JohnnyRudick Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 Still tryin; to find that laugh button:roflmbo: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ich1ban Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 · Hidden Hidden Does it occur to anyone here that Joseph Smith might be what Matthew was telling us in the New Testament? Matt 24:23-25 "Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There!' do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand. I am not here to start a riot, just disprove me..... Link to comment
Islander Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 · Hidden Hidden Does it occur to anyone here that Joseph Smith might be what Matthew was telling us in the New Testament?Matt 24:23-25"Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There!' do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand.I am not here to start a riot, just disprove me.....Have you read the Book of Mormon? It is abundantly clear that you know very little about who Joseph was and what he taught. There is nothing to disprove for you have said, really, nothing. Link to comment
tizzyk Posted July 29, 2009 Report Share Posted July 29, 2009 just_A_guy....that is a interesting way to look at it. Personally, the fact that men can have more than one wife, doesn't in itself bother me persay...but what gets at me is that women cannot have more than one man....not that I would want it or anything I'm just wondering why there is a gap in rights between man and woman and why in God's perfection....he should "create" a gap between man and woman. It's always kind of bugged me, but I don't usually think too much on the matter. If anyone has any insight for me...that would be appreciated. And annamaureen....I hope you can find your peace. I think how Just_A_Guy said it, is a good way to look at it, and it may in some way, bring the comfort that you are looking for, if you choose to think of it in that way. Best of luck to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JavonCollins Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Heres my 2 cents.First of all a link to our current stance as "The Church" is concerned Polygamy: Latter-day Saints and the Practice of Plural Marriage - LDS NewsroomThe issue comes with earthly order/law v.s Celestial order. We do not know how things are going to be after all is said in done. There are teasers and bits and pieces that we have received that gives us ideas of what type of people go where.We know that God understands all things and Polygamy is a principle of the Gospel, also that of Celestial order. If it wasn't a principle it wouldn't have ever been implemented in the scriptures nor the early church. Many principles have been instituted to help us in preparation for "higher laws", and we must understand this. Like tithing towards law of consecration. Related, but one being more preparatory towards the other. Polygamy will likely be instituted after this life as we know. But it is like any other principle we don't fully understand, requiring our faith that Heavenly Father will make known in His time the manner in which polygamy may work in the Celestial order of things. Go to the temple, study, pray, all the primary answers...ect. Pray for help that you can understand whats NEEDED and simply push to move on past emotions and logic. I often find that when we struggle with a certain principle in our lives or to understand something, its cause we are not doing something we should be, or could be doing better. Anyways, my 2 cents. ;] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEthePrimate Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 I'll keep this short and sweet: the idea of polygamy in the eternities is seriously hurting my testimony. I posted about this in the past, and got mixed answers. I'm not trying to discuss doctrine, or polygamy, as I know there are many threads on the subject... I just need to know how to stop thinking about it. I've talked to my bishop, and read my scriptures, and prayed (sometimes, literally sobbing on my knees, begging God to comfort me,) and have received no peace on the matter. This has been bothering me for months. I've never had something affect my testimony this badly before, and all my usual "tactics" for restoring it aren't working. I can't look at my husband without imagining having to share him, and the resentment, fear, and confusion is building up inside me.Help? It's perfectly understandable that polygamy should bother you. In fact, I'd be rather worried if it didn't cause you to wonder! God doesn't want us to just accept things that other people say. He likes for us to ponder and study questions out for ourselves, talk with Him about our questions, etc. Personally, I think polygamy was a bad idea. However, it doesn't mean the Church is all false and evil. It just means that its leaders are (*gasp!* heresy!) fallible human beings who make mistakes.Having said that, I don't know everything. What you do with the concept of polygamy is ultimately up to you. Pray and ask God about it--no need to rely on me or any other human being for the answers. (Yes, I'm somewhat of a mystic, stressing the importance of personal communion with God rather than going through intermediaries!)Shalom, my friend.HEP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bytor2112 Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Personally, I think polygamy was a bad idea. However, it doesn't mean the Church is all false and evil. It just means that its leaders are (*gasp!* heresy!) fallible human beings who make mistakes.So....your saying that polygamy is a bad idea...from God? Or just a bad idea from Joseph Smith and not from God at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEthePrimate Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 So....your saying that polygamy is a bad idea...from God? Or just a bad idea from Joseph Smith and not from God at all?What do you think I'm saying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john doe Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 What do you think I'm saying?You are the one who said it, why not clarify what you said? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deseretgov Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Said what he said she said they said, said said said said said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEthePrimate Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 You are the one who said it, why not clarify what you said?Oh, come on. Do you honestly think I was saying that God commanded the Saints to do something bad? Give me a break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deseretgov Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Why, was something bad done? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEthePrimate Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Why, was something bad done?Only if you consider diddling underage girls and other men's wives bad... Let alone having multiple wives, breaking up family relationships, causing people untold emotional pain, etc.But if those things are not bad, then no! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elgama Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Only if you consider diddling underage girls and other men's wives bad... Let alone having multiple wives, breaking up family relationships, causing people untold emotional pain, etc.But if those things are not bad, then no! :)very biblical^_^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEthePrimate Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 very biblical^_^ Forgive me for being obtuse, but that can be taken so many ways I really don't know what you're trying to say!HEP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elgama Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Forgive me for being obtuse, but that can be taken so many ways I really don't know what you're trying to say!HEPthat was the point of the comment - however everything in your sentence has happened in the church since Adam:o It is never good to judge past morality based on our own era, even with the early church - at least in the UK much of it was pre Queen Victoria which is the basis of our modern morality. Its not that long ago 12 year olds could get married in the US, or that polygamy was allowed as long as you were a slave etc-Charley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bytor2112 Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 (edited) Oh, come on. Do you honestly think I was saying that God commanded the Saints to do something bad? Give me a break.You are either saying that or you are saying that JS led the Saints astray.....and since the majority of Saints sustain JS as a Prophet, then to some of us that is like claiming that God commanded the Saints to do something bad.Only if you consider diddling underage girls and other men's wives bad... Let alone having multiple wives, breaking up family relationships, causing people untold emotional pain, etc.But if those things are not bad, then no! :)I am assuming you are referring to JS when you make these accusations. Do you have evidence that he "diddled" underage girls and other men's wives? Are you suggesting that JS was a fallen prophet and that BY and other Prophets, apostles and members that lived this principle were doing so because they were...led astray by JS? Wouldn't Heavenly Father have instructed BY through revelation that polygamy was wrong if JS was wrong? Do you doubt the revelation in D&C regarding plural marriage is from God or do you think JS made it up to legitimize his sexual proclivities? Your statements are pretty damning HEP, and in my opinion, that would mean that the church was not led by revelation from God but by men. Edited July 30, 2009 by bytor2112 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
its_Chet Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Your statements are pretty damning HEP, and in my opinion, that would mean that the church was not led by revelation from God but by men.Not only damning, but insulting. Perhaps not intentionally so, but HEP needs to understand that his accusations are offensive to most members of the Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bytor2112 Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Not only damning, but insulting. Perhaps not intentionally so, but HEP needs to understand that his accusations are offensive to most members of the Church.No doubt......his comments aren't much different than you would find on any anti smear the Mormon's site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john doe Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Oh, come on. Do you honestly think I was saying that God commanded the Saints to do something bad? Give me a break. So, are you saying that polygamy in any form is bad and not from God? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Are you suggesting that JS was a fallen prophet and that BY and other Prophets, apostles and members that lived this principle were doing so because they were...led astray by JS? I just wanted to clarify a couple of things here to those that might be reading this and are unfamiliar with the Church and some of our acronyms.JS = Joseph SmithBY = Brigham Young Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruthiechan Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 I just wanted to clarify a couple of things here to those that might be reading this and are unfamiliar with the Church and some of our acronyms.JS = Joseph SmithBY = Brigham YoungAm I the only one who thinks these acronyms are stupid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breecatasnana Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 just_A_guy....that is a interesting way to look at it. Personally, the fact that men can have more than one wife, doesn't in itself bother me persay...but what gets at me is that women cannot have more than one man....not that I would want it or anything I'm just wondering why there is a gap in rights between man and woman and why in God's perfection....he should "create" a gap between man and woman. It's always kind of bugged me, but I don't usually think too much on the matter. If anyone has any insight for me...that would be appreciated.And annamaureen....I hope you can find your peace. I think how Just_A_Guy said it, is a good way to look at it, and it may in some way, bring the comfort that you are looking for, if you choose to think of it in that way. Best of luck to you.The Book of Mormon tells us the purpose of Polygamy. It says that Polygamy is not to be practiced unless God orders it, and He only orders it to build up a people unto Himself. The purpose of Polygamy is so that more children will be born. If a woman has 10 husbands she can still have only one child at a time, so it would not increase the number of children being born. However, a man having 10 wives can have 10 children at a time, thus greatly increasing the number of children being born to build up a people unto God.Penny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alana Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 (edited) I sense a thread closure soon Has polygamy every been sanctioned by Heavenly Father? Yes. Has Heavenly Father sanctioned polygamy of the saints? Yes.Are Joseph Smith and Brigham Young prophets of God? Yes.Is polygamy to be practiced now? No.Will there be polygamy in the Celestial Glory? YesWill all Celestial men have more than one wife? Don't know.Do we have a loving and wise Heavenly Father who wants what's best for us and wants us to be happy? Yes.Something I read this morning from Chapter 8 of Teachings of Presidents of the Church Heber J. Grant;We sing and have done so constantly, “We thank Thee, O God, for a Prophet to guide us in these latter days.” [Hymns,no. 19.]There are a great many who … put a postscript to that and say: “Provided he guides us to suit our own fancies and our own whims.”The prophets of God, from Joseph Smith to the present day, have guided us and they have guided us aright, when we have listened to that guidance. The mistakes which have been made have been because of our failure to listen to the prophet whose right it is to guide the people of God. …This chapter entitled Following Those Whom God Has Chosen To Preside is basically President Grant bearing his testimony of the righteousness of the prophets, how they are guided by Heavently Father. Our prophets are righteous men and if we don't understand why polygamy was practiced that doesn't mean those prophets which practiced it were in fault. They were still men and not perfect, but they always lead the church in the will of Heavenly Father. Edited July 30, 2009 by Alana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breecatasnana Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 I sense a thread closure soon Has polygamy every been sanctioned by Heavenly Father? Yes. Has Heavenly Father sanctioned polygamy of the saints? Yes.Are Joseph Smith and Brigham Young prophets of God? Yes.Is polygamy to be practiced now? No.Will there be polygamy in the Celestial Glory? YesWill all Celestial men have more than one wife? Don't know.Do we have a loving and wise Heavenly Father who wants what's best for us and wants us to be happy? Yes.Something I read this morning from Chapter 8 of Teachings of Presidents of the Church Heber J. Grant;We sing and have done so constantly, “We thank Thee, O God, for a Prophet to guide us in these latter days.” [Hymns,no. 19.]There are a great many who … put a postscript to that and say: “Provided he guides us to suit our own fancies and our own whims.”The prophets of God, from Joseph Smith to the present day, have guided us and they have guided us aright, when we have listened to that guidance. The mistakes which have been made have been because of our failure to listen to the prophet whose right it is to guide the people of God. …Amen and amen. You have a great way of summing things up.Penny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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