Lilac Posted September 6, 2009 Report Share Posted September 6, 2009 whether or not I accept the Book of Mormon as another Testament of Jesus Christ. My husband and I are practicing Protestants and live a Christian life. We love God. We believe Jesus is the Savior. Etc. For us, I think that is what it all comes down to: Was Joseph Smith a Prophet? Is the Book of Mormon true? Trying ot figure out theology and this and that...it just comes down to Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon. What do you think? Did I miss something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted September 6, 2009 Report Share Posted September 6, 2009 It's the foundation of our religion. If you believe those..so much more just falls into place. Besides believing in Christ of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxel Posted September 6, 2009 Report Share Posted September 6, 2009 Lilac, you hit it the nail on the head. Everything boils down the the veracity of the Book of Mormon and Joseph Smith's calling as a prophet. The Book of Mormon is the keystone of the LDS religion- the entire religion is only as valid and strong as the Book of Mormon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefche Posted September 6, 2009 Report Share Posted September 6, 2009 For us, I think that is what it all comes down to: Was Joseph Smith a Prophet? Is the Book of Mormon true? Trying ot figure out theology and this and that...it just comes down to Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon.What do you think? Did I miss something?Nope, you hit it on the head. If Joseph Smith is who he said he was--a true prophet of God--then the Book of Mormon is scripture, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is the Lord's church, and Thomas Monson is the prophet today. It all hinges on Joseph. Did he really see what he says he saw? Did he really talk with God? Did God command him to do the things he said the Lord did? If you can answer those questions in the affirmative, then you have an obligation to be baptized. Until then, you should not be baptized. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted September 6, 2009 Report Share Posted September 6, 2009 Lilac I wish more would come to that realization. It would make it so much easier..either you can choose to believe it or not. So I thank you for putting it in such a simplistic manner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilac Posted September 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2009 My husband and I were talking about it today. The missionaries have been teaching us some good stuff and I enjoy learning new things. I've been trying to reason this out in my head, the typical questions that people have about the LDS. It hit me today...I said "Mr. Husband, it all comes down to Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon" Trying to study up on the theology is good, of course, and will help me to understand what Joseph Smith taught and why... But it's all about whether Joseph Smith was a Prophet or not. If he saw what he claims to have seen and found what he claims to have found, the rest of the puzzle pieces will fall into place easily. Ok, I will be back when I have an answer! (I might ask some more questions in the meantime) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted September 6, 2009 Report Share Posted September 6, 2009 You are awesome Lilac. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefche Posted September 6, 2009 Report Share Posted September 6, 2009 For me, once I received an answer about Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon, I never felt the need to question the other stuff the church teaches. I may not understand all the doctrine and some of it may not sit quite right with me, but my testimony of Joseph and the Book of Mormon helps me to have faith in those areas. Each person's experience with the Holy Spirit can be different (because people are different and He will respond to you in the way you need it). I can say that for me, I was baptized on a very simple testimony--it just felt right to me. It wasn't until about 6 years afterwards that I really prayed about it and received an answer. That answer, for me, was very powerful and it was unmistakable. For the 1st 6 years of my church experience after baptism, I just saw that nothing in the church was "bad", so I stayed with it. I matured and began questioning some things which made me want to know more than what I had been working with. My prayers had nothing to do with doctrine, per se. My prayers at that time were solely about Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon. That is when I received my undeniable answer. I wish you the best on your journey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jadams_4040 Posted September 6, 2009 Report Share Posted September 6, 2009 whether or not I accept the Book of Mormon as another Testament of Jesus Christ.My husband and I are practicing Protestants and live a Christian life. We love God. We believe Jesus is the Savior. Etc. For us, I think that is what it all comes down to: Was Joseph Smith a Prophet? Is the Book of Mormon true? Trying ot figure out theology and this and that...it just comes down to Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon.What do you think? Did I miss something? Once one receives a spiritrual confirmation of something l.d.s; wheather it be b.o.m or something else; that is when the beauty of everything will guide desires and cause you to seek out more and more and more; as its better than anything you have ever experianced {legal or illegal}. the blessings continue to increase forever as your faith and knowledge increases. blessings many will come into your life of both temporal and spiritual knowledge that comforts, gives inner peace and a perfect understanding of all things. If you are feeling an urge or need to question further of this gospel; then please do it!!!!! wheather it be reading scripture or anything else yu may desire to investigate. If you ask of heavenly father with complete sincerity; {with the honesty of a little child} he will give yu guidance as to what yu need too do.:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dove Posted September 6, 2009 Report Share Posted September 6, 2009 Hello, Lilac, Best of wishes in your search for truth. One thing that has been pivotal in my remaining LDS is the close relationship I feel with God through the Holy Ghost....... I'm not so concerned whether the Book of Mormon (or even Bible) is true as I am that I understand if the concepts it is teaching are true and if God then wants me to follow those concepts.... The reason why I say this is that so much of the Book of Mormon, and Bible, can be contended against and repudiated by anyone interested in doing so. I'm trying to communicate that so much of religion comes down to faith and the confirmation of the Holy Spirit. True faith cannot be proved (or disproved, really) by science or reasoning. I am LDS because I am convinced the covenants I entered into at baptism are real and binding through the authority of the priesthood. That God does hold me to them...acknowledge them....and blesses me according to my faith in keeping them. I feel the Spirit strongly through the principals of the LDS faith. It feels complete to me and makes sense~ I also have had many witnesses as to the power of God working through the priesthood authority. Through all this, I am so glad to be LDS, even though I've had many trials through my association with this church. I believe through those trials God is refining and purfying me.... Hope this helps, again best of wishes..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snow Posted September 6, 2009 Report Share Posted September 6, 2009 whether or not I accept the Book of Mormon as another Testament of Jesus Christ.My husband and I are practicing Protestants and live a Christian life. We love God. We believe Jesus is the Savior. Etc. For us, I think that is what it all comes down to: Was Joseph Smith a Prophet? Is the Book of Mormon true? Trying ot figure out theology and this and that...it just comes down to Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon.What do you think? Did I miss something?Yeah - probably.Do you also extend that logic to the Bible - that the truth of Judeo-Christianity comes down to Isaiah or the author of the Gospels? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted September 6, 2009 Report Share Posted September 6, 2009 Now Snow..let's not turn this into a debate over logic of the Bible as well. The OP asked a very simple question. I understand what you are saying..but remember this is someone investigating. Line upon line...... I happen to agree with her logic as far as Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted September 6, 2009 Report Share Posted September 6, 2009 whether or not I accept the Book of Mormon as another Testament of Jesus Christ.My husband and I are practicing Protestants and live a Christian life. We love God. We believe Jesus is the Savior. Etc. For us, I think that is what it all comes down to: Was Joseph Smith a Prophet? Is the Book of Mormon true? Trying ot figure out theology and this and that...it just comes down to Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon.What do you think? Did I miss something?No, you didn't miss anything. I think you got it just right.Once you know the Book of Mormon is true, you will know Joseph Smith was a prophet.It all grows from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEthePrimate Posted September 6, 2009 Report Share Posted September 6, 2009 whether or not I accept the Book of Mormon as another Testament of Jesus Christ.My husband and I are practicing Protestants and live a Christian life. We love God. We believe Jesus is the Savior. Etc. For us, I think that is what it all comes down to: Was Joseph Smith a Prophet? Is the Book of Mormon true? Trying ot figure out theology and this and that...it just comes down to Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon.What do you think? Did I miss something?Lilac,Your words echo those of late President Ezra Taft Benson, who encouraged people to read the Book of Mormon more. Jesus is the foundation of our religion, and the Book of Mormon serves as another testament of Jesus in addition to the Bible's New Testament. Anything that gives one a greater understanding of Jesus Christ is worth looking at.:)HEP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanh Posted September 6, 2009 Report Share Posted September 6, 2009 For us, I think that is what it all comes down to: Was Joseph Smith a Prophet? Is the Book of Mormon true? Trying ot figure out theology and this and that...it just comes down to Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon.Yep! Very good deduction of a multifaceted consideration. When I joined the church, it was because I learned the Book of Mormon (BoM) to be true scripture. That conviction that the BoM was true scripture lead me to understand that Joseph Smith (JS) must have been a true prophet and had the vision he said he had. That was sufficient for the time being until I could also gain a testimony that JS was a prophet. Logic and reason appear to have taken you about as far as they can. Our understanding of the truth of the BoM or of JS's calling cannot come by logic. It is time to seek divine guidance as to the truth of these foundational assertions of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I suppose the missionaries have walked you through James 1:5 and Moroni 10:3-5 regarding obtaining an answer to your queries whether or not the BoM and/or JS are true. If not, ask them to do so. It may take time and significant effort to get an answer from our Heavenly Father, but it IS possible.James 1:55 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.Moroni 10:3-53 Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and ponder it in your hearts. 4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost. 5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferretrunner Posted September 6, 2009 Report Share Posted September 6, 2009 You're spot on. Enjoy the missionary lessons and ask all the questions you want. If you don't receive an answer right away, keep studying and praying. It takes more time for some folks than for others. Take care and best wishes for your journey! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bytebear Posted September 6, 2009 Report Share Posted September 6, 2009 Yeah - probably.Do you also extend that logic to the Bible - that the truth of Judeo-Christianity comes down to Isaiah or the author of the Gospels?You know what's funny? It extends to the Bible. If the Book of Mormon is true, then the Bible is true, and Jesus really is the Christ, and he did really die for our sins. Most converts already have that testimony, but I do think it grows and strengthens with a testimony from a second witness of Christ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted September 6, 2009 Report Share Posted September 6, 2009 You're spot on. Enjoy the missionary lessons and ask all the questions you want. If you don't receive an answer right away, keep studying and praying. It takes more time for some folks than for others. Take care and best wishes for your journey! And that's the awesome part. There is no set time frame or limit. For some it's instant and others it can sometimes take years. And that's okay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snow Posted September 6, 2009 Report Share Posted September 6, 2009 Now Snow..let's not turn this into a debate over logic of the Bible as well. The OP asked a very simple question. I understand what you are saying..but remember this is someone investigating. Line upon line......I happen to agree with her logic as far as Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon.It's not a debate about the Bible - at least not yet. The question is about whether or not one is consistent in their application of criteria and standards... in this case, the validity of the Church of Jesus Christ is placed upon the validity of scripture and prophethood. That prompts the issue whether one has the same criteria for non-LDS Christianity, namely prophets and scripture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snow Posted September 6, 2009 Report Share Posted September 6, 2009 You know what's funny? It extends to the Bible. If the Book of Mormon is true, then the Bible is true, and Jesus really is the Christ, and he did really die for our sins. Most converts already have that testimony, but I do think it grows and strengthens with a testimony from a second witness of Christ.There is nothing, outside of dogmatic opinion that, if one set of scriptures (eg The Book of Mormon), that other scriptures are also true. Just as there is no reason why the Book of Job has to be true just because 1 Corinthians is true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prisonchaplain Posted September 6, 2009 Report Share Posted September 6, 2009 whether or not I accept the Book of Mormon as another Testament of Jesus Christ.My husband and I are practicing Protestants and live a Christian life. We love God. We believe Jesus is the Savior. Etc. For us, I think that is what it all comes down to: Was Joseph Smith a Prophet? Is the Book of Mormon true? Trying ot figure out theology and this and that...it just comes down to Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon.What do you think? Did I miss something? That's looking at it straight on, I suppose. On the other hand, how do you get there, conclusively? For example, Joseph Smith taught a theology that is probably signficantly different from that which your current church does. So, in discerning whether he was a prophet or not, it might help to consider:1. Did you exist prior to the creation of our physical world?2. Did the Christian church at large fall into an era of apostasy for centuries, and lose it's authority to act in Jesus' name?3. Does salvation (living eternally with God the Father) only become certain at the end of life, when He will determine if we did "all that we could?"These are but three teachings that may draw you to or away from belief that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prisonchaplain Posted September 6, 2009 Report Share Posted September 6, 2009 Now Snow..let's not turn this into a debate over logic of the Bible as well. The OP asked a very simple question. I understand what you are saying..but remember this is someone investigating. Line upon line......I happen to agree with her logic as far as Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon. But maybe Snow's right? I mean, if Isaiah was a fake, and his prophecies were bogus, Judaism would suffer, and Christianity might not recover. Likewise, if Jesus did not get rightly described in the Gospels, then I'd be torn between Judaism and Islam. Not sure how far I would take this line of reasoning, but there is some logic to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted September 6, 2009 Report Share Posted September 6, 2009 I never said Snow's logic didn't have merit. I was going with the logic of the OP which I will say again..I agree with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prisonchaplain Posted September 6, 2009 Report Share Posted September 6, 2009 Pam, from my perspective, Snow may actually be validating the OP's logic. If Joseph Smith was a prophet, then the BoM and the Church are likely true. And, vice versa. Likewise with Isaiah and the Gospels of the New Testament and Christianity in general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted September 6, 2009 Report Share Posted September 6, 2009 (edited) PC I also understand that. Okay let me just cut to the chase here...I was more concerned in how Snow's comment would be perceived than in any disagreement over it. I have no disagreement over Snow's comment. But knowing the history lately and some peoples perception of Snow's intentions..I wanted to keep the thread as simplistic as possible and concentrate on the logic mentioned in the OP. To let the OP work through their own thought process for the time being. Since this person is investigating. Edited September 6, 2009 by pam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.