinances such as baptism for those that accept the Gospel and accept Christ in the next life.

We are the temple of great importance to God.

[aj4u]

Pam Post #64 Ztodd sent me the link: "No God beside me" - FAIRMormon

[pam]

But understand that the temples that the LDS Church has here on this earth are also extremely important to us. The ordinances that are performed are of great importance to us. I was just trying to explain our beliefs in response to your question or statement.

[pam]

Perhaps you could show me specifically where on that link has the idea that Joseph Smith would have a say. I couldn't find anything even mentioning Joseph Smith.

[Traveler]

We are the temple of great importance to God.

The mountain of the L-rd is also a temple of great importance to G-d and its importance in preparing for the L-rd's kingdom on earth as prophesied in ancient scripture. All temple of G-d are established by covenant that his spirit may have place. A true Christian recognizes G-d’s hand in all things and praises G-d for all he provides. I praise G-d for the restoration of his holly temples (as in ancient times) and the sacredness of temple ordinances in these last days.

The Traveler

[Carl62]

Perhaps you could show me specifically where on that link has the idea that Joseph Smith would have a say. I couldn't find anything even mentioning Joseph Smith.

Pam, it just seems like AJ likes to slant things in a way that seemingly makes LDS look bad. The reason I gave the example earlier to him about "so you think Jesus is JUST a prophet" was to give him a slight taste of his own medicine in the same way that anti's CONSTANTLY give to us. All they are about is tearing down, not building up. Personally, I think this guy is a complete waste of time. IMHO, if he hasn't gotten it by now, I honestly don't think he ever will because he will not come out from behind his own wall and allow himself to think just a little outside of his own box.

[pam]

Pam, it just seems like AJ likes to slant things in a way that seemingly makes LDS look bad. The reason I gave the example earlier to him about "so you think Jesus is JUST a prophet" was to give him a slight taste of his own medicine in the same way that anti's CONSTANTLY give to us. All they are about is tearing down, not building up. Personally, I think this guy is a complete waste of time. IMHO, if he hasn't gotten it by now, I honestly don't think he ever will because he will not come out from behind his own wall and allow himself to think just a little outside of his own box.

Thanks Carl. Though I must admit when I gave this response I was kind of hoping for a response from him along the line...Thanks Pam for your thoughts on the subject. Though I'm not sure I agree with them I appreciate your explanation.

You are correct, there are a great many good and wonderful people that have not had the opportunity to know Christ. That's why we, as LDS, believe they will have the opportunity in the next life to learn about him, to learn about the plan of salvation that is set out for all of us. We also believe they will have the opportunity to reject or accept it.

That's why temples are of such great importance to us. We can (by proxy) perform ordinances such as baptism for those that accept the Gospel and accept Christ in the next life.

Instead I get this:

We are the temple of great importance to God.

It does make me question as to whether or not our responses are of any importance at all.

I was trying to take a step back and give AJ the benefit of the doubt here...but again I question.

[Snow]

I was sent a link from a member on the forum that said they do believe that, but Pam tells me you don't. So, I will have to take her word for it and check my reading :huh:comprehension. The last thing I wnt to do is believe something that is not true of you.

A member of the forum? Obviously one who isn't familiar with Mormons.

[pam]

The person is familiar with Mormons who provided the link. However, I believe someone is reading more into what was on the link than what actually there. I could find no mention of Joseph Smith on the link provided.

[Justice]

This seems like a small example, aj4u, but it expresses the principle all are trying to express to you.

Why do you use the version of the Bible you do?

We use the King James Version because a prophet of God told us it was the best one to use. The rest is opinion and preference. To us, the issue is closed because a prophet spoke.

You say "all are about the same and all have mistakes." That is uncertainty. Following a prophet removes those uncertainties.

The issue you need to resolve is that just because you followed a false prophet does not mean we follow a false one. This Church was organized in 1830. Again, almost 200 years ago. The good fruits that have come from the prophet's works are there to see.

[JohnnyRudick]

Analysis of the KJV

Is the King James Version the Only Bible that a Christian Should Read?

AJ

I am well aware that the King James Bible has errors.

I believe it is the most accurate English Bible among the English bibles.

That is all.

And when I speak of more accuracy I speak of the Manuscripts and texts translated and accumulated by Erasmus and the TR.

Not the Manuscripts and texts rejected by him, Beza, William Tyndale, Martin Luther and other who had many if not most of the so called "better" and "newer" manuscripts and who is to say that God did not have a hand in the so called "mistranslation of some of the early English Bibles.

Such as

2 Corinthians 2:17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the

word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of

God speak we in Christ.

The Bible corrupters say - (Better Manuscripts say "peddle")

In light of

2 Corinthians 4:2 But have renounced the hidden things of

dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of

God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending

ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.

Romans 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness

through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own

bodies between themselves:

Romans 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and

worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is

blessed for ever. Amen.

And

1 Nephi 13:25 Wherefore, these things go forth from the Jews in

purity unto the Gentiles, according to the truth which is in God.

1 Nephi 13:26 And after they go forth by the hand of the twelve

apostles of the Lamb, from the Jews unto the Gentiles, thou seest

the formation of a great and abominable church, which is most

abominable above all other churches; for behold, they have taken

away from the gospel of the Lamb many parts which are plain and

most precious; and also many covenants of the Lord have they

taken away.

1 Nephi 13:27 And all this have they done that they might pervert

the right ways of the Lord, that they might blind the eyes and

harden the hearts of the children of men.

1 Nephi 13:28 Wherefore, thou seest that after the book hath gone

forth through the hands of the great and abominable church, that

there are many plain and precious things taken away from the

book, which is the book of the Lamb of God.

1 Nephi 13:29 And after these plain and precious things were

taken away it goeth forth unto all the nations of the Gentiles;

and after it goeth forth unto all the nations of the Gentiles,

yea, even across the many waters which thou hast seen with the

Gentiles which have gone forth out of captivity, thou seest--

because of the many plain and precious things which have been

taken out of the book, which were plain unto the understanding of

the children of men, according to the plainness which is in the

Lamb of God--because of these things which are taken away out of

the gospel of the Lamb, an exceedingly great many do stumble,

yea, insomuch that Satan hath great power over them.

Maybe it wasn't not such a mistake after all.

We could look at other verses but not now I guess;)

The Bibles of the TR paved the way for the Restoration of the Gospel.

O praise the Lord for preserving them to do His Mighty Work.

Bro. Rudick

Edited June 15, 2009 by JohnnyRudick

[aj4u]

This seems like a small example, aj4u, but it expresses the principle all are trying to express to you.

Why do you use the version of the Bible you do?

We use the King James Version because a prophet of God told us it was the best one to use. The rest is opinion and preference. To us, the issue is closed because a prophet spoke.

You say "all are about the same and all have mistakes." That is uncertainty. Following a prophet removes those uncertainties.

The issue you need to resolve is that just because you followed a false prophet does not mean we follow a false one. This Church was organized in 1830. Again, almost 200 years ago. The good fruits that have come from the prophet's works are there to see.

I follow Jesus; He is not a false prophet to me.

[pam]

I think Justice is referring to the group you once belonged to. Not to Jesus.

[Justice]

Sigh.

[aj4u]

I think Justice is referring to the group you once belonged to. Not to Jesus.

Excuse me please my misunderstanding.

BTW, Here is the link and quote you asked for: 1. [back] Brigham Young, "Intelligence, Etc.," Journal of Discourses, reported by G.D. Watt, J.V. Long and others, (Oct. 9, 1859), Vol. 7 (London: Latter-day Saint's Book Depot, 1860), 289–289. off-site wiki Brigham clearly states that Joseph Smith is responsible for this dispensation only: "Joseph Smith holds the keys of this last dispensation, and is now engaged behind the vail in the great work of the last days...no man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith. From the day that the Priesthood was taken from the earth to the winding-up scene of all things, every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are...He holds the keys of that kingdom for the last dispensation..." (emphasis added)

The God Makers/Cartoon - FAIRMormon

[aj4u]

I have no problem with you or me using the KJV

[pam]

Are you really serious in believing that link? The God Makers is an anti-Mormon cartoon making fun of some of our doctrine and so completely twisting it around it's not even funny.

It's all a falsehood and totally unbelievable.

[pam]

Christ will be the final judge. Not Joseph Smith.

[Justice]

I thought you said you weren't going to any anti-LDS sites?

Oh, wait, my bad... you're reading anti-Mormon propaganda posted at pro-LDS sites.

Well, it's funny you can read the anti-stuff there and ignore the answers they give.

[aj4u]

Pam, it just seems like AJ likes to slant things in a way that seemingly makes LDS look bad. The reason I gave the example earlier to him about "so you think Jesus is JUST a prophet" was to give him a slight taste of his own medicine in the same way that anti's CONSTANTLY give to us. All they are about is tearing down, not building up. Personally, I think this guy is a complete waste of time. IMHO, if he hasn't gotten it by now, I honestly don't think he ever will because he will not come out from behind his own wall and allow himself to think just a little outside of his own box.

It seems you are judging me. Look at Mat. 7, and while you at it take a look at these. IMHO, The Correctly translated Holy Bible has NO equal!1 CORINTHIANS

46-3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

EPHESIANS

49-2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,

Acts 44-17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

44-7:49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?

ISAIAH

23-66:1 Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?

Edited June 15, 2009 by aj4u

[Hemidakota]

If you cannot accept the Book of Mormon, another testament of Jesus the Christ, wait until other works and recorded history of the Savior spent with beside those in the middle east or the Americas. :)

[pam]

AJ you mentioned earlier that someone on this site provided that link to you. In fact you mentioned ztodd. You also mentioned it was done in this thread. I would like you to show me WHERE that link was provided on this thread. If you can't, then I am going to assume that YOU provided the link to somehow further your agenda which is now becoming quite clear. At least to me.