I'm out of place.

[Musicme]

I'm a member of the church who was born into the church but in the last year or so I've found that I really don't socially fit in with the other members of my wards. I've lived in 3 different wards in the last 4 years and in all of them I have very little outside of the church in common with the ward members.

I find that my wife and I are very progressive thinkers and we have pretty much been shunned for it. We still follow all of the standards of the church but like I said we just don't fit in. We have different political views and different social views that cause the members of our wards to turn away from us. Like I said before these views are not going against the teachings of the gospel but they sure don't line up with the social standard of our wards.

Having said all of this I'm not sure what to do, I want to still go to church but I'm finding it harder and harder when I have nothing in common with my ward members outside of our Sunday meetings.

Any advice would be welcome.

Thanks,

[qedd]

Do you believe societal or political views are the foundational basis of friendship?

[glow_inthe_dark_girl]

first of all, im sorry to hear your having this problems. but dont feel that way, if you are different and you are a progressive thinker but stick to LDS doctrine, dont worry, you are not alone, i bet you there's other people feeling that way, sometimes satan try to make us feel lonely in churc as if we didnt belong there, and eventually leave church for that reason, but if you believe the church is true, and you have a testimony dont let this happen, I am a socialist myself, not very likely to find socialists in church, so yeah I feel like im the ugly duck sometimes but try to overcome this feelings, if the people in your ward had offended you, well that would be a problem but forgive them , we aren´t perfect.. I havent become friend with all the members in my ward, I have some friends I can count with the fingers of one hand, and will still have some fingers left lol, yeah call me antisocial but is true ,. try to comunicate with the members, find something in common probably you like football , hockey or dont know , and someone might like it as well, so you can do this activities together..if you dont find anything in common, just don't give up, you dont go to church to see the people but to demonstrate our HF you are living the gospel,..

[Musicme]

qedd, no I don't think that friendship is 100% based on political views but it can sure make for some awkward dinner parties. Having said that I don't want to be friends with someone that I can't truly share my whole being with.

glow inthe dark girl, thank you for what you said. I've had to publicly defend myself for my political views in church and I believe that is wrong. I'm also having a hard time with this question along these lines. "What type of church breeds such a large group of people that dislike me for what I socially believe?".

This is where I'm suck, I'm just not sure what to believe anymore when dealing with all of this.

[dazed-and-confused]

ok...so...your friends or fellow members dont share your political veiws..... SO WHAT!!!......church is not about politics....its about spirit....if you dont have that in common, then you might have bigger problems than your friends politcal views

[Musicme]

dazed and confused you are not getting my point and I don't see why you have such a rude tone. Isn't church about fellowship? If your answer is no then why are we all not just learning on Sunday or any other day from our homes alone with our families? If your answer is yes then tell me why I have to defend the way that I vote, see the world, or choose to treat people outside of the church?

Trust me, I know it's about my own personal salvation but if others in my ward are not being Christ like to me because I happen to have a homosexual friend how am I supposed to feel? My wife and I are not going to dictate for others how they need to live and I am not their judge at the end of this life so that is not my place.

So I'll say it again, why am I pretty much shunned when I choose to not hate my neighbor just because they are gay? But others are not shunned when they hate me because of the choice I made to be kind and not full of hate.

[qedd]

qedd, no I don't think that friendship is 100% based on political views but it can sure make for some awkward dinner parties. Having said that I don't want to be friends with someone that I can't truly share my whole being with.

Which reminds me of two things never to discuss at a dinner party: Religion and politics. ;-)

Seriously though, a truly loving friendship is strong enough to endure differences of opinion. However, why get into discussions about divisive topics while in the early stages of establishing a friendship? Build on what you have in common (faith, family, etc.) first, then move on to friendly discussions about temporal differences that matter less (economic policy, etc.) when and if they happen to come up.

glow inthe dark girl, thank you for what you said. I've had to publicly defend myself for my political views in church and I believe that is wrong.

Why did politics come up in Church to begin with?

I'm also having a hard time with this question along these lines. "What type of church breeds such a large group of people that dislike me for what I socially believe?".

This is where I'm suck, I'm just not sure what to believe anymore when dealing with all of this.

People are people. People socially gravitate towards those that are similar to themselves, thus the emphasis to build on common ground first.

As for disliking you for what you socially believe, nobody is perfect.

[qedd]

dazed and confused you are not getting my point and I don't see why you have such a rude tone. Isn't church about fellowship?

Attending church accomplishes a number of things, one of which is fellowship, yes.

... why [do] I have to defend the way that I vote, see the world, or choose to treat people outside of the church?

Partly because some of us want to know what makes the next guy tick -- at least that is how it works for me, and it's nothing personal.

Trust me, I know it's about my own personal salvation but if others in my ward are not being Christ like to me because I happen to have a homosexual friend how am I supposed to feel? My wife and I are not going to dictate for others how they need to live and I am not their judge at the end of this life so that is not my place.

So I'll say it again, why am I pretty much shunned when I choose to not hate my neighbor just because they are gay? But others are not shunned when they hate me because of the choice I made to be kind and not full of hate.

There are three sides to every story: His side, her side, and the truth. ;-) Please don't take offense with the following questions, I'm just looking to better understand the context of the issue at hand...

Besides your choice to befriend an individual that happens to be an homosexual, what statements or other overt gestures or communications have you or your wife made pertaining to your view of appropriate Christ-like behavior towards homosexuals? Have you or your wife made any critical statements about the official Church position on homosexual marriage?

[RachelleDrew]

Don't feel bad, I am often treated differently because of my political association, personality, etc.

I live in an EXTREMELY small town, and even if I don't bring up more serious topics with members of the church, they already known my stance on certain issues just because everyone knows everyone's business here.

Here's the thing; this would happen no matter what religious organization you belonged to. Let's say you joined a progressive religion like the Unitarian Universalists for example, then that organization would have members who instead of shunning you would shun more conservative people. It's the same everywhere you go, and is really more indicative of human nature rather than the church itself.

Just do your best to ride it out. I eventually just came to the conclusion that church was not a place to make friends for me, but rather to worship. I am comfortable with my choice to not worry about friends within the church, but that may not work for you. Maybe you should start trying to befriend other "loners" within the church. Trust me, you aren't the only people there who feel left out. Also try and befriend new members as they come in.

Sorry, I know it sucks to feel put out by your brothers and sisters.

[Musicme]

Thank you again for your input on this. What we have had to do is defend ourselves when some of the members of the ward found out that my wife and I have homosexual friends. They told us that by having them over for dinner, movie, or just to hang out we have a strong chance of "falling into their life style". Also during the elections here in November just because we didn't put a Prop 102 sign in our yard (Prop 102 is to ban gay marrige in our state) the members of the ward sent people over to say that they were worried about our salvation. It's pretty bad, and it's not just the members the bishop was involved too. Now if I remember right the church has always taken a middle of the road stance on politics. Well they stepped in and I'm sorry the church or it's members shouldn't be telling me how to vote.

[Musicme]

Hi RachelleDrew, thank you for saying what you said. It gives me hope that there are others like us out there.

[Hemidakota]

qedd, no I don't think that friendship is 100% based on political views but it can sure make for some awkward dinner parties. Having said that I don't want to be friends with someone that I can't truly share my whole being with.

glow inthe dark girl, thank you for what you said. I've had to publicly defend myself for my political views in church and I believe that is wrong. I'm also having a hard time with this question along these lines. "What type of church breeds such a large group of people that dislike me for what I socially believe?".

This is where I'm suck, I'm just not sure what to believe anymore when dealing with all of this.

What you believe, is it the same as the Savior would concur with?

[ryanh]

Thank you again for your input on this. What we have had to do is defend ourselves when some of the members of the ward found out that my wife and I have homosexual friends. They told us that by having them over for dinner, movie, or just to hang out we have a strong chance of "falling into their life style". Also during the elections here in November just because we didn't put a Prop 102 sign in our yard (Prop 102 is to ban gay marrige in our state) the members of the ward sent people over to say that they were worried about our salvation. It's pretty bad, and it's not just the members the bishop was involved too. Now if I remember right the church has always taken a middle of the road stance on politics. Well they stepped in and I'm sorry the church or it's members shouldn't be telling me how to vote.

Woah! Glad I've never lived in a ward like that! Sounds like a lot more than LDS culture or church teachings going on in those people's minds. Makes me wonder what backwoods area you moved into. I don't want to live there! lol

[Guest Alana]

It is true that Mormons tend to be more conservative than not. It's also true that wards can be cliquish. I do notice though that you said you've been in 3 wards in 4 years. It can be hard to get settled in and get to know people, and it can be hard for established members to get to know new ones, also. I've done the whole moving thing and I've been guilty of finally introducing myself to someone new at church and finding out they've been there for two years lol.

Some of the members are giving you a hard time, but I guarantee you that there are members of your ward who aren't like that. I can guarantee it because that's how it is every where. My ward for instance, is more progressive than conservative. When we were asked to support Yes on 8 (ban gay marriage) there were very strong feelings in the ward, mostly in the negative at first. We have people bring gay visitors to church, and everyone is happy to accept them just like any other visitor. But, we're not some magical accepting ward, we're just like everyone else but we've had more exposure to this situation and a different mixture of political beliefs. I'm sorry that members of your ward aren't being accepting of you. If this means that your association with church members is limited to church activities, that's ok. For me, the number one reason I go to church is to worship my Heavenly Father and to partake of the sacrament. Next for me comes learning and teaching. Social bonuses are just that, a bonus (and yes, I have lived in wards where we didn't have friends).

I hope that although you might not feel close to your ward, it doesn't distance you from the church. I'm not saying it's ok for your ward to act like that, but I hope it doesn't cause you more strife than necessary.

[Danite]

Wow I understand that you must be very furstrated with ward members who judge and condem all that are not like them. Which only serves to hurt those whose opinions are different then own what deeply concerns me is the spirt of pride and self rightness that these members seem to have. Sometimes looking at the truth about people is very depressing. The truth is living the simple sweet truths of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Our greastest enemies are often within our selfs and the church. It takes alot of discerment to tell the saint's from aint's.

Sometimes the church is like Noah's Ark if it wasn't for the storm on the outside, you couldn't stand the smell on the inside.

enduring myself and others

[Wingnut]

What we have had to do is defend ourselves when some of the members of the ward found out that my wife and I have homosexual friends. They told us that by having them over for dinner, movie, or just to hang out we have a strong chance of "falling into their life style".

Well then, your ward member is a big fat idiot. Homosexuality is not contagious, and anyone with half a half a brain knows that.

Also during the elections here in November just because we didn't put a Prop 102 sign in our yard (Prop 102 is to ban gay marrige in our state) the members of the ward sent people over to say that they were worried about our salvation. It's pretty bad, and it's not just the members the bishop was involved too.

Sounds like you need to move away fro the Utah/Idaho/Arizona region, into a less LDS-concentrated area.

Now if I remember right the church has always taken a middle of the road stance on politics. Well they stepped in and I'm sorry the church or it's members shouldn't be telling me how to vote.

The Church occasionally takes a stance on specific political policies or movements, but it's very occasional. They may advise and encourage its members on how to vote, but they don't directly instruct, especially when it comes to specific candidates and parties.

[Generally_Me]

Sounds to me like they don't know you very well, and are making quick judgements on what little bones they are given to chew on mentally. Think about it; someone moves into the neighborhood, claims to be of your religion, but publicly seems to not support that religion. It may be wrong to jump to conclusions, but mankind has a deducing brain (whether it's used or not).

Bottom line: you need to focus on what you have in common with people in the ward. Obviously you have something in common, value-wise, or you would not be LDS. What spoke to you and your wife, convincing you the church was true?

Why don't you tell us what that is, and start focusing on that, rather than the homosexual side of politics? The impression I get from the OP is that the focus is on differences, not similarities.

[rameumptom]

qedd, no I don't think that friendship is 100% based on political views but it can sure make for some awkward dinner parties. Having said that I don't want to be friends with someone that I can't truly share my whole being with.

.

I don't think Church is the place for politics. That said, the reality is there is a lot of it there. Often, the best prescription is to quietly dissent.

As for insisting that friendships require being with "someone that I can truly share my whole being with", aren't you being a little unrealistic? Isn't that what your relationship with God is all about?

Do you go to Church for politically liberal friendships, or for spiritual growth? Perhaps your focus is all wrong. I do not agree with many people on many things, but I'm not so averse as to think they are demons or I'm a demigod, simply because I have a different view.

In the PH/RS Joseph Smith manual, chapter 37, we read:

“Love is one of the chief characteristics of Deity, and ought to be manifested by those who aspire to be the sons of God. A man filled with the love of God, is not content with blessing his family alone, but ranges through the whole world, anxious to bless the whole human race.

Here we see that our goal is not to be blessed, but to bless. You are unhappy with all of your wards, because you want them to meet your needs. That's not how it works. To find joy among others, you need to seek them out and meet their needs and wants (see D&C 82:17-19).

Perhaps more seeking of spiritual things and the things that unite us, you will find common interests and true friendships. Remember, to have friends, you first must be a true friend yourself.

[ladykemma2]

it took me a long time to understand that the church is for me and my spirituality. It is not a social club. I hang with a bunch of mormons who also work the local renaissance faire here in houston, which makes us a rather eclectic crowd. LDS friends are out there if you look. there are a lot of lds folk who will not admit they have gay children or their family has problems. if you are in houston, come hang with us.

to heck with the mollies and the peters. that's the way i look at it. the utah, arizona, and idaho "supersheltered" molly mormon transplants are particularly NOT MY FRIENDS. not friend material. we have nothing in common. I no longer care what people think. My church membership in my ward is solitairy by choice, but not lonely. Flip it and say I don't want to hang with THEM, then decide who you do wish to hang with.

sp how can you make your church membership a membership of calm, peace and joy? for you, not for them. if someone brings up politics, be exquisitely polite (it messes with their heads) and go on your merry way.

[aclaire11]

I think I can relate a bit. I faced a similar situation at my school, which was at least 90% liberal. (Not an exaggeration, they took a poll). So while I didn't have to deal with this problem in Church, I know how it feels to be the minority politically.

My advice is to stay strong. If someone approaches you, either calmly and politely explain why you have gay friends and have progressive viewpoints. This may require research and practice so that you can articulate your views easily. Maybe you could practice with your wife. An alternative is to "lay low" and refuse (politely) to discuss politics.

Ward Member: Why do you have gay friends? What if they lead you into sin?

You: Jesus had dinner with tax collectors and sinners, the Bible tells us to love the sinner but hate the sin, etc.

[Guest TheLutheran]

. . . Isn't church about fellowship? . . . no then why are we all not just learning on Sunday or any other day from our homes alone with our families?

Sorry . . . it's not about you. Church should be about worshipping the Lord. I think when we take our eyes and focus off Christ then all kinds of trouble creep in.

[mightynancy]

In your shoes, I'd freely share my testimony (keeping in mind what a testimony is and is not), and perhaps invite someone over for family home evening or something like that. Build relationships on common ground. I can tell you crave fellowship with the saints...which will require flexibility and thick skin on your part.

You "sound" well-spoken; if the conversations turn to politics, I'm sure you can steer them to neutral ground. Reasonable and loving people will be willing to skip political debate. You'll have to be willing to do that, too.

I have just one intimate friend who's LDS. She and I don't see eye-to-eye politically, and I'm certain she secretly worries about my salvation , but we are much more likely to talk and laugh about the stuff we DO have in common.

That said, I am guilty of wearing my "LDS for Obama" pin on my purse strap. To church. Just to watch eyebrows shoot up. For fun. Hang in there - there are plenty of LDS progressives. Most of them are simply in the closet.

[talisyn]

I don't recall the church saying anything about prop 102..Prop 8 yes, but 102? Sorry.

It's hard to be different. Remember high school? Or maybe you were the popular one so you wouldn't know lol. The thing about church is we expect people to be more because we know we should be more. Some people just aren't at that point of spirituality yet, so we must make allowances. I'm a Democrat in very conservative S. Idaho, yet I have never heard a political discussion in church or at church activities. I recommend telling your bishop the political overtones of church is wreaking havok on your testimony and hopefully he'll take steps to stop it.

[LDSVALLEY]

I'm a member of the church who was born into the church but in the last year or so I've found that I really don't socially fit in with the other members of my wards. I've lived in 3 different wards in the last 4 years and in all of them I have very little outside of the church in common with the ward members.

I find that my wife and I are very progressive thinkers and we have pretty much been shunned for it. We still follow all of the standards of the church but like I said we just don't fit in. We have different political views and different social views that cause the members of our wards to turn away from us. Like I said before these views are not going against the teachings of the gospel but they sure don't line up with the social standard of our wards.

Having said all of this I'm not sure what to do, I want to still go to church but I'm finding it harder and harder when I have nothing in common with my ward members outside of our Sunday meetings.

Any advice would be welcome.

Thanks,

Move to Kentville Nova Scotia, Our Ward boundary would take you 2 hours or so to drive around it. It is a long distance call from my end to the other end of the ward.

I don't know most of the political views of the members, we never have time to discuss it. Just getting to the chapel to do something takes 30min. I need 4 hours to home teach 3 families, my companion is 30min away as are our families.

We are a very diverse group with young families to grand parents. Well off to dirt poor. Very active to inactive. College education to less then high school. I sometimes feel our family doesn't fit in with the Ward but when I think on it I realize that most members probably feel the same way!

So come to our Ward where none of us fit in but somehow it works for us.

[Musicme]

Yeah, I know that but my ward did. And Prop 8 and 102 are pretty much the same thing.