Amulek had multiple wives...most likely?

[Over43]

In Alma, chapter 11 Amulek speaks to the people of Ammonihah and introduces

Alma to the people of that city. In the course of his opening remarks he states that the people of the city know him (as well), his wealth, standing, his father, women and children.

I have been reading the Book of Mormon for 25+ years and that is the first time that that item has come to my attention.

Now I just hope it was chapter 11 v. 10, and not Chapter 10 v. 11.

By the way, where did Fall go? It went summer to winter in about...a day.

O.

[pam]

It's Chapter 10 and I'm not sure where the thought of multiple wives comes from. Amulek states he has many kindreds and friends. There is no mention of women and children.

[Over43]

It's Chapter 10 and I'm not sure where the thought of multiple wives comes from. Amulek states he has many kindreds and friends. There is no mention of women and children.

Chapter 10 verse 11: For behold, he hath blessed mine house, he hath blessed me, and my women, and my children and my father and my kin folk...

That's where the thought of mutliple wives come from. His women would probably be differentiated from any of his daughters (chbildren) or mother (who would be married to his father...In fact, not having mentioned his mother, it might be the case that she had passed away? Maybe not...)

I was almsot right initially, just got my chapters and versus mixed up.

Edited October 11, 2009 by Over43

[pam]

Ahhhh I didn't read far enough down. I just read the first few verses of Chapter 10. I see where your thoughts are..but could women not also mean mother, sisters, aunts? It could just be a collective term of the women in his household not necessarily wives.

Edited October 11, 2009 by pam

[Vort]

Chapter 10 verse 11: For behold, he hath blessed mine house, he hath blessed me, and my women, and my children and my father and my kin folk...

That's where the thought of mutliple wives come from. His women would probably be differentiated from any of his daughters (chbildren) or mother (who would be married to his father...In fact, not having mentioned his mother, it might be the case that she had passed away? Maybe not...)

I was almsot right initially, just got my chapters and versus mixed up.

I think this is a misreading of the verse. "My women" simply refers to all adult women in his household, probably including adult daughters and definitely including any mother, mother-in-law, sisters, or other adult women living in his household that were considered family and not servants.

There is no indication that polygamy was ever approved in the history of the Nephite peoples, while there is absolute proof that it was condemned. So in my mind, it is very highly unlikely that Amulek, a righteous man and a tool of the Lord, would have participated in such an arrangement.

[Misshalfway]

I don't see multiple wives here at all.

[FlyingPurpleMonkey]

Now it's time for the rest of the story...

If Amulek was a polyganist and took these wives, he did so while in rebellion to his calling and before he met Alma.

What happens to Amulek in the end?

When he gets righteous and obedient to the Lord his entire family rejects and abandons him and he is forced to move in with Alma.

So if this topic was an attempt to justify the practice because of slight chance that Amulek practiced it at some time..... Uber Fail.

[pam]

I don't think this thread was an attempt to justify it at all. I believe the OP was just asking for clarification on what was written.

[Dove]

I appreciate this point/question being brought up.

I have a sweet joy and respect for Amulek in this story. This verse has also lead me to wonder if he had more than one wife. I think that perhaps the customs of their day would need to be studied to ascertain whether the possesive term "my women" meant "wives" or any adult female in his household.....

Regardless, it seems to me that upon Alma's staying/teacing at his house, he went through a change of heart and turned towards God, much like Alma did through his repentance process.....Alma 10, verses 5-6 states that he knew of God's ways, but "would not know."

It's amazing to me the sacrifice Amulek made in turning to do God's will for him....There are those verses where the "women and children" were burned for accepting Alma and Amulek's message. Amulek saw their pains in the fire and wanted to stop them from burning to their deaths....Alma was constrained to not do this by the Holy Spirit, saying the women and children burning would be received up to glory and that this was done so that a righteous judgement could be made upon those who burned them......

If you notice, it doesn't mention Amulek's "women and children" as being amongst those who rejected his message, "his kindred, friends and father." (Alma 15:16). I can't help but wonder/believe that Amulek's women and children were among those who Amulek witnessed burning to death as a result of embracing his message.....

My heart goes out to Amulek......In Alma 15:18, it speaks of how Alma took Amulek to his own house to minister to him......Amulek gave up everything to follow the Lord. It's incredible to read of his sacrifice. Not only did he give everything up, he saw his women and children burn to death as a result of accepting his message....This blows my mind.

By the way, Vort, as I'm sure you probably know, while polygamy was never approved in the history of the Nephit nation, it was practiced at times by the wicked parts of them. Amulek admits to not following God for most of his life in Alma 10:4-5. I think he could have been practicing polygamy before he repented......

[sixpacktr]

Not to hijack the thread, but I love Amulek. He obviously had a background in the gospel because after a short time with Alma he is able to bear powerful testimony, so much so that he confounds Zeezrom (who, after repenting, was another great one).

My favorite line by Amulek, which I believe speaks to our souls to some degree, is when he says "I KNEW but I would not KNOW".

As the Nephites were, in reality, transplanted Israelites, it is POSSIBLE they are talking of multiple wives, but couldn't it be more likely that Amulek was instead responsible for not only his wife and children, but also his mother, aunts, cousins, etc, since he was well known and probably well off. And, if he was the first born (since we're speculating here) the head of the family would have fallen to him, which may be another reason for saying 'women' instead of 'woman' or 'wife'.

[Hemidakota]

In Alma, chapter 11 Amulek speaks to the people of Ammonihah and introduces

Alma to the people of that city. In the course of his opening remarks he states that the people of the city know him (as well), his wealth, standing, his father, women and children.

I have been reading the Book of Mormon for 25+ years and that is the first time that that item has come to my attention.

Now I just hope it was chapter 11 v. 10, and not Chapter 10 v. 11.

By the way, where did Fall go? It went summer to winter in about...a day.

O.

Chapter 11 deals with coinage of the Nephites.

[Hemidakota]

According to Ancient Scripture Professor Janne M. Sjodahl and George Reynolds, in the book Commentary on the Book of Mormon, volume 3 -

Amulek's mention of "my women" in verse 11, indicates to us that the Nephites of that age were polygamists.

[Vort]

Chapter 11 deals with coinage of the Nephites.

There is no credible evidence the Nephites had coinage. Coins are never mentioned anywhere in the Book of Mormon. Coinage as we know it appears not even to have been developed until around the time Lehi left Jerusalem or shortly thereafter. Alma 11 reads better if the various terms are assumed to apply to weights or other measures of gold and silver, rather than as some sort of coinage.

According to Ancient Scripture Professor Janne M. Sjodahl and George Reynolds, in the book Commentary on the Book of Mormon, volume 3 -

Amulek's mention of "my women" in verse 11, indicates to us that the Nephites of that age were polygamists.

While I have a soft spot in my heart for Sjodahl and Reynolds' Commentary, it is hardly authoritative. You may read polygamy into the text based on Amulek's wording if you wish, but that's all it is -- a reading-in of a hoped-for idea.

[pam]

I think earlier in the thread we came to realize that he was referring to Chapter 10 not chapter 11.

[Hemidakota]

There is no credible evidence the Nephites had coinage. Coins are never mentioned anywhere in the Book of Mormon. Coinage as we know it appears not even to have been developed until around the time Lehi left Jerusalem or shortly thereafter. Alma 11 reads better if the various terms are assumed to apply to weights or other measures of gold and silver, rather than as some sort of coinage.

Whether or not we apply the term coinage to a stamped metal piece to equal something precious of value or just precious metal itself. It was declaring wages and earnings of what is being paid to the judges for labour.

GOLD SILVER

Senine is the unit. Senum is the unit.

Senines equal 1 Seon 2 Senums equal 1 Amnor

Senines equal 1 Shum 4 Senums equal 1 Ezrom

Senines equal 1 Limnah 7 Senums equal 1 Onti

A gold Senine was equal in value to a silver Senum, and a certain measure of barley or any other grain was equal in value to either.

The value of the smaller pieces were:

1 Shiblon was equal to half a Senum or a Senine.

1 Shiblum was equal to a quarter of a Senum or a Senine.

1 Leah was equal to one-eight of a Senum or a Senine

While I have a soft spot in my heart for Sjodahl and Reynolds' Commentary, it is hardly authoritative. You may read polygamy into the text based on Amulek's wording if you wish, but that's all it is -- a reading-in of a hoped-for idea.

So do I but I did not equate his statement as authoritative either but pointed out another view point: ["According to Ancient Scripture Professor Janne M. Sjodahl and George Reynolds"]

In reading or hearing another viewpoint expressed by those who study this as a field of employment, can only aid the reader to study and seek for an answer by the Spirit. It was Mormon who wrote the compressed narrative and he would know more than all of us.

[Over43]

First off, may I state that "a reading-in a hoped for idea" is certainly not accurate, nor correct. I made an observation. Although you are more than welcome to make accusations all you'd like, it makes no difference to me.

It was never a question that Amulek DID have multiple wives, but did he have multiple wives. This should naturally induce connversation and the exchange of ideas. Since the Nephite culture was obliterated by the Lamanite culture, and their allies, we truly do only have a brief glimpse of what Nephite life might have been like. But, from what v. 10 states, it appears that Amulek does allude to his family, children, women and father. There is no hint at servants.

And, on a side note, Sjodahl and Reynolds, I find, are quite excelllent, and no less authoritative than anyone else who presumes to be on thiis forum.

O.

[Vort]

First off, may I state that "a reading-in a hoped for idea" is certainly not accurate, nor correct. I made an observation. Although you are more than welcome to make accusations all you'd like, it makes no difference to me.

But apparently it does, since you are responding in this manner.

I apologize. I was not trying to make any accusations. I suspect every honest person who has ever made a real study of the Book of Mormon has come across this very passage about Amulek and thought, "Oh, hey! Does that mean Amulek lived polygamy?" So it's a natural and very reasonable question to ask.

It is also my observation that many men in the Church (not a majority, but still a not-insignificant number) lust after the idea of polygamy. My comment was not directed at you personally, but at the general mass of those who privately, and sometimes publicly, pine for the "return of polygamy" and hopefully read the practice into everything they can.

It was never a question that Amulek DID have multiple wives, but did he have multiple wives. This should naturally induce connversation and the exchange of ideas. Since the Nephite culture was obliterated by the Lamanite culture, and their allies, we truly do only have a brief glimpse of what Nephite life might have been like. But, from what v. 10 states, it appears that Amulek does allude to his family, children, women and father. There is no hint at servants.

That is because servants would not have been considered part of his household in the same way as "the women", which is to say, all dependent adult females. This is a common feature of Semitic cultures, and actually pretty common across many or most cultures (the Europeans were much the same).

And, on a side note, Sjodahl and Reynolds, I find, are quite excelllent, and no less authoritative than anyone else who presumes to be on thiis forum.

Exactly. Which is to say, not authoritative.

S&R are much more erudite than most, but much of their commentary is outdated. I still find it interesting to read and often insightful, but I certainly would not base my belief on their say-so.

[Over43]

If anyone is "pining" to have polygamy restored, they need to have their head examined. No offense ladies, life is complicated enough navigating with two addults in the house. I couldn't imagine adding more drama to the mix. :)

[sixpacktr]

If anyone is "pining" to have polygamy restored, they need to have their head examined. No offense ladies, life is complicated enough navigating with two addults in the house. I couldn't imagine adding more drama to the mix. :)

All I could see, if it was restored and I was allowed to take another wife, is another woman in the house. I had 3 daughters, a female dog, and a cat that wasn't male anymore. I was all alone as it was, and adding more estrogen in the house would NOT go well for me. All it would create is another ally for my wife!

[Dove]

I think in getting lost over the polygamy idea, we're losing sight of the beauty of Amulek's story. Whether or not he wrongfully practiced polygamy, he still gave up everything to do God's will in his life at that point...which was to join Alma in preaching the gospel to those people.....

I still believe he saw his own women and children burning in those flames, and then to have his "father, friends, and kindred" reject him because of his message, is quite grave. When Alma accepted the gospel in his heart after "sore repentance" for being wicked, he was welcomed into the loving arms of his father and family~not so for Amulek...

In the end, I don't really care whether he practiced polygamy or not, because he repented and was willing to forsake everything for his testimony of the Saviour/God...