Need Bishoply Advice

[MorningStar]

Or if anyone else knows, how does it work when one ward member gets a restraining order against another ward member? Do they have to go to another ward? Long story. I'll spare you the details.

[miztrniceguy]

i would think you would go to the police department and file a complaint, and ask for a RO

[Guest Alana]

i would think you would go to the police department and file a complaint, and ask for a RO

I don't think the question is how to get a restraining order, but who leaves the ward when you're in the same ward. My guess (not worth much:P) is that the person who has the restraining order against them is still considered part of the ward, but can not attend at the same time as the other person, so if they still want to partake of the sacrament, they'll need to go during a time that you're not in the building. If there is a ward party and you're there, then the other person would need to leave.

[BenRaines]

As an aside. If you know the person who the restraining order is against is somewhere you can't just go there so that they have to leave. As I recall the order is that they can't approach where you are but you can't use an RO to chase someone away.

Ben Raines

[MorningStar]

Yes, that's what I want to know. If it became necessary, it would affect their spouse too if they had to go somewhere else. It would cause a lot of weirdness in the ward. I would rather just move if I can. They are settled into a new house now.

[MorningStar]

As an aside. If you know the person who the restraining order is against is somewhere you can't just go there so that they have to leave. As I recall the order is that they can't approach where you are but you can't use an RO to chase someone away.

Ben Raines

Yeah, that would be an unkind thing to do. Thanks for the tip. Another thing I'm wondering - when I change wards, what if they asked our ward clerk where our records were sent to? Do they keep that information private? I don't want letters, phone calls, e-mails, etc. from this person.

[Guest missingsomething]

ok im not an expert here... but if you have a restraining order against you then I would say yes then you would say you need to go another ward... the ward can not supercede the law?... right? But I would say this person needs to talk to their bishop and explain what's going on... sounds like there are bigger and possibly deeper issues here

[MorningStar]

Yeah, I was just wondering if any bishops or former bishops had ever encountered a situation like that. Right now I don't think it will come to that, but if I have to, I will.

[BenRaines]

Easiest thing would be to go to your Bishop and explain the situation. He will go to Stake President and get permission for you to attend another ward in the stake or another stake.

If they person you are worried about logs in to the Stake Website they are able to see you church record as far as address. Perhaps you can request it not be displayed.

I would suggest another stake if one close enough.

No clerk or member of Bishopric should give out your address or phone number. Best thing is to make Bishop aware of problem and then he makes sure no one gives it out.

Ben Raines

[LDSVALLEY]

From Canada I know of a situation where a restraining order was given that involved two people who worked near each other in the same department at their work and attended the same church (not lds) The restraining order did not prevent both from doing these two things. The one it was against was not allowed to interact with the other. Elsewhere they had to maintain whatever distance a restraining order calls for.

Legally I am not sure how it would work for your area, if it effects freedom of religion or not.

The department that did the restraining order should be able to answer the question or a lawyer if you know one.

[MarginOfError]

As Ben Raines said, if you talk to your bishop and stake president, they can make arrangements for you to attend a different ward. If you would like, you can arrange for your name not to appear on the ward's online directory. Talk to your ward clerk and/or ward website administrator. If you request that change be made, they are required to oblige within 24 hours. (Actually there are several levels of privacy that include hiding address, phone number, children, or the entire record, or any combination of those). The Church takes privacy very seriously and will do everything they can to accommodate your privacy needs. Ward clerks and leadership should never reveal where records are moved to, especially if you make it know you wish for that information to be kept confidential.

[MorningStar]

Ideally she would get intense therapy. I really don't want to put her through the humiliation of a restraining order. Maybe a better option would be to ask to go to a different ward. She was told most emphatically that I didn't want any contact. I thought maybe it wasn't explained well, but contact continues, and multiple people have told her to leave me completely alone (after she approached them and asked what was wrong with me - was I not calling her back because I'm depressed?). Just when I think things are quieting down, they pick up again. My husband thinks she is just extremely clueless. She went from being a nuisance to completely freaking me out. It seemed she was one step away from threatening suicide if I didn't call her (she left me a crying voicemail saying her dad was suicidal and could I call back with information about the church's recovery group - I'm not the only person who could locate that for her. In fact, Google could locate that for her.). I can't handle that. I don't need someone holding their depression (or loved one's depression) over my head. I don't think she is a danger to me, so I have asked the RS Pres. for help. She is a very kind lady and I thought involving the bishop might feel a little threatening to her. Now I just found out she is trying to get my best friend's phone number in the ward (her cell phone isn't listed and she dropped her landline), supposedly for legitimate reasons. My friend is freaked out she will get it and call her because she has witnessed her behavior - calling me 5 times in a row, calling me from her home, then from her cell phone, then from her husband's cell phone, then from her mother's house. The last RS pres. said she was trying to track me down one night when I was over there practicing. She noticed on her own that there was a problem. Multiple people have problems with her, but she is apparently obsessed with me. My husband said, "I guess you can be flattered someone likes you so much." Well I'm not flattered!

I would be happy for some kind or order that just made her stop phone calls, e-mails, leaving gifts on my doorstep, etc. I've been dealing with seeing her at church OK, but hate the awkwardness. On the days she doesn't attempt conversation with me, she'll talk to my baby instead. I'm trying not to make it obvious to everyone in the ward that I'm having such a problem with her. I hope she will develop healthy friendships eventually. But then I don't want to seem extremely rude when I'm in a social situation at church and ignoring someone who is talking to me.

Someone noticed some red flags on her blog and contacted her husband, but he just blew them off. She has said over and over again that she has postpartum depression (with every kid she has said this) and she had written a pretty disturbing post. He said, "Well, I can't say I really know what postpartum depression is." He thanked her for the concern and basically humored her, but obviously he wasn't going to do anything. He is very anti-doctor of any kind. He's a whole other story. I doubt he even knows what his wife is up to.

[MorningStar]

Thank you all for your responses. Since this nonsense started, I am so hesitant to get to know new people now. I feel very sorry for her, but I can't give her what she wants. I was direct with her. I told her specifically to stop engaging in certain behaviors, but she wouldn't. She always had an excuse for breaking those rules. She lost most of her hope at real friendships in our ward when she asked a woman for a baby shower. When she was told no, she was furious, started calling everyone to tell them how rude she was, kept asking other people for showers, and one friend stopped talking to her because she said she was so mad, she "wanted to rub poo in her face". That freaked the friend out. I explained that it's not socially acceptable to ask for baby showers and if she were to have one, wouldn't she rather have it offered and know that it's not being given begrudgingly? She's not even friends with her! I pointed that out and she thought she owed it to her because she had attended her scrapbooking parties. I said, "No one ever owes you a baby shower and you already have a boy and a girl." She wrote to the RS pres. to rant about it and asked, "Am I out of line?" She said, "Yes, you are out of line" and wrote her a long letter about her behavior. Weeks later she said she was thinking of moving because of all the "prideful people" in the ward that she wasn't getting along with. But now they bought a house in the ward. *cry*

She can't be reasoned with. 20 people can tell her the same thing and she's not wrong, they are. I tell her not to call me at 11:30 at night, but she's excused because it's an "emergency" (wants to talk about her problems). This is what a therapist is for. When I see new people move into the ward, it is really hard not to warn them about her. They figure it out eventually, but not without some grief. I'll continue to bite my tongue. I tried my best to be a friend, then tried distancing myself (which made her act even worse), then the final straw happened and after 4 months of ignoring her completely, she is still fixated on me. Even if she had other friends in the ward, I still don't think she would give up.

[MorningStar]

I just found out my state has a specific protection order for harassment:

Unlawful harassment means a knowing and willful course of conduct directed at a specific person which seriously alarms, annoys, or harasses, or is detrimental to such person and which serves no legitimate or lawful purpose. The course of conduct shall be such as would cause a reasonable person to suffer substantial emotional distress and shall actually cause substantial emotional distress to the petitioner or when the course of conduct would cause a reasonable parent to fear for the well-being of their child. Course of conduct means a pattern of conduct composed of a series of acts over a period of time, however short, evidencing a continuity of purpose. “Course of conduct” includes, in addition to any other form of communication, contact, or conduct, the sending of an electronic communication. Constitutionally protected activities are not included within the meaning of “course of conduct.”

I hope that doesn't come in handy.

[Misshalfway]

Is this that same psycho neighbor?

[MorningStar]

Yes, my former neighbor. She moved in upstairs - the same place my best friend moved out of, lived here a few months, moved into a rented house in the ward, and a while after I got off crutches, that's when she started making really weird requests. She would ask, "What are you doing today?" "Oh, I'm going to visit my mom. I'm stopping by the church bookstore on the way there." "While you're over there, will you exchange my husband's garments?" Uhhhhh ..... I felt weird about doing that, plus it's not even in the same building. She knows how to act normal for a period of time, but then comes the constant asking for favors and disrespecting your boundaries constantly. Even though I told her, "Stop calling me 5 times in a row", she kept doing it because THAT time she had a really good reason for it (didn't). And calling twice in a row on Christmas morning. Thank goodness I don't have a cell phone.

[Seanette]

If they person you are worried about logs in to the Stake Website they are able to see you church record as far as address. Perhaps you can request it not be displayed.

In my experience, I can only access member information for people in my own ward or phone numbers for stake leaders. Was a nuisance trying to find contact info for YM/YW leaders in other wards when I was assigned as coordinator for a multi-ward service project in my stake.

[MarginOfError]

In my experience, I can only access member information for people in my own ward or phone numbers for stake leaders. Was a nuisance trying to find contact info for YM/YW leaders in other wards when I was assigned as coordinator for a multi-ward service project in my stake.

You actually can access membership information from directories on any ward website within your home stake. If you go to the stake home page, there will be a list of the wards in the stake. Click on the ward you want and you can access the leader and membership directories as you would for your own ward. This is only available through the official church local unit websites and cannot be accessed from the ward's in-house records.

[NeuroTypical]

This lady sounds like she's struggling with some sort of mental illness. The commandment is to love her. That doesn't mean exposing yourself or those within your stewardship to harassing or unwanted contact.

My suggestion: Start a very detailed notebook of every intrusion this lady makes. Record witness information. Pay special attention to threats of suicide or threats directed against other people. When you've got a couple of pages, go see the police. Perhaps they can help her get the help she needs.

Moving also works to an extent - but if she's stalking you, she'll probably find you.

LM

[LDSVALLEY]

My 2 cents worth.

I believe we should help those we can. You can not help this lady and a restraining order, unless your going to enforce every violation of it, will not do you much good I am thinking.

If what you are saying is accurate then this is a disturbed lady who needs help beyond your ability. From experience Relief Society or Bishops are still untrained people who have little more idea then you on what to do. That being said I suggest you meet with the Bishop and fully explain both the problem and what solutions (restraining order, moving, switching wards etc) you are considering. As the last post said document but not only future issues but as much as you can remember about the past. ( hint, from a legal perspective write them in your own hand, date and sign each entry. Computer entries used to not be usable in court as the writer was not able to be verified. Might have changed by now.) Take this information into the Bishop and tell him you need to work out a solution.

He might need to bring it to the Stake etc but something needs to be done. If she is suffering from depression or some other mental issue no member of the Ward is secure, and keep a close eye on your children, if she gets frustrated with you they may be easy targets to get even. If you try and ignore it she might latch onto someone else and if something happened you might have regrets about it.

Last of my two cents worth is this. You mentioned she acted suicidal. Maybe she is maybe she isn't. It makes no difference in your life at all. If you have done all you can reasonably do to help, if you don't invite these things to happen then you are not responsible for her actions at all. The Lord has taught me something that I have used often this year. If we are not responsible for something or someone then we are not accountable for the consequences to the Lord. If she kills herself that is all about her and nothing whatsoever about you. But if you allow her to use the threat to put yourself in a bad situation then something happens to you or a loved on then you are accountable because you are responsible to protect your loved ones.

Hope this helps some.

[jadams_4040]

Yes, that's what I want to know. If it became necessary, it would affect their spouse too if they had to go somewhere else. It would cause a lot of weirdness in the ward. I would rather just move if I can. They are settled into a new house now.

i think i would simply and quietly start attending another ward.:)

[Moksha]

The Bishop's decision sounds good. I think he would focus on how to prevent further harassment if both are allowed to attend the same Church.

[Seanette]

You actually can access membership information from directories on any ward website within your home stake. If you go to the stake home page, there will be a list of the wards in the stake. Click on the ward you want and you can access the leader and membership directories as you would for your own ward. This is only available through the official church local unit websites and cannot be accessed from the ward's in-house records.

That is incorrect, at least in my stake (that thanks was a misclick that I would appreciate having a moderator remove). Believe me, I tried it. Exactly the sequence you claim works, plus a few other ideas. Not one got me the information I needed. I had to use the printed stake directory and contacts in my own ward to find the info I needed.

[LDSVALLEY]

That is incorrect, at least in my stake (that thanks was a misclick that I would appreciate having a moderator remove). Believe me, I tried it. Exactly the sequence you claim works, plus a few other ideas. Not one got me the information I needed. I had to use the printed stake directory and contacts in my own ward to find the info I needed.

I've used it in our Ward several times. I can go to the Stake site and even search all the Wards for a name, or go to the individual Ward and see their directory. Possibly it is an enable feature individual Stakes and turn on or off.

[MorningStar]

This lady sounds like she's struggling with some sort of mental illness. The commandment is to love her. That doesn't mean exposing yourself or those within your stewardship to harassing or unwanted contact.

My suggestion: Start a very detailed notebook of every intrusion this lady makes. Record witness information. Pay special attention to threats of suicide or threats directed against other people. When you've got a couple of pages, go see the police. Perhaps they can help her get the help she needs.

Moving also works to an extent - but if she's stalking you, she'll probably find you.

LM

Thank you. I've been documenting everything she does and saving her e-mails. It seems like she goes in cycles where things calm down and she starts to get desperate again. She's toned it down quite a bit since the RS pres. talked to her, but hasn't respected the no contact request. The most recent e-mail was asking me if I could please call her with info about who the ward employment specialist is because her dad is looking for a job. There are so many people she could ask about that besides me. It's just an excuse to make contact and she can claim, "Well I really needed some info!" And she can add how much she misses talking to me.