American LDS and Guns

[Vanhin]

All of my family members are familiar with guns, and I don't hide them from any of them. We go shooting regularly, and I give them plenty of opportunity to touch and feel, and to ask questions. They know what they sound like, and they know that guns are not toys, and they don't play with them. Because I diffuse their curiosity by allowing them to be exposed to guns, they never go snooping around.

I have five children ages 11,10,9,6, and 7 months. I think hiding your guns and never exposing them to your children is a mistake. Not only are my children exposed to firearms, I teach them how to use them safely as soon as they are capable. This heritage is as important to us, from a temporal perspective, as food storage, and managing our finances, or working hard for a living. Plus we do enjoy shooting too.

That's my take on it anyway.

Regards,

Vanhin

P.S. I bought my wife a Mossberg 500 for Christmas.

[NeuroTypical]

I've developed the habit of being armed in most places where it's legal to do so. That means at home too. So my girls are 8 and 5, and they like tackling daddy and wrestling with him. I've followed Vanhin's philosophy of education and familiarization to a great extent, and it seems to be working. In their minds, jumping on daddy and landing on his gun seems to be slightly more serious than landing on his cellphone. They don't want to break the cell phone because that would be a bad thing, and the gun is something that should stay put and be left alone because it's not a toy, it's dangerous.

I find their reactions healthy, there' no fear or innapropriate curiosity, just healthy respect.

LM

[hordak]

All of my family members are familiar with guns, and I don't hide them from any of them. We go shooting regularly, and I give them plenty of opportunity to touch and feel, and to ask questions. They know what they sound like, and they know that guns are not toys, and they don't play with them. Because I diffuse their curiosity by allowing them to be exposed to guns, they never go snooping around.

I have five children ages 11,10,9,6, and 7 months. I think hiding your guns and never exposing them to your children is a mistake. Not only are my children exposed to firearms, I teach them how to use them safely as soon as they are capable. This heritage is as important to us, from a temporal perspective, as food storage, and managing our finances, or working hard for a living. Plus we do enjoy shooting too.

That's my take on it anyway.

Regards,

Vanhin

P.S. I bought my wife a Mossberg 500 for Christmas.

What. You don't look old enough to have that many kids, or that old.:)

But You are dead right about teaching the kids instead of hiding it.

I can't think of any safety concern parents would hide in order to prevent their children from getting hurt.

Good choice in gift. Thinking of getting the field/ deer combo myself.

[Zechariah]

All of my family members are familiar with guns, and I don't hide them from any of them. We go shooting regularly, and I give them plenty of opportunity to touch and feel, and to ask questions. They know what they sound like, and they know that guns are not toys, and they don't play with them. Because I diffuse their curiosity by allowing them to be exposed to guns, they never go snooping around.

I have five children ages 11,10,9,6, and 7 months. I think hiding your guns and never exposing them to your children is a mistake. Not only are my children exposed to firearms, I teach them how to use them safely as soon as they are capable. This heritage is as important to us, from a temporal perspective, as food storage, and managing our finances, or working hard for a living. Plus we do enjoy shooting too.

That's my take on it anyway.

Regards,

Vanhin

P.S. I bought my wife a Mossberg 500 for Christmas.

This is very important. When I first met my wife, she was afraid of guns, never having been raised around them, and never having lived in an environment where they were ever seen, kept, or used. She, as an animal lover, also hated the idea of hunting. Once when she said she could only understand hunting if someone was going hungry and needed food to survive, I asked how she thought someone would be able to use a gun for that purpose, if he never learned how. That's when she began to understand that guns were tools, and that just as important as having a tool, is the needed skill to use it properly, safely, and effectively.

[Vort]

She, as an animal lover, also hated the idea of hunting.

I love animals, too. Especially lambs, pigs, beef, and chickens.

Question to the vegetarians: If we aren't supposed to eat animals, why are they made of meat?

[Zechariah]

I love animals, too. Especially lambs, pigs, beef, and chickens.

Question to the vegetarians: If we aren't supposed to eat animals, why are they made of meat?

My wife was a city girl. Meat came from the grocery store.

[Vanhin]

What. You don't look old enough to have that many kids, or that old.:)

Oh that picture is several years old... Though I did have two children at that point. Because of the change and decay of this mortal existence, I would be surprised if anyone recognized me from my youth at this point. I should do like Zechariah, and use a picture from even further back, from my missionary days even.

But You are dead right about teaching the kids instead of hiding it.

I can't think of any safety concern parents would hide in order to prevent their children from getting hurt.

Good choice in gift. Thinking of getting the field/ deer combo myself.

Nice. I had an old 1909 Argentine Mauser with my food storage for a while, for her to use, just in case, but that didn't seem practical. I think double ought buckshot will serve the purpose of home defense a little better for her.

Regards,

Vanhin

[Vort]

My wife was a city girl. Meat came from the grocery store.

Of course, I was not implying anything about your wife in my silliness. However, I do believe that everyone who eats meat should slaughter an animal at least once per year. No one should believe that meat (or eggs, or milk) comes from a store. I am no vegetarian, but I do think that any adult who eats meat ought to be willing to slaughter the animal to get it. If you aren't willing to slaughter the animal, don't eat meat.

I also believe that our national meat consumption would decrease significantly if all meat-eaters were required to slaughter at least one animal per year.

[Misshalfway]

Of course, I was not implying anything about your wife in my silliness. However, I do believe that everyone who eats meat should slaughter an animal at least once per year. No one should believe that meat (or eggs, or milk) comes from a store. I am no vegetarian, but I do think that any adult who eats meat ought to be willing to slaughter the animal to get it. If you aren't willing to slaughter the animal, don't eat meat.

I also believe that our national meat consumption would decrease significantly if all meat-eaters were required to slaughter at least one animal per year.

My dad actually made sure if we caught a fish or shot a deer that WE were the ones to clean it. BUt.....it's a good thing that I didn't grow up on a farm. I would have named each animal and held frequent funerals. Not that anyone would have known it. I would have hidden that under layers of farm toughness! Being a whiney girl in the world of tough men.....yeah, wouldn't have gone over well.

I am glad that there are big tough men who can hunt and all that. I mean all that orange is incredibly sexy! But I just don't wanna have to be the one to pull the trigger.

[Vanhin]

My dad actually made sure if we caught a fish or shot a deer that WE were the ones to clean it. BUt.....it's a good thing that I didn't grow up on a farm. I would have named each animal and held frequent funerals. Not that anyone would have known it. I would have hidden that under layers of farm toughness! Being a whiney girl in the world of tough men.....yeah, wouldn't have gone over well.

I am glad that there are big tough men who can hunt and all that. I mean all that orange is incredibly sexy! But I just don't wanna have to be the one to pull the trigger.

Right on Misshalfway. My brother once commented that he liked girls who threw like girls... That is some sound advice if you ask me.

Regards,

Vanhin

[Vort]

Right on Misshalfway. My brother once commented that he liked girls who threw like girls... That is some sound advice if you ask me.

• My wife throws like a girl.
• We have five children.

Quod erat demonstrandum.

[Vanhin]

My wife throws like a girl.

We have five children.

Quod erat demonstratum.

Exact-o! Now don't get me wrong, some times women need to be be strong "like unto the men", and sustain themselves and their infants on "raw meat", and that's okay too! :)

And so great were the blessings of the Lord upon us, that while we did live upon raw meat in the wilderness, our women did give plenty of suck for their children, and were strong, yea, even like unto the men; and they began to bear their journeyings without murmurings. (1 Ne. 17:2)

Regards,

Vanhin

[hordak]

Right on Misshalfway. My brother once commented that he liked girls who threw like girls... That is some sound advice if you ask me.

Regards,

Vanhin

My wife wears combat boots and is proficient with an M16 and M9. To each their own:)

Of course she still throws like a girl.

[Vanhin]

My wife wears combat boots and is proficient with an M16 and M9. To each there own:)

Of course she still throws like a girl.

Heck yeah!

Vanhin

[Dravin]

My wife wears combat boots and is proficient with an M16 and M9. To each their own:)

Of course she still throws like a girl.

So I'm guessing she still needs to work on her M67 skills. :)

[Moksha]

Love of guns is unchristian only if:

1. Self defense is unchristian.

2. Hunting is unchristian.

3. Target practice/recreational shooting is unchristian.

Perhaps we could even get CTR engraved onto the barrels.

[deals_dog]

Well Dravin

I take your points on board. I would say Hunting is unchristian if you don't eat what you kill, and may be if you are over eating meat it might pay to go back to D&C 89 and look at eating meat sparingly. Recreational killing of animals for pleasure never sat well with me, I have however dealt to the odd rabbit and other animal pests

I have no problem with self defense and you are right regarding having the right to carry guns to do so (because you live in a land flooded with these weapons somebody is bound to pull one on you so defend yourself)

Hey your argument about the gun not killing people its the person pulling the trigger. Maybe if I want to be simplify this a little for you, perhaps pornographic magazines are ok, its those who view them that have the problem. Alcohol may be fine too its those who over consume that have the problem. Yes a car can be used as a weapon so can a fork and a neck tie. Should we have a blanket ban on those too. Common sense has got to prevail somewhere.

As for the chemistry set killing the husband illustrated in my last response, yes she could have poisoned her husband, but being to emotional to premeditate this action she choose the easy option, the hand gun in the kitchen draw. Then she tried to kill her self with the same gun in her car. She was not that serious about that committment because she missed blowing a hole in the roof of her Lincoln Continental. The cops who had the car surrounded with their weapons drawn were debating whether to shoot her or not. One very brave officer managed to open the drivers side door grabbed her by the wrist, gun in hand and smashed her head into the side walk a few times till she dropped the weapon. As missionaries we dropped into the institution that had her in custody, she was a real site broken nose and two black eyes.

I recall as a missionary having to hit the pavement when a street argument got out of control, I could not believe how fast the hand guns came out, somebody ran inside and came out with a heavy caliber rifle. In one of my areas we lived neighboring a suburb that we were instructed by our mission president we could not enter. Gangs of Hispanics and Blacks who did not seem to enjoy each others company seemed to engage in the odd gun battle at night (they weren't using chemistry sets in those battles). I could go on but I don't want to bore you.

I live in a country that has banned hand guns for the use of the general population. We can legally purchase rifles under strict license for hunting and target shooting. We have the odd gun collector who has hand guns etc but under close and tight regulation. Yes some of our gang members have hand guns illegally and our police carry guns from time to time. We in New Zealand have our problems too. In the 48 years I have lived here I have not had a gun pulled on me or my family or my relatives and their families neither have they been shot at.

If your law permits you to carry or own hand guns or rifles etc then that's fine but always remember it is not that your society is so good that allows you the right to bare arms, but because you are under constant threat being surrounded by wickedness that you should feel the need to do so.

There is no glory in the sword, or the spilling of blood. He that lives by the sword shell die by the sword. I look forward to the coming of Christ when all this should be done away with when we can really live in peace. I look forward to the day when our weapons are beaten into plows or buried in the ground.

I am still having a problem with the right to bare arms to be included in a "gospel discussion, but I can understand your point of view and where you are coming from on this. In the United States this is a big issue

In final I remember a priesthood discussion dealing with food storage and the right to protect that storage from being stolen by hungry neighbors in times of famine. One of the brothers in the quorum stated that he would have no hesitation to shoot his neighbor who was attempting to steal his food. One very wise old patriarch said that he would invite all his neighbors in and feed them till his food ran out, then would starve together with his neighbors or perhaps God would provide more food. Which one of these men truly loved his neighbor. I hope that I can love my neighbor like that very wise Californian Patriarch.

I don't have all the answers but the gospel does

All the best

[Vort]

Perhaps we could even get CTR engraved onto the barrels.

I don't get it.

[Maxel]

I don't get it.

Don't try.

[hordak]

So I'm guessing she still needs to work on her M67 skills. :)

When i was in basic there was a guy in my flight who asked

"Sir are we going to learn hand to hand combat?" Our TI looked at him and said

"Son this is the Airforce. If the enemy gets that close you better kiss you #$% goodbye because it means they just got through the Marines and Army"

I think it applies with grenades as well.:)

[hordak]

Well Dravin

I take your points on board. I would say Hunting is unchristian if you don't eat what you kill, and may be if you are over eating meat it might pay to go back to D&C 89 and look at eating meat sparingly. Recreational killing of animals for pleasure never sat well with me, I have however dealt to the odd rabbit and other animal pests

Actually many legal hunted game are "Pest". We have government organizations like the DNR(department of natural resources) that keep track of the populations of these animals and issue hunting licenses and game limits for the purpose of keeping them from becoming a burden on live stock, other animals and to keep them from dieing of starvation.

Whether or not they do it for trophy or food both are doing the same thing. Keeping the animal population in check to prevent them from becoming a burden on human society.

Instead of trying to keep mice out of the kitchen they are trying to keep deer off the road.

[Zechariah]

Oh that picture is several years old... Though I did have two children at that point. Because of the change and decay of this mortal existence, I would be surprised if anyone recognized me from my youth at this point. I should do like Zechariah, and use a picture from even further back, from my missionary days even.

Yep - my pic goes further back to about, oh, 1915 or so I'd guess.

No, no - I'm not really that old. It's a picture of my grandfather.

[Zechariah]

Of course, I was not implying anything about your wife in my silliness.

Don't worry - I didn't think you were.

[Dravin]

I would say Hunting is unchristian if you don't eat what you kill, and may be if you are over eating meat it might pay to go back to D&C 89 and look at eating meat sparingly. Recreational killing of animals for pleasure never sat well with me, I have however dealt to the odd rabbit and other animal pests

I find it telling how people react to hunting. I immediately think of eating what you kill, others first think of trophy hunting. If one is wasting the meat it is not good stewardship. That said if the meat is donated I don’t see an issue, at least stewardship wise. If I go out and hunt and bring back meat for my family I’m effectively donating the lions share to my family, I’m certainly not eating the bulk of it. Pest control I don’t see an issue with either, whether it be deer or rats in your basement*.

* I find it interesting that some people have a problem with pest control and then think nothing about setting out rat traps. *shrug*

P.S. On review it looks like Hordak addressed this.

Maybe if I want to be simplify this a little for you, perhaps pornographic magazines are ok, its those who view them that have the problem.

If you want to make gun smithing equal to photographing naked women I suppose you can, but I am gonna disagree. You analogy is flawed from the start unless you are going to call the creation of guns unchristian in which case you better object to those making guns for the military.

but being to emotional to premeditate this action she choose the easy option

So anything that can make killing easier is unchristian? You description of the event is a poor attempt at pathos, it ain’t gonna work. You want me to tell a story about how a life was saved through the use of a gun? I doubt that’ll convince you any better than yours did me.

I live in a country that has banned hand guns for the use of the general population.

Which is fine, and if you want to argue it leads to a safer or otherwise better society go right ahead, but actually make that argument. Trying to argue against guns, or the culture that finds them appealing (I’m assuming you mean love in the same sense as the guy who loves cars or what have you), is unchristian you’ve got an uphill battle.

I am still having a problem with the right to bare arms to be included in a "gospel discussion, but I can understand your point of view and where you are coming from on this. In the United States this is a big issue

Well personally I don’t think it is necessarily a gospel issue (see my earlier comments), I just disagree that if somebody likes guns they are exhibiting unchristian behavior, or that guns are somehow inherently unchristian.

Which one of these men truly loved his neighbor.

Which has abosolutely nothing to do with guns. Tell me, if the old man had a collection of rifles that he was fond of would you then consider him less Christian? If the other man had spoken of using a baseball bat or his replica claymore would that make him more Christian in your eyes?

You may mean people who like/love guns and apparently relish the idea of taking human life are unchristian, but that isn't what you said. The second half of that is the critical one and can stand on its own. I guess what mainly got my dander up is well, I like guns, they're fun to shoot, they're 'cool' much in the same way a fast car is fun to drive or is 'cool' and you characterized that as unchristian in your haste.

I think it applies with grenades as well.

:) I'd imagine that would apply just as well to the M9 too.

Edited December 4, 2009 by Dravin

[Vanhin]

Here is one of my favorite Mormons of all time, and one that I know many non-Mormons consider their favorite as well. John Moses Browning...

John Browning - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Regards,

Vanhin