Are there contradictions in the Mormon writings?

[JohnnyRudick]

That is a good point, but some times I try to search out whether it is or not by going to the original Greek and Hebrew text.

Hay! I find that interesting right there:o

You have the original Hebrew Old Testament or the original Greek New Testament?

Cool!!!!

Bro. Rudick

[JohnnyRudick]

Howdy,

All religious texts have contradictions. Usually, the contradictions are a matter of discussion on what is figurative or literal, or taking something to be specific when it was meant to be general, or confusing doctrine with what is merely common custom, or mistaking an opinion for divine inspiration. It is the same for every religion.

Regards,

Kawazu

I find the exception to be in the words of Jesus.

If it is figuratively He will say, I tell you a parable. . ., or It is as a. . . or some such praise.

Most of the time we have simular clues elsewhere.

And when we don't Jesus will in many cases quote or refer to the event either as fiction or not.

I have no problems any more with this since about 1986.

Study will mess with your mind I guess.

Bro. Rudick

[Snow]

Fishing mostly, but Jesus said, "If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true" but in another place Jesus said, "If I bear witness of myself, my witness is true." This seems like a contradiction to me. I have my opinion of this. Your comment.

Since the author of John was not an eyewitness to what was actually said, what makes you think he even got the quote right?

[john doe]

You know, generally when someone comes here to show us the error of our ways, usually they come with ammunition. Aj comes here with no ammunition, asking to borrow some of ours so he can use it against us. The guy may not be too bright, but he does have guts.

[MsMagnolia]

I am not sure how this fits the topic of this thread.

You orignally asked how we handle contradictions and then say this to the person who tells you how they handle the contradiction?

can anyone say... CONTRADICTION!!!!!!

yehaw! I am on the merry go round!

[Elgama]

I haven't read any of the other replies yet so could be repeating a lot, however for me this is the easiest question to answer.

We are human trying to understand the divine, of course there will be contradictions because as humans we cannot understand the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

And that is why modern revelation and a current prophet is so vital - it helps us to move forward and understand more than the previous generations

Just as my understanding growing and my progression enables me to understand apparent contradictions in the bible or between the bible and the Book of Mormon, as we progress as a church misunderstandings get cleared up when we are ready to understand.

Ours is a church which encourages eternal progression and growth as a result contradictions are to be expected. If you claim the Bible to be the only source of truth then it cannot have contradictions because you cannot grow beyond it

My favourite scripture is Mormon 9:31 the gist of which is that we should be glad God has made known the failiings and understandings of previous generations so we can learn wisdom and grow.

-Charley

Edited June 13, 2009 by Elgama

[Elgama]

You know, generally when someone comes here to show us the error of our ways, usually they come with ammunition. Aj comes here with no ammunition, asking to borrow some of ours so he can use it against us. The guy may not be too bright, but he does have guts.

i so wish we still had the laugh button

-Charley

[Hemidakota]

That is a good point, but some times I try to search out whether it is or not by going to the original Greek and Hebrew text.

A course in Adamant language would help knowing it was the first language of this earth.

[Seanette]

You orignally asked how we handle contradictions and then say this to the person who tells you how they handle the contradiction?

can anyone say... CONTRADICTION!!!!!!

yehaw! I am on the merry go round!

Thanks. I had thought what I said was a responsive answer to the question asked (it certainly made a logical connection in my head). Nice to know I'm not losing what grip I have.

Gorgeous bird in the avatar, BTW. Would anyone gripe about starting a pet thread in General?

[Elgama]

A course in Adamant language would help knowing it was the first language of this earth.

here is one:)

YouTube - Adam & The Ants - Prince Charming

I now understand my scriptures much better

[Dravin]

A course in Adamant language would help knowing it was the first language of this earth.

Particularly if we could get our hands on the plates of Ether. At least I'm assuming they'd be in some form of Adamic as their language wasn't confused at the tower of Babel. Wouldn't mind the records prior to that event either, we know Adam and his descendants kept a book of remembrance.

[rameumptom]

LDS believe there are core doctrines that never change and do not contradict. We also believe there are various teachings, some of which are correct, and others that may not be. "We believe the Bible insofar as it is translated correctly." This means translated by those who have made the translations over the centuries, but also on how it is interpreted by leaders and by us today.

We do not have creeds, like many other religions. We have had leaders who have spoken very authoritatively in the past regarding their views and teachings. However, those were not necessarily based upon full core doctrine. Each of us is to strive for the Holy Ghost, in order to understand these things as correctly as possible. Yet, we also need to be humble enough to realize that the Holy Spirit can only teach us as much as we are ready to receive. If we do not study and ponder, we are limited on what we may learn from the Spirit. If we are closed-minded on certain issues, the Spirit cannot and will not enlighten us. And sometimes the Lord determines we just aren't ready for some answers.

Our leaders today encourage us to focus on the core doctrines and principles. It is in those things that we can find our testimonies, our faith, and our salvation.

As for the scriptures, when it comes to the core doctrines, there are few contradictions that I can find. Most of those I tend to put to bad translation over the centuries.

Core doctrine is usually easier to determine, because when the scriptures are all taken into context, one can find the major themes, and how they work together. In this, the Book of Mormon tends to be more consistent than the Bible. But then, the Bible has gone through a lot of revisions and political intrigue over the millenia.

[aj4u]

Uh, it's not clear how discussion of continuing revelation fits into "evolution of prophecy"?

:offtopic:You are speaking of the evolution of prophecy, but look at the title of the thread. Maybe we could bring this on track by asking how do you know that prophets are from God? Not all that claim to be spokesman for God are from God. One way I judge prophets is by what they say and how it lines up with Scriptures and whether or not their prophecies come to pass. If they contradict the word in the Holy Bible and their prophecy fails, that is a red flag. :ohnoyoudont:If someone fails to see the flag, they are in deep trouble and deception. Edited June 13, 2009 by aj4u

[Faded]

First of all, EVERYONE CALM DOWN!! I don't think that AJ is trying to pick a fight and if they are, it isn't readily apparent. I know that as a religion we're accustomed to being verbally assaulted for our beliefs, but I just don't believe that is the case here. I think it is a valid question and a valid topic for discussion.

To be honest with you, I don't know where the congregation of churches rejected plurality in marriage. It is also rejected from society as a whole especially in this country. Isn’t that a contradiction from the way things were done in the OT? In fact, there really isn’t anything stated against plurality in the Bible as a whole that I can find. I know it states that if one wants to be a bishop he should be the husband of one wife. Does any have a take on this? I know this used to be a practice in the Mormon Church, but they were denied status of a state if they didn’t stop the practice. I don’t see from a Biblical basis why all the opposition. These are areas I don’t understand and welcome input. From both a sides of the spectrum.

This is one of many items that Christian Traditionalism has deemed to be the will of God, even though they have absolutely no basis for their conclusion. It's simply a matter of taking the sense of morality according to one non-Biblical tradition or another and imposing it upon Christendom. We know from internal textual evidence that the birth of Christ was in the Spring and not anywhere near the Winter Solstice. This is another case of taking non-Biblical Traditions and implementing them into Christianity. Many Pagan faiths had significant observances at the Winter Solstice, so it amounts to inserting a Christian holiday to make it easier for those pagan peoples to convert to Christianity. The self-contradicting aspect of the Trinity Doctrine (three beings that are one being and three at the same time) bears better resemblance to the Greek Mysteries than it does to anything in the Bible. Much of the ritualism that developed over time is completely non-Biblical as well, but bears a lot of resemblance to pagan rituals. Christmas trees and the Easter Bunny are entirely pagan in their origins. Rabbits and eggs are symbols of fertility and are directly borrowed from fertility holidays and observances -- perfect for the Springtime. Christmas Trees, Holly, Mistletoe and other evergreen things were used by many pagan religions to remind the Sun to come back and turn the world green again.

One thing that I would ask: If you have something from LDS writings or sermons, etc, that you believe to be contradictory, please study it in greater depth and read around it. Simply put, try to be sure that the LDS source really is contradicting things and be sure that the writer/speaker has authority to make official statements for the LDS Church. If you still feel it is contradictory, then share it.

Considering the hostile response, I can understand your caution.

[aj4u]

LDS believe there are core doctrines that never change and do not contradict. We also believe there are various teachings, some of which are correct, and others that may not be. "We believe the Bible insofar as it is translated correctly." This means translated by those who have made the translations over the centuries, but also on how it is interpreted by leaders and by us today.

We do not have creeds, like many other religions. We have had leaders who have spoken very authoritatively in the past regarding their views and teachings. However, those were not necessarily based upon full core doctrine. Each of us is to strive for the Holy Ghost, in order to understand these things as correctly as possible. Yet, we also need to be humble enough to realize that the Holy Spirit can only teach us as much as we are ready to receive. If we do not study and ponder, we are limited on what we may learn from the Spirit. If we are closed-minded on certain issues, the Spirit cannot and will not enlighten us. And sometimes the Lord determines we just aren't ready for some answers..

We can always search out the correct translation. No one says we have to follow the translations of the KJV, NIV or the many others.

Our leaders today encourage us to focus on the core doctrines and principles. It is in those things that we can find our testimonies, our faith, and our salvation...

What are those core beliefs and how well do they line up the the proper translation of the Bible?

As for the scriptures, when it comes to the core doctrines, there are few contradictions that I can find. Most of those I tend to put to bad translation over the centuries.

Core doctrine is usually easier to determine, because when the scriptures are all taken into context, one can find the major themes, and how they work together. In this, the Book of Mormon tends to be more consistent than the Bible. But then, the Bible has gone through a lot of revisions and political intrigue over the millenia.

What Scriptures are you referring to, and what few contradictions do you find in core doctrine? Are they in the BOM or the Bible or both? Edited June 13, 2009 by aj4u

[Elgama]

:offtopic:You are speaking of the evolution of prophecy, but look at the title of the thread. Maybe we could bring this on track by asking how do you know that prophets are from God? Not all that claim to be spokesman for God are from God. One way I judge prophets is by what they say and how it lines up with Scriptures and whether or not their prophecies come to pass. If they contradict the word in the Holy Bible and their prophecy fails, that is a red flag. :ohnoyoudont:If someone fails to see the flag, they are in deep trouble and deception.

The evolution of prophecy is why contradictions are of no problem to a Latter Day Saint we do not turn our prophets into God.

How do you know the Bible is the Word of God? - I know the Bible is the Word of God because God says it is, same way I know the Prophets we have now are the Word of God

I tend to put what God says himself over that of any man, including Biblical Writers - why do you place men before God? never have understood that for me anyone that insists the Bible come before personal revelation is worshipping an idol

-Charley

[mountthepavement]

I tend to put what God says himself over that of any man, including Biblical Writers - why do you place men before God? never have understood that for me anyone that insists the Bible come before personal revelation is worshipping an idol

-Charley

Are all true believers prophets or "revelators" to a degree?

[aj4u]

AJ, when you come on here ... asking "how do we handle contradictions in the Mormon church?" automatically assuming that we have any, then yes, I WILL stand in defense of my church because I already know from reading your previous posts where this thread is gonna go! So as far as the Merry-go-Round is concerned, I'm on this 'til the absolute very end. Let's start the ride!

:roflmbo:Who said there wasn't a laugh button? Enjoy the ride.:lol:I was asked how I deal with contradictions in the Bible. I answered that question, and now I am asking how you deal with yours in LDS doctrines and beliefs etc. I think it is a fair and reaonable question. I know you have them so why do you pretend differently. At least Snow was honest in saying "contradiction exist so what." I don't feel the true church of God needs to be defended. The true church is always on the offensive against the strong holds of Satan and his deception. In other words, I believe the best defensive is a good offensive in the name and power of Jesus. Edited June 13, 2009 by aj4u

[aj4u]

i so wish we still had the laugh button

-Charley

:roflmbo::roflmbo:

[aj4u]

A course in Adamant language would help knowing it was the first language of this earth.

Lets not leave out Aramic

[aj4u]

Hay! I find that interesting right there:o

You have the original Hebrew Old Testament or the original Greek New Testament?

Cool!!!!

Bro. Rudick

No, but I believe it is more accessible than the golden plates.

[Seanette]

You are speaking of the evolution of prophecy, but look at the title of the thread. Maybe we could bring this on track by asking how do you know that prophets are from God? Not all that claim to be spokesman for God are from God. One way I judge prophets is by what they say and how it lines up with Scriptures and whether or not their prophecies come to pass. If they contradict the word in the Holy Bible and their prophecy fails, that is a red flag. If someone fails to see the flag, they are in deep trouble and deception.

That wasn't the topic of the message to which I was actually replying. Ever hear of thread drift?

How in the world do you think the Bible came to be, anyway? Yep, prophets. Going to rule out Jonah because Nineveh wasn't destroyed?

Tell me where in the Bible God states that he will no longer speak to His children on earth, please. Also, why would He bother to warn us about false prophets instead of just stating there would be no further prophets, unless there were to be TRUE prophets?

Edited June 13, 2009 by Seanette
edited out two of the most irritating animated smilies I've ever seen

[aj4u]

Are all true believers prophets or "revelators" to a degree?

Yes, but they would never come against the inspired ancient text! Man inspired of God wrote these Manuscripts, and God does not change with time. His word is established forever. Those who don't believe that are push or tossed around like the waves of the sea with no stabilizing ballast. Those who refuse the love of the truth, God sends them a strong delusion that they may believe a lie.

[Traveler]

:offtopic:You are speaking of the evolution of prophecy, but look at the title of the thread. Maybe we could bring this on track by asking how do you know that prophets are from God? Not all that claim to be spokesman for God are from God. One way I judge prophets is by what they say and how it lines up with Scriptures and whether or not their prophecies come to pass. If they contradict the word in the Holy Bible and their prophecy fails, that is a red flag. :ohnoyoudont:If someone fails to see the flag, they are in deep trouble and deception.

It appears to me that your methods of discernment are very similar to the methods of the Pharisees and Scribes that were used to condemn Jesus and judge him worthy of death.

Point1. The things of G-d (including scripture) will appear contradictory and foolish except understood through the spirit of G-d. Since the vast majority of the world (especially the wise and scholarly) tends to rely on philosophies of man (AKA ancient experts such as the example of the Scribes and Pharisees) the proper view as inspired by G-d will appear contradictory and foolish to most of the world’s religious experts.

Point2. Jesus taught that a tree (note that trees are often used in scripture as a symbolic reference to man) be understood not by their doctrine but by their deeds. In other words if someone is loving and compassionate towards others even if they are a Samaritan (devout in false religious doctrines) that they are better examples of the truths of G-d than a Priest or Levite (devout in correct religious doctrines) but are not compassionate.

The Traveler

[aj4u]

That wasn't the topic of the message to which I was actually replying. Ever hear of thread drift?

How in the world do you think the Bible came to be, anyway? Yep, prophets. Going to rule out Jonah because Nineveh wasn't destroyed?

Tell me where in the Bible God states that he will no longer speak to His children on earth, please. Also, why would He bother to warn us about false prophets instead of just stating there would be no further prophets, unless there were to be TRUE prophets?

:captain:Okay lets drift. Jonah didn't say God would destroy Nineveh whether they repented or not. They repented.