Why did satan tempt Adam and Eve to eat the friut?

[Orangeshift]

Didn't Brigham Young say that the notion of Adam being formed of the dust was an allegorical tale?

An allegory, in this case, means a fiction used to teach a spiritual truth.

We have several allegorical characters and objects included in the narrative: a fiery, turning sword, a talking snake, two trees with magical properties, and two or more winged, symbolic or mythical creatures.

We have the knowledge, via modern revelation, that mankind was formed in the beginning as they are formed today. We have the knowledge that it is experience that bestows knowledge, and covenant making/obedience to God's commandments that gives us eternal life. Trees didn't have much to do with it.

So...we don't really know what Eve may have thought or said, or if even this exact scenario was ever enacted. Not really. All we do know is that in the general outline, we are to consider ourselves as Adam and Eve. That means their story is our story. Their "trees" are our "trees", their temptations are our temptations, and the choices facing them then are the choices facing us, now.

Just my thoughts.

[Just_A_Guy]

Because if Heavenly Father would have commanded them to eat of the fruit He would be an unjust God. Because eating the fruit changed their bodies from an immortal state to a mortal one. And such an action would have been a punishment. If God commanded them to eat they would have been punished for following God's commandment. What kind of just God punishes someone for following His commandments? He HAD to command them not to eat of it or else He would have been an unjust God.

Using that logic, couldn't you have also said that by gaining the power to procreate, Adam and Eve were in fact blessed for their disobedience?

[Justice]

So...we don't really know what Eve may have thought or said, or if even this exact scenario was ever enacted. Not really. All we do know is that in the general outline, we are to consider ourselves as Adam and Eve. That means their story is our story. Their "trees" are our "trees", their temptations are our temptations, and the choices facing them then are the choices facing us, now.

How long has it been since you studied Alam 12?

[deseretgov]

Using that logic, couldn't you have also said that by gaining the power to procreate, Adam and Eve were in fact blessed for their disobedience?

How is gaining the ability to procreate greater than losing a perfect immortal body? You should also recall that Eve was cursed in child bearing. All effects of that fall. Changing form a state of near perfection to mortality. No matter what advantages a mortal body has it is still a lesser(cursed) state.

[deseretgov]

Didn't Brigham Young say that the notion of Adam being formed of the dust was an allegorical tale?

Brigham Young also said that Adam was God and that men live on the moon and in the sun.

[Just_A_Guy]

How is gaining the ability to procreate greater than losing a perfect immortal body?

Ask a mom sometime.

You should also recall that Eve was cursed in child bearing. All effects of that fall. Changing form a state of near perfection to mortality. No matter what advantages a mortal body has it is still a lesser(cursed) state.

But on the other hand--no matter how perfect your body, no increase is still no increase.

[Seminarysnoozer]

Ask a mom sometime.

But on the other hand--no matter how perfect your body, no increase is still no increase.

Its interesting how the majority of people that call themselves religious in this world would not care an ounce about increase, they just want to be 'saved.'

[Traveler]

This might be a stupid question or I'm misunderstanding things.

Why did satan tempt Adam and Eve to sin because by doing that he was helping Heavenly Fathers plan. If he had not tempted them then none of us would have been able to progress and the plan would have been stopped because we would have all been stuck in innocence and not progressed by learning and growing out in the lone and dreary world?

Also why did Heavenly Father tell them not to eat the forbidden fruit if was necessary for them to do so to progress?

Satan tempted Adam and Eve to disrupt their covenant with G-d and thereby become the "G-d of this world" and rule over Adam and Eve and their offspring. He knew that he would lose those that repent but he would have influence over those that do not repent and establish a covenant of salvation with G-d.

The Traveler

[Traveler]

Its interesting how the majority of people that call themselves religious in this world would not care an ounce about increase, they just want to be 'saved.'

It is not just an increase but marriage for the purpose of children.

The Traveler

[Justice]

Satan tempted Adam and Eve to disrupt their covenant with G-d and thereby become the "G-d of this world" and rule over Adam and Eve and their offspring. He knew that he would lose those that repent but he would have influence over those that do not repent and establish a covenant of salvation with G-d.

The Traveler

I believe it was a little more than this.

Those who willingly followed Lucifer did so in the pre-mortal existence. His plan was to capture EVERYONE who did not willingly follow him. He had a plan to do this and it WOULD HAVE worked.

Read Alma 12.

All he had to do was get Eve to eat the forbidden fruit, then immediately get her to the fruit of the tree of life. Notice Adam's name never enters the picture. WHat Adam did had NO bearing on bringing about Satan's plan. It was all dependant on what Eve did. This is why Satan tempted Eve and not Adam.

If Eve had partaken of the tree of life immediately afterward, no amount of repentance would have mattered.

I know I made some statements many will either not understand or not agree with. I am willing to use scriptures to discuss them.

What does Alma 12 say would have happened if Eve (Adam) partook of the tree of life immediately after eating the forbidden fruit?

Read Alma 12 (and Alma 42) and give it serious contemplation. Satan's plan would have worked, and there is a logical and reasonable explanation for why.

Why?

Hint: it has a lot to do with mortality.

Edited November 3, 2009 by Justice

[CarstenBN]

God has a perfect knowledge of things, and so does Christ, but why would Lucifer? I was reading a popular book with commentary through the KJV Bible (by an author whose name I forgot) where the point was made that Lucifer may have fooled himself in this case.

Now that's very loosely relayed, maybe I can find the quote again if someone is interested in reading it.

[Justice]

We passed through the veil of forgetting to enter mortality. Lucifer did not. He remembers God's plan and how he wanted to alter it. He remembers everything he learned there. I'm not saying he knows everything, but he certainly knew what God's plan was because he rejected it when it was proposed. In fact, I have given this much thought over the years, and I think part of the reason Lucifer didn't accept the plan, and all those who sided with him, is because they didn't want to pass through a veil of forgetting, having to rely on faith in another to be saved.

[candyprpl]

Its interesting how the majority of people that call themselves religious in this world would not care an ounce about increase, they just want to be 'saved.'

My husband had a person just the other day tell him that if he had to live 'as strict as you mormons have to live I'd rather go to hell'.

[Traveler]

We passed through the veil of forgetting to enter mortality. Lucifer did not. He remembers God's plan and how he wanted to alter it. He remembers everything he learned there. I'm not saying he knows everything, but he certainly knew what God's plan was because he rejected it when it was proposed. In fact, I have given this much thought over the years, and I think part of the reason Lucifer didn't accept the plan, and all those who sided with him, is because they didn't want to pass through a veil of forgetting, having to rely on faith in another to be saved.

I like your post on this subject - I think we can have a lot of fun discussing this topic. I think the reason Lucifer did not like the Father's plan was for several reasons. One reason was that I believe Satan thought that there was great risk in the plan. Satan used the risk to advance himself. It was his chance. He was very much against evil and wanted to prevent it - even at the cost of agency. I believe that was how he sold his ideas.

I think he still hates evil but figures that since we chose to have an evil option that we should have a full dose and be punished for it. I do believe he has great plans for those that choose evil and he sees himself as the only one to really believe in loving and supporting good and punishing evil. I think he believe everyone should be responsible to suffer for any evil they do. So tempting Adam and Eve to break a covenant - Satan saw to his advantage.

The Traveler

[Orangeshift]

How long has it been since you studied Alam 12?

You don't want to be mixing your allegorical parts with your real ones. The beauty of the Book of Mormon (Alma included) is that it is stripped almost completely of allegorical tales. It's very modern, in that respect. Even the "tower" account is missing (by design, but still missing). The ancients used mythical elements common to all cultures back in those days, as teaching tools. Even John the Beloved even uses them to teach his audience in Revelations. His audience had no trouble understanding him then because those were stories they knew really well.

Long story short- Brigham Young meant what he said. He was seconded by Elder Pratt. I have no doubt this viewpoint was supported by the rest of the 12. This is not to say there was no Adam and Eve. This is only to say that they are figures in a play where Genesis is concerned. The garden story is not an historical tale. It is an allegorical teaching tool.

[Orangeshift]

Brigham Young also said that Adam was God and that men live on the moon and in the sun.

I've always wanted to see those references. You don't happen to have them handy, do you?

[Justice]

So why didn't satan serve Eve a fruit salad?

(PS - I think the tree of knowledge may have been an actual tree/fruit... I do not think the "tree of life" was an actual tree with fruit though

13 Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth understanding.

14 For the merchandise of it is better than the merchandise of silver, and the gain thereof than fine gold.

15 She is more precious than rubies: and all the things thou canst desire are not to be compared unto her.

16 Length of days is in her right hand; and in her left hand ariches and honour.

17 Her ways are ways of pleasantness, and all her paths are peace.

18 She is a tree of life to them that lay hold upon her: and happy is every one that retaineth her.

(Old Testament | Proverbs 3:13 - 18)

He and she are used many times in scriptures when referring to things like earth, seeds, fruit...

Just because it used he and she doesn't mean it was an actual person, but it could have been a symbol of a person of that gender. Seeds are he becuase the represent the word of God, which "Word of God" is Christ.

In other words, I do believe both were real trees, and I also believe they were symbols for other things or individuals.

That is one of my favorite scriptures about the tree of life. :)

[Justice]

The garden story is not an historical tale. It is an allegorical teaching tool.

I believe it is both.

[Snow]

I see it differently. I do not see Adam being tempted by Satan. I see Eve being tempted and Adam wasn't "tricked" but was he chose to put Eve above God.

...or that the author of Genesis was a man in a male centered culture that presented woman as weak and easily deceived while the man was cool and rational.

[Seminarysnoozer]

2 Nephi 2 :9 "And our spirits must have become alike unto him, and we become devils, angels to a devil, to be shut out from the presence of our God, and to remain with the father of lies, in misery, like unto himself; yea, to that being who beguiled our first parents ..."

Isaiah or Jacob, whoever, didn't have a problem saying it was both Adam and Eve who were beguiled by Satan, "beguiled our first parents"

[Just_A_Guy]

Lehi. But Paul says almost the opposite, FWIW--that Eve was deceived, but Adam was not.

[Justice]

Does anyone see why Satan's plan would have worked? (speaking of the plan outlined in Alma 12 and 42)

I mean didn't God want Adam and Eve to partake of the tree of life after they partook of the forbidden fruit anyway?

What was fundamentally different about Satan's plan, and why did his plan have the power to remove the agency of man (or destroy the agency of man) and make it to where even the great Jehova could no longer save us?

[Vort]

I think the reason Lucifer did not like the Father's plan was for several reasons. One reason was that I believe Satan thought that there was great risk in the plan. Satan used the risk to advance himself. It was his chance. He was very much against evil and wanted to prevent it

Jesus seems not to agree with your theory:

"[The devil] was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it." (John 8:44)

"And whatsoever is more or less than this is the spirit of that wicked one who was a liar from the beginning." (D&C 93:25)

I think he still hates evil

You. Have. Got. To. Be. Kidding.

Seriously. You cannot possibly mean this.

[Vort]

Does anyone see why Satan's plan would have worked? (speaking of the plan outlined in Alma 12 and 42)

Satan had no plan. He lied. He sought to deceive, and he succeeded.

[Misshalfway]

I mean didn't God want Adam and Eve to partake of the tree of life after they partook of the forbidden fruit anyway?

Wait. I thought that if Adam and Eve partook of the fruit of the tree of life AFTER they had partaken of the fruit of good and evil that they would be trapped forever in their sins. So God put a barrier around the tree of life so they couldn't partake and frustrate the plan.