Secret Combinations

[Hemidakota]

Back to the Book of Mormon, something I failed to mentioned concerning the robbers and what was called Lamanites after Savior left and the people were united as to one belief, it was open rebellion of those of the gospel. Something similar I believe will happen in the latter end of the Millennium:

n the year A. C. 231, a great division occurred, and the people were again divided into two strong contending bodies, who assumed the old names of Nephites and Lamanites. 1 But there was a great difference between those opposing races and those who had borne the same names in centuries past. The Nephites of this age were the true believers in Christ, while the new Lamanites, (whatever their pedigree) had not dwindled in unbelief, but had wilfully and knowingly rebelled against the truth, and their children, through the wickedness and abominations and false teachings of these fathers, diminshed in everything that was good—in knowledge, in handicraft, in civilization, and also in beauty; for now they were a white and lovely people, but soon the old skin of darkness—the fit companion of their filthy habits and mark of God's displeasure—came upon them. Nor were they alone in their iniquity, the Nephites soon followed in the same path, the Gadianton robbers re-appeared, the land was full of violence, and the inspired recorder was compelled to confess (A. C. 300) that "there were none that were righteous save it were the disciples of Jesus."

Still active hostilities did not break out for some time; but when war commenced, it scarcely ceased until that great battle near Cumorah, which brought extinction to the Nephite race. This war, or series of wars, was one of peculiar horrors. All the old savagery ten times intensified, was rekindled, transforming the combatants into fiends. Each race seems to have striven to outrival the other in its bloody and infernal inhumanity. Mormon, the Nephite Prophet-general, in an epistle to his son, Moroni, sorrowingly relates the fate of the Nephite prisoners—men, women and children—taken at Sherrizah. He adds: "And the husbands and fathers of those women and children they [the Lamanites] have slain; and they feed the women upon the flesh of their husbands, and the children upon the flesh of their fathers; and no water save a little do they give them. And notwithstanding the abomination of the Lamanites, it doth not exceed that of our people in Moriantum. For behold, many of the daughters of the Lamanites have they taken prisoners, and after depriving them of that which was most dear and precious above all things, which is chastity and virtue; and after they had done this thing, they did murder them in a most cruel manner, torturing their bodies even unto death; and after they have done this, they devour their flesh like unto wild beasts, because of the hardness of their hearts, and they do it for a token of bravery." Such was the horrible condition into which open, wilful, determined rejection to the Gospel had brought both races.

We will not harrow up the feelings of the reader with the details of this last long-continued agony. Suffce it to say, war broke out A. C. 322. At first the Nephites were victorious, and active hostilities were not resumed until A. C. 326. The fortune of war rested triumphantly first on one army then on the other. The name of the Lamanite king was Aaron, while the youthful Mormon led the armies of Nephi. After a continuance of this most sanguinary conflict which extended all over the land with the most variable results, a treaty was patched up (A. C. 350) by which it was agreed that the Nephites should hold all North America, and the Lamanites possess the whole Southern Continent. The Isthmus of Panama being the dividing line between the two nations. A peace of ten years followed, when the Lamanitish king invaded the Land Desolation. Year by year the horrors increased, until, by mutual agreement, the remnants of Nephi gathered in one vast body, met their foes at Cumorah, fought with the desperation of despair, were overwhelmed and annihilated (A. C. 385). Contributor, vol. 5 (October 1883-September 1884)

[bjw]

hmmmm

looks Satanic to me

Bohemian Grove does a ritual called "Cremation of Care" in front of a giant owl statue in the form of the idol Molech. So, I think this would be a good example of a secret combination that uses rituals to worship false gods. Edited January 6, 2010 by bjw
spelling

[HiJolly]

Bohemian Grove does a ritual called "Cremation of Care" in front of a giant owl statue in the form of the idol Molech. So, I think this would be a good example of a secret combination that uses rituals to worship false gods.

Would you say that 'false gods' = satanic? I'm not sure I'd go that far.

HiJolly

[Moksha]

Concerning Masonry and its relation to secret combinations: Joseph Smith was a 3rd degree Mason (the lowest degree needed to attend Masonic meetings I believe) ...

Wish Greg Kearny, MormonMason or Dale Broadhurst could verify this. I thought Joseph Smith rose to the rank of 33rd degree Mason in the Nauvoo Lodge. The 33rd degree is the highest attainable.

[Pianoman216]

Wish Greg Kearny, MormonMason or Dale Broadhurst could verify this. I thought Joseph Smith rose to the rank of 33rd degree Mason in the Nauvoo Lodge. The 33rd degree is the highest attainable.

No, thats a very common misconception. 33rd degree masons can only be of full Scottish (or is it Irish? Or maybe something else?) descent. I dont even think there are any that live in America, especially at that time.

[HiJolly]

No, thats a very common misconception. 33rd degree masons can only be of full Scottish (or is it Irish? Or maybe something else?) descent. I dont even think there are any that live in America, especially at that time.

Joseph was raised to the rank of Master Mason, which is the third and highest level IN THE BLUE LODGE Masonic tradition. On sight, I still maintain, other opinions notwithstanding.

Higher ranks require going into either the York or Scottish Rites (and there are some others as well but they are far less common). Scottish goes to 33rd degree, though most don't go beyond 32. When I was a teenager I was told that to move from 32 to 33 it required a personal pilgrimage to the Holy Land. I don't know if that's correct or not. I could easily find out.

In Miami, FL there is an incredibly beautiful (some would say ornate) Scottish Rite temple. It is amazing.

HiJolly

[Hemidakota]

Wow! That is a architecture masterpiece.

[NeuroTypical]

Bohemian Grove does a ritual called "Cremation of Care" in front of a giant owl statue in the form of the idol Molech. So, I think this would be a good example of a secret combination that uses rituals to worship false gods.

From what I've seen, there's very little worshipping going on at BG. A lot of drinking and acting stupid and congratulating each other for being at the BG, but hardly worshipping.

LM

[HiJolly]

Wow! That is a architecture masterpiece.

Yes. It is made of granite, is just beautiful.

HiJolly

[HiJolly]

From what I've seen, there's very little worshipping going on at BG. A lot of drinking and acting stupid and congratulating each other for being at the BG, but hardly worshipping.

LM

That's a good point.

HiJolly

[cookslc]

Wish Greg Kearny, MormonMason or Dale Broadhurst could verify this. I thought Joseph Smith rose to the rank of 33rd degree Mason in the Nauvoo Lodge. The 33rd degree is the highest attainable.

Joseph Smith was a Master Mason, or third degree. The basic lodge in US Masonry only confers the three degrees. Scottish Rite Freemasonry, which confers the 33rd degree, was not organized in Illinois at the time. Joseph's rank in Masonry can also be seen from the Anson Call/Utah prophecy in which Joseph remained outside the lodge during what appears to be the consecration of a new lodge.

It has been said that Joseph was made a Mason at sight. This is not an accurate use of the term, if it is meant that he did not got through the ceremonies of each degree. The extant evidence is that he did go through the ceremonies. However, the time limits between degrees were waived. This is a relatively common occurrence.

There is no evidence the Masonic ritual descended from the Temple of Solomon.

[HiJolly]

There is no evidence the Masonic ritual descended from the Temple of Solomon.

That's true, we know of no evidence to that effect. But had you brought that up in any blue lodge in the 1840's, you'd likely have had some extended and vigorous arguments!

I know you haven't argued against this, but still I'll say: There is a LOT of evidence that practically 100% of American Masons absolutely believed that the ritual came from the Temple of Solomon.

HiJolly

[cookslc]

That's true, we know of no evidence to that effect. But had you brought that up in any blue lodge in the 1840's, you'd likely have had some extended and vigorous arguments!

I know you haven't argued against this, but still I'll say: There is a LOT of evidence that practically 100% of American Masons absolutely believed that the ritual came from the Temple of Solomon.

HiJolly

Based on my travels throughout North American Masonry, I think this has rapidly changed, particularly with younger Masons. I simply correct the others. In my experience it's Latter-day Saints who seem to have the greater problem with correct knowledge on the issue. I've done my best to correct that as well (referencing, in part, the new M. Brown DVD).

[Justice]

Would you say that 'false gods' = satanic? I'm not sure I'd go that far.

Moroni addresses this more clearly than any other author we have.

Moroni 7:

16 For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God.

17 But whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do evil, and believe not in Christ, and deny him, and serve not God, then ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of the devil; for after this manner doth the devil work, for he persuadeth no man to do good, no, not one; neither do his angels; neither do they who subject themselves unto him.

18 And now, my brethren, seeing that ye know the light by which ye may judge, which light is the light of Christ, see that ye do not judge wrongfully; for with that same judgment which ye judge ye shall also be judged.

19 Wherefore, I beseech of you, brethren, that ye should search diligently in the light of Christ that ye may know good from evil; and if ye will lay hold upon every good thing, and condemn it not, ye certainly will be a child of Christ.

He goes on to say how to lay hold of every good gift.

But, if something does not persuade to believe in Christ then it is not of God.

I know in our world of G, PG, PG-13, R ratings we sometimes see degrees of what may persuade to believe in Christ. But, Moroni is crystal clear. So, even if you don't view this as satanic, it certainly does not persuade to believe in Christ. And, according to Moroni, is part of Satan's ploy to draw our attention away from Christ.

[cookslc]

.. When I was a teenager I was told that to move from 32 to 33 it required a personal pilgrimage to the Holy Land. I don't know if that's correct or not. I could easily find out.

...

HiJolly

No. In the Southern Jurisdiction of the Scottish Rite you need not even go to D.C. to have the degree conferred.

[cookslc]

No, thats a very common misconception. 33rd degree masons can only be of full Scottish (or is it Irish? Or maybe something else?) descent. I dont even think there are any that live in America, especially at that time.

No such descent is required. Indeed, the majority of 33rd degrees are now in the U.S. This system of degrees actually has its origin in France.

[JohnnyRudick]

I'm a Freemason and my lodge library has a book called "History of Freemasonry" by Albert G. Mackey, a top masonic scholar from the 19th century. In the book he mentions something called "Spurious Freemasonry" that some early masons believed existed during Old Testament times, where a secret group of people had signs, tokens, passwords, rituals, etc. just like the regular masons but had turned to idol worship instead of worshiping the true God. This was mostly believed by those that believe modern masonry has ancient roots. Since Mormonism believes that masonry contains ancient elements I would say our scholars more than likely fall into this camp.

I think the Gadianton Robbers would be a good example of the "Spurious" masons mentioned in this book. Maybe Satan has brought his same secret combination out in every culture and society, even today as well as the BoM times. Satan probably takes the same ritual format but corrupts it into a similar secret society as what modern-day Mormons and Masons practice, but uses it for worship of false gods or Satan. This is similar to how the Church of Satan uses a corruption of the Catholic Mass (for the Black Mass) and the Shriners ritual (in their "Satanic Rituals" book.)

I think more and more of this goes on in secret, we just don't hear about it.

Look for George Washington's letters of warning of corruption among the lodges in the New World.

Bro. Rudick

[JudoMinja]

Thinking of Secret Combinations and looking at the crystal clarity with which they are described in the Book of Mormon is frightening when comparing it to our modern day. I have no doubt that the Book of Mormon was written for our time. There are many warnings etched in there if only we know how to look at them.

I see how lost people are becoming in sin, in denying their wickedness, in secret combinations and I wonder how much longer we can go before the Lord has considered us ripe for destruction.

In relation to the drug matters- I have heard many times how people involved with drugs, whether they are dealing or using, just KNOW another person in the trade when they see them. They can walk up to a total stranger and ask for the drugs and feel perfectly confident that the stranger has them. There is something there that they can see/sense that others don't recognize. This is a definite sign of secret combinations.

I think anything having to do with secret combinations is far more dangerous than simple sin. It is harder to get out of, more binding and ensnaring and addicting. Like the mafia or gangs where your membership is for life- there is usually only one way out should you change your mind, and that's to be killed. Satan does not easily let go of those he has already captured. While we must be cautious and avoid sin, I think we must be even more careful to avoid secret combinations.

[bjw]

There is no evidence the Masonic ritual descended from the Temple of Solomon.

While there is no evidence that the ritual itself goes back that far, I believe there are many remnants in the rituals of ancient origin. There have been square and compass designs found in ancient archaeology dating back thousands of years, such as the Asana Astuary. Also, many of the rituals have similaities with the ancient mysteries, Egyptian, Christianity, etc. Even in degrees 4-32 of the Scottish Rite I noticed a lot of similarities to Mormonism, and the early Mormons never even went through these degrees.

So, I believe that, even though Freemasonry may not have existed before the 1700s, the rituals themselves have an origin that dates back to ancient times. Some of these ancient mysteries no longer exist, but are kept alive in masonry.

Besides, to believe Mormonism to be true, it seems you would almost have to believe in some element of ancient origin of masonry.

[cookslc]

While there is no evidence that the ritual itself goes back that far, I believe there are many remnants in the rituals of ancient origin. There have been square and compass designs found in ancient archaeology dating back thousands of years, such as the Asana Astuary. Also, many of the rituals have similaities with the ancient mysteries, Egyptian, Christianity, etc. Even in degrees 4-32 of the Scottish Rite I noticed a lot of similarities to Mormonism, and the early Mormons never even went through these degrees.

So, I believe that, even though Freemasonry may not have existed before the 1700s, the rituals themselves have an origin that dates back to ancient times. Some of these ancient mysteries no longer exist, but are kept alive in masonry.

Besides, to believe Mormonism to be true, it seems you would almost have to believe in some element of ancient origin of masonry.

a. I think it more accurate to say Freemasonry adopted ancient symbols, rather than is a literal descendant from the ancient mystery schools or other rituals. Clearly this was the case with Pike's AASR ritual. See The Scottish Rite Ritual Monitor and Guide by Arturo de Hoyos.

b. For me (and many other LDS Masons), we do not have to believe in an ancient origin of Freemasonry to believe in the LDS Church. I think this is best described in Matthew Brown's companion DVD to Exploring the Relationship between Mormons and Masons (I get no residuals from sales).

[JohnnyRudick]

a. I think it more accurate to say Freemasonry adopted ancient symbols, rather than is a literal descendant from the ancient mystery schools or other rituals. Clearly this was the case with Pike's AASR ritual. See The Scottish Rite Ritual Monitor and Guide by Arturo de Hoyos.

b. For me (and many other LDS Masons), we do not have to believe in an ancient origin of Freemasonry to believe in the LDS Church. I think this is best described in Matthew Brown's companion DVD to Exploring the Relationship between Mormons and Masons (I get no residuals from sales).

BJW did not say that Freemasonry had it's lineage from the Temple of Salomon or any other ancient lineage.

He has been trying to tell us that many parts and elements of Freemasonry and the Scottish Rite are from ancient sources.

Yeah, I most likely botched my two cents as well but some will know what we are trying to say.

No, Freemasonary is another "New and Improved" version of the "Good ol' Boys" club.

Yup. That's what it is.

But our Church is "The Real Thing":D

Bro. Rudick

[cookslc]

BJW did not say that Freemasonry had it's lineage from the Temple of Salomon or any other ancient lineage.

He has been trying to tell us that many parts and elements of Freemasonry and the Scottish Rite are from ancient sources.

Yeah, I most likely botched my two cents as well but some will know what we are trying to say.

No, Freemasonary is another "New and Improved" version of the "Good ol' Boys" club.

Yup. That's what it is.

But our Church is "The Real Thing":D

Bro. Rudick

a. I am glad we're in agreement that Masonry only borrows from ancient sources.

b. Yes, of course the Church is the Real Thing, but I suggest a comparison of the value of the two entities is misplaced. Freemasonry is not a place to find salvation, but friendship, lessons of morality and opportunities of service. The better comparison would be with the Boy Scouts.

c. As for the usually pejorative term "Good ol' Boys" club [sic], I disagree. Masonry in the United States brings men together from across the class system and economic levels. I have brethren who are security guards and truck drivers and others who are physicians and lawyers;or admirals and enlisted.

That said, Masonry is not for everyone. Further, Church callings and family duties take clear precedence, just as they do over over golf, TV and internet discussion groups.

[JohnnyRudick]

a. I am glad we're in agreement that Masonry only borrows from ancient sources.

b. Yes, of course the Church is the Real Thing, but I suggest a comparison of the value of the two entities is misplaced. Freemasonry is not a place to find salvation, but friendship, lessons of morality and opportunities of service. The better comparison would be with the Boy Scouts.

c. As for the usually pejorative term "Good ol' Boys" club [sic], I disagree. Masonry in the United States brings men together from across the class system and economic levels. I have brethren who are security guards and truck drivers and others who are physicians and lawyers;or admirals and enlisted.

That said, Masonry is not for everyone. Further, Church callings and family duties take clear precedence, just as they do over over golf, TV and internet discussion groups.

We have brought "Scouting" into our Church activities because of it's obious worth but as far as bringing people together from all over the world " from across the class system and economic levels", "security guards and truck drivers and others who are physicians and lawyers;or admirals and enlisted." The Church does that.:)

Bro. Rudick

[cookslc]

We have brought "Scouting" into our Church activities because of it's obious worth but as far as bringing people together from all over the world " from across the class system and economic levels", "security guards and truck drivers and others who are physicians and lawyers;or admirals and enlisted." The Church does that.:)

Bro. Rudick

I agree, but the point was not why the Church adopted the Scouting program, but comparing Freemasonry to Scouting and not to the Church. Remarkable similarities between Scouting and Freemasonry: unique handshakes, initiation, oaths, ranks, signs, prayer...

I also agree the Church brings people of different classes together (though I don't know of any admirals, just generals), so it's not an old boys club either (among other reasons).

You added in bold a comment about bringing people together from all over the world. If the point was to indicate that Freemasonry doesn't, well, I've attended Masonic meetings in Africa, Bulgaria, England, Scotland, Canada, and France. Alabama too.

But again, the point isn't to compare the relative value of the Church and Freemasonry. Apples and oranges. One is based upon obligations to God, the other obligations to his fellow man. It's like comparing the Church to college football. The latter is a fine activity, and though imprecations to deity are made by many fans, football really isn't a religion. Really. Even in Alabama.

Edited January 8, 2010 by cookslc

[JohnnyRudick]

I agree, but the point was not why the Church adopted the Scouting program, but comparing Freemasonry to Scouting and not to the Church. Remarkable similarities between Scouting and Freemasonry: secret handshakes, initiation, oaths, ranks, signs, prayer...

I also agree the Church brings people of different classes together (though I don't know of any admirals, just generals), so it's not an old boys club either (among other reasons).

You added in bold a comment about bringing people together from all over the world. If the point was to indicate that Freemasonry doesn't, well, I've attended Masonic meetings in Africa, Bulgaria, England, Scotland, Canada, and France. Alabama too.

But again, the point isn't to compare the relative value of the Church and Freemasonry. Apples and oranges. One is based upon obligations to God, the other obligations to his fellow man. It's like comparing the Church to college football. The latter is a fine activity, and though imprecations to deity are made by many fans, football really isn't a religion. Really. Even in Alabama.

"Remarkable similarities between Scouting and Freemasonry: secret handshakes, initiation, oaths, ranks, signs, prayer..."

Yes, and the Church adopted "Scouting".

"You added in bold a comment about bringing people together from all over the world. If the point was to indicate that Freemasonry doesn't, . . ."

No, I did not mean that Freemasonary doesn't.

My point was that The Church does.

"One is based upon obligations to God, . . ."

I believe for most LDS that I know, one of the ways to be of service to God is to be of service to man.

Just a thought.

Not trying to be argumentative:p

Bro. Rudick