Do truely good people exist?

[Gatsby]

I've been wondering for quite some time and wanted to know the opinion of members of the LDS church on this.

Is there really such thing as "bad" people?

I think bad people don't exist because we all make mistakes. Of course, some do "bad things" more often than others but that doesn't mean that they're bad people, IMHO.

People cheat on their spouses all time, lie, take advantage of others, steal,...at least that's what I see everyday and when I say "people" I'm referring to the whole world.

Not all police officers do what they're supposed to, some break the law and even abuse their authority, are they bad people?

Not all Latter-day Saints are striving their very best to live the gospel teachings, does that make them bad? No!

I think that it's absurd and naive to look at the world in black and white with no shades of grey.

Don't the scriptures say that God loves the sinner but not the sin.

Any thoughts?

[Maxel]

I've been wondering for quite some time and wanted to know the opinion of members of the LDS church on this.

Is there really such thing as "bad" people?

The answer hinges on your definition of "bad". Everyone has the potential to do good- that's a basic tenet of the LDS faith; free agency. However, there are people who consistently do the wrong things and commit serious offenses against other human beings. There are people who have rejected the Light of Christ, in otherwise goodness and truth, so much that they have corrupted themselves. They let their own spirits twist until they more closely represent the Devil than anything else. At this point, a person can very easily become 'bad'. However, these bad people may occasionally do good things, or have 'good' intentions.

Today's great challenge is the acceptance and recognition that bad acts must be accounted for by the perpetrator. Everywhere we see people attempting to escape the consequences of their bad actions, or force their perverted lifestyle on somebody else. Oftentimes advocates of these causes and actions point to some supposed good embodied by their philosophy and claim that their philosophy is actually good. If accepted, those people will go a step further and point out something bad in their opponent's philosophy and claim their opponent's cause or stance is 'bad'. Thus we see that the unrighteous call evil good, and good evil.

I believe the proper method of looking at people in general, when asking the OP's question, is not 'are people good or bad' but 'is a person more inclined to goodness or badness? In addition, which direction are they working towards in their life- do they follow wise counsel, or foolish counsel?' If to be bad requires a person to be perfectly evil, you will not find a single bad person on the face of the earth. Conversely, if you look for a good person on similar grounds, you will find no good people. The conclusion of this reasoning is that there are no good people; and no bad people. That conclusion is entirely false if we take the human condition into the equation- that is, a person may be 'good' but have some failings, and a person may be 'bad' yet have some positive qualities.

It reminds me of Alexander Pope's words in his Essay on Man:

"Virtuous and vicious ev'ry man must be,

Few in the extreme, but all in the degree:

The rogue and fool by fits is fair and wise,

And ev'n the best by fits what they despise."

So yes, a person may be a bad person, but we must adopt a more mature understanding of what it means to be a 'bad' person. The key is the level of spiritual maturity we attach to our assessment of the situation. A child sees the world in black and white; a teenager begins to see shades of gray; a true adult understands the shades of gray yet still sees the world as black and white in regards to sin and righteousness. It is in the middle ground that we find the Gospel truth.

NOTE: It should be noted that I am in no way referring to the OP or anyone else in my statement of how I see this issue, but I am stating how I have always felt.

Edited February 5, 2009 by Maxel

[Traveler]

I've been wondering for quite some time and wanted to know the opinion of members of the LDS church on this.

Is there really such thing as "bad" people?

I think bad people don't exist because we all make mistakes. Of course, some do "bad things" more often than others but that doesn't mean that they're bad people, IMHO.

People cheat on their spouses all time, lie, take advantage of others, steal,...at least that's what I see everyday and when I say "people" I'm referring to the whole world.

Not all police officers do what they're supposed to, some break the law and even abuse their authority, are they bad people?

Not all Latter-day Saints are striving their very best to live the gospel teachings, does that make them bad? No!

I think that it's absurd and naive to look at the world in black and white with no shades of grey.

Don't the scriptures say that God loves the sinner but not the sin.

Any thoughts?

We are all divine children of our Father in Heaven. What taints us is succumbing to the influences (temptation) of unclean spirits. What makes individuals evil is to spurn the influences (enlightenments) of divine holy spirits to return to the “straight and narrow” way.

One of the concepts of “salvation” is that of salvage. When we salvage something we seek out the “treasure” and that which is of value and discard that which is ruined or of no value. We can say that no one is completely worthless but one thing we should understand is that evil influences are like a cancer that will spread if allowed even to that which is healthy and of value and will in time render it ruined.

This goes beyond religion – a home that is not cleaned will in time become unlivable. A business that is not “managed” will go bankrupt. Even a friend or spouse that is not cared for and loved will become an enemy.

The Traveler

[tubaloth]

If there are no Bad people then there are no "good" people. Meaning there is no difference from one person to another?

We believe that as we follow Christ, Keep the Commandments we gain more light and intelligence. This is actually added some way to our spirit or enhances the already holy ghost and light of Christ we all have. As we grow closer to God and gain more light we see things more clearly, we understand things of God better.

The opposite is also true. As we break commandments, as we regress we loose this light and intelligence. We start to in a way loose that connection (the light of Christ) with our Heavenly Father. One of my stake presidents believed there was actually some type of element (material) that is evil.

(Doctrine and Covenants 131:7-8.)

7 There is no such thing as immaterial matter. All spirit is matter, but it is more fine or pure, and can only be discerned by purer eyes;

8 We cannot see it; but when our bodies are purified we shall see that it is all matter.

He believed that this spirit matter can both be good or bad. (That it has a range)

That we actually can grow in darkness as we do evil.

This is why some people that have done some pretty bad thing tend to be “past feeling” in a way. They really don’t have a conscience (light of Christ) to tell them what is right and wrong any more.

So yes there are good and bad people.

[Guest tomk]

We're all "gods in embryo" - even Jeff Dahmer or Ted Bundy.

People do bad things. Very bad things. But people are inherently good. You can sin to the point where the Light of Christ is pretty much extinguished. But this is the result of bad choices - not that the person is bad. The same person could have chosen good.

One day we will be judged. It will be a merciful judgement. Everything will be taken into account. Our upbringing, our circumstances, our exposure to saving truths and our responses.

[a-train]

There are no bad people, only bad choices.

-a-train

[lilered]

What is the difference between evil people and bad people?

Example: Was Cain evil or bad or both?

[MikeUpton]

i think that you're right Gatsby. I've also wondered about this, I think that good and bad people exist, but everything is relative. It is rumored ( I dont know that its true ) Joseph Smith said that if people could see how incredible even the telestial kingdom was, they would kill themselves to get there. Regardless of whether he said this, if you stop to think about what we believe about the telestial kingdom, its really pretty darn good compared to much of the rest of the world's vision of hell. I think that to a large extent this is why the Spirit leaves the minds and hearts of those who sin. Partly because the Lord cannot stand to be around filth, but also I believe it has a lot to do with protecting us. To know the truth, to have had visions of God, to know of his goodness in its fulness, then to rebel? THAT is bad. That is what Satan did. That I believe is the definition of the son of perdition.

[Islander]

Yes there are bad people. Those who seek to do evil continually, they relish in their power and they kill and ravish and destroy for the sake of it with no remorse. There are bad people that have no qualms about robbing you of all your possessions and kill you if you do not beg for your life that instance. Yes, there are bad people that will do anything to get gain or to make you subject to their dominion. People that to achieve their ends are willing to use any and ALL means.

I humbly suggest that some of you that do not believe it, the issue is that you have never encounter them.

[NeuroTypical]

Is there really such thing as "bad" people?

Yes. But neither you nor I have the ability and stewardship to label them such, or even recognize them when we see them. We just don't have the equipment to accurately judge a person's heart.

LM

[Misshalfway]

I think the key to all this IS in our choices. There is no doubt that all of us have a divine heritage and no doubt that we all have tremendous potential. But I think it is important to understand that our choices really do determine who and what we become.

Do I think there are bad people? Yes. I think they exist because of what they chose and the outcome of those choices changed them into something more different than God....not more like him.

[Gatsby]

Yes there are bad people. Those who seek to do evil continually, they relish in their power and they kill and ravish and destroy for the sake of it with no remorse. There are bad people that have no qualms about robbing you of all your possessions and kill you if you do not beg for your life that instance. Yes, there are bad people that will do anything to get gain or to make you subject to their dominion. People that to achieve their ends are willing to use any and ALL means.

I humbly suggest that some of you that do not believe it, the issue is that you have never encounter them.

I have but I also learned that I wasn't an actual "saint." We all do bad things, some do bad things that are unforgivable while most just commit minor offenses.

[Gatsby]

"So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her."

John 8:7

[Gatsby]

ANTISOCIAL PERSONALITY, SOCIOPATHY, AND PSYCHOPATHY!

People who suffer from these disorders, something must be wrong with them.

Antisocial personality disorder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[lilered]

Yes. But neither you nor I have the ability and stewardship to label them such, or even recognize them when we see them. We just don't have the equipment to accurately judge a person's heart.

LM

LM: I am not sure that I agree but I do understand the point you are making. I for one have had the expierence of witnessing an evil person. How do I know this person was evil? Because I heard a still small voice of warning to cease talking to this person and leave immediatly which I did. A few weeks later this individual was charged with Sodomy, Sexual Abuse, and Spousal Abuse. He also later was charged with embezzlement and financing inproprietys He ended up in prison for several years.

The Lord gives us a way to recognize evil. (whether it be a gift, situation, spirit, or person)

Moroni 7:

15 For behold, my brethren, it is given unto you to ajudge, that ye may know good from evil; and the way to judge is as plain, that ye may know with a perfect knowledge, as the daylight is from the dark night.

16 For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God.But whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do aevil, and believe not in Christ, and deny him, and serve not God, then ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of the devil; for after this manner doth the devil work, for he persuadeth no man to do good, no, not one; neither do his angels; neither do they who subject themselves unto him.

18 And now, my brethren, seeing that ye know the alight by which ye may judge, which light is the light of Christ, see that ye do not judge wrongfully; for with that same bjudgment which ye judge ye shall also be judged.

Edited February 21, 2009 by lilered

[Elphaba]

Define "bad."

Elphaba

[Bookmeister]

There are bad people, and anyone who doesn't believe this must live in a cave somewhere in Lalaland.

There are bad people, and therefore there must be good people who "deal" with bad people.

There are bad people, and sometimes it's both necessary and appropriate to kill them.

I don't know why some people are bad, but for me the important point is that there are bad people. There have always been bad people, and there will always (at least until things are settled in the End) be bad people.

And I can generally tell the bad people from the ordinary and/or good people.

[NeuroTypical]

I for one have had the expierence of witnessing an evil person. How do I know this person was evil? Because I heard a still small voice of warning to cease talking to this person and leave immediatly which I did. A few weeks later this individual was charged with Sodomy, Sexual Abuse, and Spousal Abuse.

So tell us how you know that person was evil? Sounds to me like the Spirit was warning you away from a dangerous person. Not all dangerous people are evil. Not all folks who do all that awful stuff are evil.

LM

[Guest missingsomething]

I believe there are people really off track... but I believe that if you got here... got a body... you are not bad. You may do bad things...

Dont know who said it... but there's a little saying... "Hate the sin, not the sinner"

Afterall, Christ atoned for everyone, not select ones.

Edited February 22, 2009 by missingsomething

[Maxel]

As I said before, it depends on a person's definition of 'bad'.

[Dr T]

I've been wondering for quite some time and wanted to know the opinion of members of the LDS church on this.

Is there really such thing as "bad" people?

I think bad people don't exist because we all make mistakes. Of course, some do "bad things" more often than others but that doesn't mean that they're bad people, IMHO.

People cheat on their spouses all time, lie, take advantage of others, steal,...at least that's what I see everyday and when I say "people" I'm referring to the whole world.

Not all police officers do what they're supposed to, some break the law and even abuse their authority, are they bad people?

Not all Latter-day Saints are striving their very best to live the gospel teachings, does that make them bad? No!

I think that it's absurd and naive to look at the world in black and white with no shades of grey.

Don't the scriptures say that God loves the sinner but not the sin.

Any thoughts?

Maybe we are ALL bad.

[Gatsby]

There are bad people, and anyone who doesn't believe this must live in a cave somewhere in Lalaland.

There are bad people, and therefore there must be good people who "deal" with bad people.

There are bad people, and sometimes it's both necessary and appropriate to kill them.

I don't know why some people are bad, but for me the important point is that there are bad people. There have always been bad people, and there will always (at least until things are settled in the End) be bad people.

And I can generally tell the bad people from the ordinary and/or good people.

Who are famous bad people that you've heard of?

Adolf Hitler,perhaps? We all sin, this is why Jesus Christ gave his life to save the world, isn't it?

[Gatsby]

Maybe we are ALL bad.

Maybe!

[Gatsby]

I just finish reading a few articles on Ted Bundy, perhaps to many of you he may be the personification of "evil." Supposedly he converted to Christianity. Many defined him as a sociopath even former FBI profiler Robert K. Ressler called Bundy an animal.

Honestly, who in their right mind kills someone they don't even know? You don't read about serial killers very often in the newspapers and when we do they tend to shock us. The man was indeed a monster but above all he was crazy IMHO.

[Gatsby]

Define "bad."

Elphaba

I wasn't sure who you were asking this question but I'll answer it. Anything considered evil or sinful.

& I came to the conclusion that I wasn't a clone of Jesus Christ.

I've stolen before when I was a kid, I've lied before, in some cases I've offended people withtout trying to, I've even been arrested over some dumb stuff and most people that personally know me will probably describe me as nice.