Church statistics for 2009

[Thetruechurch]

Now that its nearing the end of the year, when are they released?

I am eager to see how many people joined the church this year, one estimate is that the churches total membership will be 13,850,000 at the end of the year; as apparently baptism rates in the US and in other countries have boomed.

Although unconfirmed, this year is possibly highest year for growth since 1999, again defining critics claims that the church growth is slowing down, or declining.

[Dravin]

Although unconfirmed, this year is possibly highest year for growth since 1999, again defining critics claims that the church growth is slowing down, or declining.

Percentage wise or as total numbers?

[pam]

I believe it comes out at the first general conference which will be in April and then published in the May Ensign.

[pam]

I don't like going by growth numbers. It's useless to me actually. You know the saying...quality over quantity. If we start playing numbers games then we've lost sight of the true purpose of conversions.

The only place I see the importance of this is Sacrament meeting attendance as ward budgets are set by the number of people attending Sacrament meeting if I'm not mistaken.

Someone please correct me if I am incorrect but that is my understanding.

Edited December 16, 2009 by pam

[Dravin]

Oh, it is of limited utility. Especially as long as the Catholics are around (or some other religions) if you want to descend into an argumentum ad populum fallacy. That said, it is an semi-interesting bit of trivia to know.

[Thetruechurch]

Percentage wise or as total numbers?

Just numbers.

[pam]

I'm not saying it isn't interesting..I just don't think it's of the upmost importance to worry about numbers. Or to worry about which church is growing fastest.

[Thetruechurch]

I don't like going by growth numbers. It's useless to me actually. You know the saying...quality over quantity. If we start playing numbers games then we've lost sight of the true purpose of conversions.

The only place I see the importance of this is Sacrament meeting attendance as ward budgets are set by the number of people attending Sacrament meeting if I'm not mistaken.

Someone please correct me if I am incorrect but that is my understanding.

Whilst I agree the quality of conversions is most important, I also like to enjoy looking at the numbers of conversions to see the good work being done and the gospel spread throughout the world, it kind of adds up that there is "no stopping us" despite all the perscution and all the hatred we face.

However in relation to membership: I am so pleased that to hear my friend who is on his mission in Dublin, has worked hard not just converting people but getting large numbers of inactive members back active again (which is brilliant to be fair). :)

[nbblood]

I don't like going by growth numbers. It's useless to me actually. You know the saying...quality over quantity. If we start playing numbers games then we've lost sight of the true purpose of conversions.

The only place I see the importance of this is Sacrament meeting attendance as ward budgets are set by the number of people attending Sacrament meeting if I'm not mistaken.

Someone please correct me if I am incorrect but that is my understanding.

I agree. Hey, my wife became a member this weekend. To me that is the greatest growth in the church in my lifetime!!

But, then again, that's my own selfish interpretation.

[Wingnut]

It's hard to measure quality without also measuring quantity. My mission president taught me that. He didn't want us focusing on numbers, but he did want us to record them because they gave some measurable reflection of our work.

Ironically, retention is measured by numbers. I'm pretty sure that the only way that retention is measured is by ordination and sacrament meeting attendance.

[HiJolly]

I agree. Hey, my wife became a member this weekend. To me that is the greatest growth in the church in my lifetime!!

But, then again, that's my own selfish interpretation.

WOW!!! Congrats!!

Have you posted "the story"? Sounds like it could be interesting.

HiJolly

[pam]

Whilst I agree the quality of conversions is most important, I also like to enjoy looking at the numbers of conversions to see the good work being done and the gospel spread throughout the world, it kind of adds up that there is "no stopping us" despite all the perscution and all the hatred we face.

However in relation to membership: I am so pleased that to hear my friend who is on his mission in Dublin, has worked hard not just converting people but getting large numbers of inactive members back active again (which is brilliant to be fair). :)

Seeing that explanation that makes more sense to me.

I guess my personal perspective is likening the numbers to say..military recruiters..they have to get so many recruits each month..so it becomes more a number than the quality of the recruit. If that makes any sense.

But I can see the other points as well.

[MarginOfError]

Looking at gross volume of convert baptisms can be a pretty misleading indicator of growth. While we may be excited to see a higher volume of convert baptisms, it really isn't anything to celebrate if the number only grows in proportion to past growth. That is, if there is a 3% growth in Church membership due to convert baptisms from year to year, the volume is going to grow every year (think compound interest). It doesn't mean we're growing faster. It just means we're growing.

Personally, I think it's silly that the Church makes such a big deal about total membership. Out of a membership base of approximately 13 million, only about 5.2 million regularly attend sacrament meeting. Even fewer of those hold temple recommends. And even fewer of those make regular trips to the temple. Home teaching lingers around 30%. Quite simply, the Church isn't nearly the force in the world that the 13 million number attempts to present.

I'd be a lot more interested in the report of total church membership if it were given as the basis for some meaningful statistics. It should always be accompanied by sacrament attendance, priesthood and auxiliary attendance, members who hold recommends, and percentage of families receiving more than half of their home teaching visits. Until then, 13 million is just a number that makes us feel better about the fact that we're not ministering to the members nearly as well as we should.

[pam]

I'm agreement with you MOE on several points. I think it would be interesting as well to see statistics as an overall Church on several of those issues such as home teaching, visiting teaching etc.

While missionary work is sooo very important, don't misunderstand me on this, I think it would be important to see some of those other statistics as well to perhaps let members see that it's also important to minister to those in their wards and branches as well.

[Guest mormonmusic]

Personally, I think it's silly that the Church makes such a big deal about total membership. Out of a membership base of approximately 13 million, only about 5.2 million regularly attend sacrament meeting. Even fewer of those hold temple recommends. And even fewer of those make regular trips to the temple. Home teaching lingers around 30%. Quite simply, the Church isn't nearly the force in the world that the 13 million number attempts to present.

1. Why do you think we have so much trouble retaining members, and getting full activity?

2. Does anyone know what the ratio of active/less-active members is, in other Christian churches? How do we compare to say, the Catholic Church, or other mainstream Christian religions?

[NeuroTypical]

Although unconfirmed, this year is possibly highest year for growth since 1999, again defining critics claims that the church growth is slowing down, or declining.

Well, I don't know how 'defining' this chart is, but here you go:

Note: 2008 actual: 265,593 (decrease of 13,625)

We'll hear 2009 numbers in April.

LM

Edited December 16, 2009 by Loudmouth_Mormon

[Hemidakota]

April is always the reporting period of last years stats.

[Thetruechurch]

1. Why do you think we have so much trouble retaining members, and getting full activity?

2. Does anyone know what the ratio of active/less-active members is, in other Christian churches? How do we compare to say, the Catholic Church, or other mainstream Christian religions?

Although towering above us in membership, the catholic church possibly has more inactive members on percentage than we do. Simply because you get a high amount of babies that are christened catholic after birth and never actually play an involvement in the faith.

I also go to a catholic school, and most of the people I know there were simply people born into catholic backgrounds and couldn't care aless anymore (only a couple of members of staff are actually active catholic). That's in contrast to most people who are born and raised into mormonism usually stick by, and I've noticed that a possible 60% of the active members in my ward are people who have been born into the faith.

[Thetruechurch]

Well, I don't know how 'defining' this chart is, but here you go:

Note: 2008 actual: 265,593 (decrease of 13,625)

We'll hear 2009 numbers in April.

LM

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints membership history - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia this wikipedia article contradicts the chart, the article claiming 314,510 joined the church in 2008 based on the difference from the membership in 2007 (meaning it includes an increase in children on record aswell).

However the same article claims 341,491 have joined the church this year, and I have no idea where that's came from...

[MarginOfError]

1. Why do you think we have so much trouble retaining members, and getting full activity?

I imagine the biggest reason is that we don't know who a lot of these people are and are retaining people on our records who have no desire to be affiliated with the Church. Having just finished purging our records of members we can't locate, and removing the names those who don't want to be on the records, we are at nearly 70% activity, with all members in the other 30% receiving visits from home teachers. Just knowing everyone in your ward and what their circumstances are makes a huge difference.

2. Does anyone know what the ratio of active/less-active members is, in other Christian churches? How do we compare to say, the Catholic Church, or other mainstream Christian religions?

Don't know and don't really care. I don't know that many other churches are as diligent about record keeping as the LDS Church is, and so that might make it difficult to measure. I highly doubt it's much different than what the LDS experience though.

[NeuroTypical]

My source is the statistical report produced in April during General Conference. Not sure about Wiki articles.

Other data:

Total membership

2006: 12,868,606

2007: 13,193,999

2008: 13,508,509

Increase in children of record

2006: 94,006

2007: 93,698

2008: 123,502

[Guest mormonmusic]

I imagine the biggest reason is that we don't know who a lot of these people are and are retaining people on our records who have no desire to be affiliated with the Church. Having just finished purging our records of members we can't locate, and removing the names those who don't want to be on the records, we are at nearly 70% activity, with all members in the other 30% receiving visits from home teachers. Just knowing everyone in your ward and what their circumstances are makes a huge difference.

Even after doing a massive Ward list cleanup, I still had a ton of less active people. Can't remember actual percentages at this point, but it was large. 200 families assigned to our quorum with only 14 active companionships to home teach them, after cleaning up the records.

But back to the point -- I'm asking why these people who went through the whole baptism and confirmation process, missionary discussions, etcetera, fall away so quickly?

One reason -- I think we have such a hard time retaining members is the commandments are harder to live. I've seen a lot of new members come and go because they fall back into their old lifestyle -- smoking, drinking, sexual impurity, coffee, tea etcetera -- and then they feel guilty. Not because anyone MAKES them feel that way, but because they just feel guilty being at Church, learning about the commandments and what they covenanted prior to baptism..

At one time, I worked really hard to have new members go to the temple for temple baptisms soon after joining. And the number of new converts who refused to go was staggering. A couple people, when I asked them what their concerns were, confided they didn't feel worthy or that they working with the Bishop. Also, I could smell tobacco on one woman's breath, which suggested this was a possible cause.

One woman showed up inebriated at the weekly youth night for an appointment with the Bishop on an unrelated matter. Her activity dropped off and we never saw her again.

Some people join for the wrong reasons too. I won't go into that though.

We want the people who need to make changes to live the gospel, to repent, and be baptized, but I think in the case of many, old habits die hard, they feel guilty, and stop coming.

However, let's not forget to celebrate the ones who join and embrace the gospel fully. There are those kinds of stories too...

Edited December 16, 2009 by mormonmusic

[Wingnut]

1. Why do you think we have so much trouble retaining members, and getting full activity?

There's too much focus on baptism and not enough on retention. This has always been the case, until President Hinckley came along, and specifically his landmark "Find the Lambs, Feed the Sheep" talk in 1999, where he talked about the three things that every new member needs. In that talk, he also stated, "Any investigator worthy of baptism becomes a convert worthy of saving."

Things have been changing a lot over the last 5-8 years in the missionary realm, but there needs to be a bigger, better focus on teaching in members' homes, sitting with members at church, and member referrals. All of those things encourage retention because it makes the Gospel not so missionary-based.

I knew a branch president in my mission who didn't just not care about retention -- he was actually anti-retention. He had had a brief period of inactivity when he was baptized 14 years earlier, but went on to serve a mission and was at the time branch president, and had been for the last five years. His branch was the highest baptizing area in the mission -- two companionships and big numbers. A lot of people fell away really quickly. There wasn't enough member involvement or leadership support. As missionaries, we tried to bring this up in PEC one Sunday. The branch president cut us off and said that he didn't care about retention: inactivity was just a phase that everyone had to go through after their baptism, and they'd come back eventually -- after all, just look at him!

Six months after I went home from my mission, two elders walked in on that branch president watching porn in his home, while his wife and four children were home.

[jadams_4040]

Now that its nearing the end of the year, when are they released?

I am eager to see how many people joined the church this year, one estimate is that the churches total membership will be 13,850,000 at the end of the year; as apparently baptism rates in the US and in other countries have boomed.

Although unconfirmed, this year is possibly highest year for growth since 1999, again defining critics claims that the church growth is slowing down, or declining.

Stats are announced in spring conferance and we will be well over 14 million.:)

[nbblood]

WOW!!! Congrats!!

Have you posted "the story"? Sounds like it could be interesting.

HiJolly

Well, here's a little bit about it. I'll probably post more at some point.

http://www.lds.net/forums/general-discussion/28599-today-great-day.html