Isn’t everybody welcome in the church?

[tubaloth]

Whats wrong with Marvelous work and a wonder?

So I was in the LDS distribution store (yes in Utah we have stores of these), and looking through it I noticed the Missionary Set that each missionary buys for their mission looked different. Not only had it been kind of redone (newer cover) it had a new book in it, Our Heritage. Which I thought was okay. Then I noticed Marvelous Work and Wonder wasn’t part of it anymore.

Does anybody know why they took this book out? This book is really all about trying to teach people (mostly from the bible) about the Restored Gospel? When I went on my mission the most I read the bible was seminary, it wasn’t until I read MW and W did I realize how much the Bible and the Book of Mormon go together.

Not sure why they took it out? Our Heritage is a good book, came out when I was on my mission, but its kind of the same as True Restored. So its kind of duplicated. I would say Our Heritage is more complete then True Restored.

Are missionaries missing something by not reading Marvelous work and a wonder?

[HEthePrimate]

That's a good question. Back when I served my mission, there was so "Missionary Set" that all missionaries had to buy. There was a short list of recommended/permitted books, and A Marvelous Work and a Wonder was on the list. Don't know why it wouldn't be now--maybe it's not considered essential for whatever reason? In any case, I imagine a missionary could still buy a copy of MWW and take it with her on her mission, in addition to the "Missionary Set."

Shalom,

HEP

[Just_A_Guy]

The set has also, IIRC, nearly tripled in price.

It seems to me that Elder Richards had some rather impolitic things to say about other religions. That may be one reason for the book's withdrawal from the "approved list".

[rameumptom]

Some of the books were replaced with newer, more up-to-date books. We also no longer widely use Talmage's books, either. And the day has come when many members no longer use Mormon Doctrine as much, because there are newer and better reference books available.

[Justice]

Thinking this over, I wonder if MW&W was actually removed from the approved list, or if it was just replaced in the set you can purchase?

I enjoyed MW&W.

[Snow]

Whats wrong with Marvelous work and a wonder?

And what, exactly, does Marvelous Work and a Wonder have to do with everybody not being welcome in church?

[pam]

And what, exactly, does Marvelous Work and a Wonder have to do with everybody not being welcome in church?

That was just my question as well when I started reading the OP. I don't see the relationship here.

[Mahone]

And what, exactly, does Marvelous Work and a Wonder have to do with everybody not being welcome in church?

I wondered this too. I was trying to figure out how the thread title could even possible relate to the OP, but came out empty handed.

[rayhale]

On my mission there was the regular ‘Missionary set’ and a few more approved books, so Marvelous Work and a Wonder may still be okay to read on a mission, but as a few people have said, Marvelous Work and a Wonder and other books in the Missionary set are old and use old language, so I don’t see any problem using new books that ‘cull’ the old books for great information, and put it in a language that we can understand better.

[Justice]

...I don’t see any problem using new books that ‘cull’ the old books for great information, and put it in a language that we can understand better.

I understand what you're saying. But, I also really like the old school stuff.

As long as we don't move too far away. :)

[utcowboy]

I understand what you're saying. But, I also really like the old school stuff.

As long as we don't move too far away. :)

Just to throw in my two cents....

Isn't your above statement akin to saying "we have the Bible we don't need any more scripture"? It would seem to me with modern Prophets that we, as a church, should be moving forward continually. That would mean that we get more or better worded doctrine to teach, right?

[NeuroTypical]

I didn't go on a mission, so forgive me if this is a dumb question. Are you people saying if a certain book has dropped off this list thingy, does that mean you're not allowed to read it?

(I already know the answer, but the only other way I know how to ask this question is "If I were a missionary, what the heck would I care about some 'missionary training set'", and I'm trying to be less contentious...)

LM

[BenRaines]

There is a list of approved reading for missionaries while in the mission field. Often it changes in each mission. There are books that are not for reading while on a mission.

Ben Raines

[Justice]

Just to throw in my two cents....

Isn't your above statement akin to saying "we have the Bible we don't need any more scripture"? It would seem to me with modern Prophets that we, as a church, should be moving forward continually. That would mean that we get more or better worded doctrine to teach, right?

I hope not. I'll try to give an example.

The Book of Mormon teaches the same message as the Bible.

A Bible translated from the KJV into newer and more modern language doesn't appeal to me.

I'm all for simplifying truths, just not at the expense of the original message.

[Maureen]

...A Bible translated from the KJV into newer and more modern language doesn't appeal to me.

I'm all for simplifying truths, just not at the expense of the original message.

For one thing the KJV is not the original message; the original manuscripts would be the original message. And newer translations are not translated from the KJV they are translated from the existing hebrew and greek manuscripts.

M.

[rayhale]

On occasion the Ensign will have articles from the past, besides standardizing spelling they are exactly the same. With the new Joseph Smith Papers volumes they are exactly the same, even the crossing out of words, the editors just added some background, and what happened afterward, with other sources that are available. I’m not saying to discard these old books, but if these new books can make what the old books said better understood, then I’m all for it.

[bytebear]

I think at different times, different teaching methods are emphasized. It also varies from mission to mission. My mission material had only the scriptures and the standard 6 discussions as required material. Other books were recommended, but not required. But my mission president emphasized a more spiritual teaching method, so you followed the six discussions, but only as a guide and not as a formal word for word lesson. I am sure other mission presidents had more strict rules. We seemed to be far more "on our own" when I compare my mission with others.

[JohnnyRudick]

For one thing the KJV is not the original message; the original manuscripts would be the original message. And newer translations are not translated from the KJV they are translated from the existing hebrew and greek manuscripts.

M.

Actually I believe there to be several dozen so-called existing Greek manuscripts and for most of the new perversions they pick and choose what they feel is the most reasonable translation. (or what they want the outcome to be)

At least the King James Bible was an amalgamation of translations by actual Bible Believers.

Bro. Rudick

[JohnnyRudick]

On my mission there was the regular ‘Missionary set’ and a few more approved books, so Marvelous Work and a Wonder may still be okay to read on a mission, but as a few people have said, Marvelous Work and a Wonder and other books in the Missionary set are old and use old language, so I don’t see any problem using new books that ‘cull’ the old books for great information, and put it in a language that we can understand better.

Could I translate the above to say Talmage and Richards wrote at the 12th grade and the new books are written at the 8th grade level?

Bro. Rudick

[Justice]

For one thing the KJV is not the original message; the original manuscripts would be the original message. And newer translations are not translated from the KJV they are translated from the existing hebrew and greek manuscripts.

M.

It is the original message in English. I agree it is not perfect. I wish I had and could understand the original manuscripts. In actuality, we can learn truths from any of the Bible translations. I was only stating my preference.

Not all newer translations go back to older documents. There are some translated right from the KJV, just using more modern language. I didn't mean to imply all newer translations were (but it appeared I did). A friend had one taken from the KJV the other day and I couldn't make heads or tails of it.

[rayhale]

Could I translate the above to say Talmage and Richards wrote at the 12th grade and the new books are written at the 8th grade level?

Bro. Rudick

Yes, for example, I’ve heard that newspapers are written at a 5th grade level. I live in Idaho, near a nuclear processing place, and at the local museum it has a cartoon of nuclear technology that even a child can understand. But as I said, these new books shouldn’t outright replace the old books, but be like ‘cliff-notes’, where they put these college level teachings and put them in an 8th,or even lower, level.

[JohnnyRudick]

Yes, for example, I’ve heard that newspapers are written at a 5th grade level. I live in Idaho, near a nuclear processing place, and at the local museum it has a cartoon of nuclear technology that even a child can understand. But as I said, these new books shouldn’t outright replace the old books, but be like ‘cliff-notes’, where they put these college level teachings and put them in an 8th,or even lower, level.

"8th grade"

Trying to be charitable here.

Bro. Rudick

[RipplecutBuddha]

I read Jesus The Christ and The Articles of Faith (both by Talmage) at least a dozen times during my mission. I love those books to this very day.

Having said that, here's my two cents on updating...The Standard Works are the foundational writings of the Church. Everything else is commentary based upon what is found in them. No matter what volume you should choose to read, chances are you're gonna learn something about the gospel you just hadn't thought of yet. As such I feel that all the LDS writings have essential value to the average member, but there does need to be a progression of delivery. AMWAW is still a very very good book, however there is much in it that is impolitic, as stated earlier, and areas of it can reflect an attitude no longer part of the church culture today.

For example, much of Brigham Young's statements were heavily anti-Catholic, as well as several other general authoritites of that day. Does that mean the truths they taught have changed? Not at all, but the tenor of the message reflected a very defensive position that the LDS Church did have at the time, which no longer exists today. As members of the LDS Church are encouraged to do their own thinking, and never become blind sheep when it comes to living the gospel, we should do the same with our reading of church-related material.

Keep AMWAW as long as you find it valuable, but don't exclude other, newer volumes for its sake. It's just a book, not scripture.

[Hemidakota]

The mission office of the church has a basic list of what a missionary [selected and approved by the First Presidency] can read while on their missions. But each Mission Area President is allowed to add any appropriate reading material.

[tubaloth]

The set has also, IIRC, nearly tripled in price.

It seems to me that Elder Richards had some rather impolitic things to say about other religions. That may be one reason for the book's withdrawal from the "approved list".

Tripled in price? Its $15 at Deseret book?

I do kind of see the tone of the book might not be good for non members in some ways. So I can see its not being high on the list of books to recommend for a new member of the church. But for missionary work, and teaching 19/21 year olds in a way how missionary work use to be done (back in the day), I don't think you can find a better book. Even more I don't know of any other book that kind of ties the Gospel all together (with scriptures) as well as MWaW does.

Edited September 3, 2009 by tubaloth