Kneeling in the Celestial Room

[Moksha]

Hey I am much stronger now at 55 than I have been most of my life. Would challenge most to a leg press contest. I am currently pressing 1,000 pounds. I think that is 2,200 kilos, sounds more impressive. :)

Ben (The Old Man) Raines

I understand cheddar ages pretty well too.

So what is the policy on squats in the Celestial room.

:)

[Hemidakota]

Does anyone here know the rationale behind not being allowed to kneel in the Celestial Room? It seems very strange to me. After all, if the CR is where we are supposed to be closest to the presence of the Lord, what place could possibly be more appropriate to kneel?

HEP

There is no church policy but why would you want to kneel in the presence of the Godhead? Perhaps a hug would be more appropriate...

[HEthePrimate]

There is no church policy but why would you want to kneel in the presence of the Godhead? Perhaps a hug would be more appropriate...

Probably for the same reason Joseph Smith, Bruce R. McConkie, and anybody else would kneel in the presence of God. The Church has taught me all my life about the importance of kneeling in prayer, from Primary to Sunday School to General Conference.

I don't know if there's a Churchwide policy, but in our local temple it is the official policy, and I've heard of it happening in other temples.

HEP

[Traveler]

Does anyone here know the rationale behind not being allowed to kneel in the Celestial Room? It seems very strange to me. After all, if the CR is where we are supposed to be closest to the presence of the Lord, what place could possibly be more appropriate to kneel?

HEP

The "true order of prayer" for the temple is not done kneeling in the Celestial Room. If you are not sure what is "more" appropriate I suggest you listen more carefully the next time you attend a temple session.

The Traveler

[TheAngelPalmoni]

Fire Hazard

[TheAngelPalmoni]

Of course you could just pretend to sprain your ankle and then take some knee time and then be healed and walk away.

[HEthePrimate]

The "true order of prayer" for the temple is not done kneeling in the Celestial Room. If you are not sure what is "more" appropriate I suggest you listen more carefully the next time you attend a temple session.

I hope God will forgive me for engaging in a "false order of prayer" tonight before I go to bed...

HEP

[Vort]

Vort,

Are you actually making fun of people praying in the Celestial Room? I mean, "Faces scrunched up in prayer" and "rows of rear ends" sounds like some kind of parody.

Then you have grossly misunderstood me.

How on earth can humble, reverent prayer possibly be construed as changing the temple's ambiance to "something other than what it should be"? You're making it sound as though prayer is downright inappropriate.

I suspect that, in most cases, kneeling to pray in the celestial room is inappropriate. We kneel as a sign of humility and respect before God, and when we kneel, it is usually in private, as a couple, or in a small group (e.g. a family or quorum). Kneeling in the celestial room does not strike me as keeping in harmony with the spirit of kneeling prayer.

Of course, a given individual might be oblivious to this distinction and thus kneel to pray in the celestial room. I would never suggest that the act is innately wrong. But I do think it is probably inappropriate. Apparently, given that some have suggested that temples actually ask people to stand if more than one or two kneel in prayer, I am not the only one.

[Avrham]

yes I once kneeled in prayer and was told that the garments are not allowed to touch the ground

[Vort]

There is a health club near where I live. It is the Rolls Royce of health clubs, and most especially in the locker rooms. The men's locker room features:

• Dual-level architecture
• Two flat-panel TV sets with leather couches and footrests all around
• Dry sauna
• Steam room
• Four (!) large, beautiful hot tubs
• Decor and artwork fitting for (and slightly reminiscent of) a Roman temple
• Oh, and lots and lots and lots of showers, sinks, mirrors, and other restroom facilities

Seriously, you could go into the locker room and lounge around all day. Some do.

The funny thing is, of course, that the real work that makes you healthy gets done outside the locker room. That's where you sweat and groan, hurt and push, and force yourself to do the things that make you a better athlete. The locker room is really just a very posh, comfortable way to wash yourself clean after the workout. Important for good health? Well, yes, but it doesn't replace the weight machines, elliptical trainers, basketball courts, and so forth.

I think that, in a way, temples are similar. They are a beautiful place of repose, where we can commune with the Spirit in a way difficult in other places, where we can slough off the world and for a few moments get a small sampling of the divine. But the real work goes on at work, at Church, and especially at home. That's where the the benefit is realized. Like the shower after the workout, the temple is important for our spiritual health, but I don't think it's designed as the primary element in our journey. (Having said that, I suspect that almost all of us could stand to shower a lot more than we do...)

Just as you would not expect someone to come in the locker room and start doing pushups or working the heavy bag, I think there are activities which, though perfectly acceptable and even righteous in and of themselves, are perhaps out of place in many areas of the temple -- especially in the celestial room. Kneeling in personal prayer strikes me as one of those.

[Wingnut]

(Having said that, I suspect that almost all of us could stand to shower a lot more than we do...)

/me sniffs armpits...

[Moksha]

There is a health club near where I live. It is the Rolls Royce of health clubs, and most especially in the locker rooms. The men's locker room features:

• Dual-level architecture
• Two flat-panel TV sets with leather couches and footrests all around
• Dry sauna
• Steam room
• Four (!) large, beautiful hot tubs
• Decor and artwork fitting for (and slightly reminiscent of) a Roman temple
• Oh, and lots and lots and lots of showers, sinks, mirrors, and other restroom facilities

You are making me nostalgic for the Deseret Gym.

[Gwen]

yes I once kneeled in prayer and was told that the garments are not allowed to touch the ground

what?!? lol

[Traveler]

I hope God will forgive me for engaging in a "false order of prayer" tonight before I go to bed...

HEP

I honestly attempted to help you understand something about the temple. Forgive me for not understanding better - I shall not make such a mistake again.

The Traveler

[Guest Believer_1829]

I am flabbergasted...

Isn't the Celestial Room supposed to be the closest thing to the Celestial Kingdom on the earth, and it's inappropriate to kneel and offer prayers to God??

[ztodd]

I am flabbergasted...

Isn't the Celestial Room supposed to be the closest thing to the Celestial Kingdom on the earth, and it's inappropriate to kneel and offer prayers to God??

Perhaps there is even symbolism in that- when we reach our final destination in the Celestial Kingdom, then maybe there will no longer be a need for kneeling in prayer.

[Moksha]

Perhaps the purpose of the Celestial room could be achieved by any posture that would put you into a contrite, joyous, peaceful, prayerful or contemplative mood in which you can reflect upon God's glory and creation.

[Traveler]

Perhaps there is even symbolism in that- when we reach our final destination in the Celestial Kingdom, then maybe there will no longer be a need for kneeling in prayer.

I believe you are wise to explorer symbolism, as there is a time and a place to make our petitions and speak (pray) to G-d. Likewise there is a time and a place to be still and listen.

The Traveler

[Vort]

I am flabbergasted...

Isn't the Celestial Room supposed to be the closest thing to the Celestial Kingdom on the earth

Of course not. Where did you get such an idea?

Our homes should be the closest thing to the celestial kingdom. Indeed, our homes should in effect be a celestial kingdom. The celestial room is merely a room, albeit one that represents the concept of the celestial kingdom. The model is that we go to the temple, symbolically enter the celestial kingdom, ponder on that ideal, then go home and get busy making the celestial kingdom.

[Guest Believer_1829]

Telling people how they can pray strikes me as a bit much. Whatever... I'm over this topic.

[Vort]

Not to worry. It's entirely appropriate to kneel in prayer at home.

[Guest missingsomething]

to me I think

1) It could be disruptive to others people getting up and down

2) Have you tried to kneel in those long dresses!?!?! Not easy!

3) People could trip - I mean? Where you would put the kneelers so their legs/feet are outta the way?

Kneeling to me is very personal....its away of reminding us of what we are doing and centering our minds on our prayers and showing respect and humbling ourselves before Heavenly Father. Inside the CR - we are already doing these things.

Just my opinions.

[Guest missingsomething]

Of course not. Where did you get such an idea?

Our homes should be the closest thing to the celestial kingdom. Indeed, our homes should in effect be a celestial kingdom. The celestial room is merely a room, albeit one that represents the concept of the celestial kingdom. The model is that we go to the temple, symbolically enter the celestial kingdom, ponder on that ideal, then go home and get busy making the celestial kingdom.

Vort... should be and IS are two different things. I was told by a temple president this - "satan can not penetrate the walls of the temple"

But if one has truly experienced the spirit of the temple and the Celestial room peace, beauty and holy spirit.... then they realize this is the way it supposed to be.

Finally, a friend mentioned... kneeling is something that is VERY personal - as we do not kneel in sacrament, when we are out to eat, etc...

[Guest missingsomething]

EEEEKKKKKKK I just noticed my last post was 666 yikes... so I have to post again to be 667

[Moksha]

Has anybody mentiioned how hard kneeling is on middle aged and old knees? It would be uncomfortable for a good meditation or chat.