How do Mormons believe that they achieve salvation?

[chitchat]

I've been wondering what Mormons believe as I'm trying to learn more.

[Jenamarie]

Through the Atoneing Sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

[HiJolly]

I've been wondering what Mormons believe as I'm trying to learn more.

We believe that we are saved if we believe in Jesus Christ as our Savior and Redeemer, and signify that belief by being baptized, receiving the Holy Ghost, and following what He told us we should do.

I suggest you read this, especially the links in the third paragraph "here" and "here".

Approaching Mormon Doctrine - LDS Newsroom

HiJolly

[chitchat]

Thanks. I am reading the two links you shared and may comment more once I read further through them.

It appears from the links that the teaching of Joseph Smith (as given in the book of Mormon) supercedes the teaching in the Bible to a large extent.

I say that because I see very few Biblical scriptures referenced, but a preponderance of verses from the book of Mormon.

It appears that to be a Mormon, you have to have complete faith that Joseph Smith was a prophet and also view the book of Mormon as being equal in value or importance to the Bible.

Am I understanding that correctly?

I realize that the intent of the person writing the words in those two links may not be to diminish Christ, but the emphasis seems to be far more strongly centered on Joseph Smith.

That is confusing to me. Am I misunderstanding?

Also, Rev. 22:18 warns believers not to add to or take from anything in the Bible. I'm amazed that Joseph Smith would do such a thing in good conscience.

Are there any scriptures in the Bible that foretold the coming of Joseph Smith or the new revelations that he would share?

I'm trying to understand.

[NeuroTypical]

It appears from the links that the teaching of Joseph Smith (as given in the book of Mormon) supercedes the teaching in the Bible to a large extent.

Compliments, not supercedes. The Bible is a witness of Christ. The Book of Mormon is a similar witness - it points to the Bible and says "Yes! Like that!"

It appears that to be a Mormon, you have to have complete faith that Joseph Smith was a prophet and also view the book of Mormon as being equal in value or importance to the Bible.

Pretty good summary. We figure Joseph Smith was chosen by God to restore Christ's church, as it had fallen into apostacy. We figure the BoM is exactly what it claims to be - scripture documenting people who left Jerusalem and came to the Americas - who were also visited by Christ.

If Joseph Smith is a fraud, or if the BoM is a lie, then there is no reason to be Mormon.

Also, Rev. 22:18 warns believers not to add to or take from anything in the Bible. I'm amazed that Joseph Smith would do such a thing in good conscience.

Well, Deuteronomy 4:2 says "Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it," so by that thinking, the New Testament doesn't belong in our Bible. But basically, we don't consider the BoM as 'adding' anything to the gospel. It's another witness OF the gospel. And the gospel is unchanging: God exists, Christ is His Son, and through Christ's atonement, we can return to God.

Are there any scriptures in the Bible that foretold the coming of Joseph Smith or the new revelations that he would share?

Sure. Ezekiel 37:19 talks about the BoM and Bible becoming one.

We figure Isaiah 2:2 plainly prophecies of the Temple we built in Salt Lake City, UT.

There are many others. None of them plainly say "In 2010, thou shalt know that Mormons are correct", but they all provide evidence to our claims.

Thanks for asking!

LM

[chitchat]

Thanks for answering, LM. Okay, bear with me as I'm trying to see this.

You said, "We figure Joseph Smith was chosen by God to restore Christ's church, as it had fallen into apostacy."

What was this apostasy that the church had fallen into and that Joseph Smith took note of?

You know that the Protestant Reformation came about due to concerns about the Catholic church. Is this what concerned JS?

Or was there something going on within the church in early America that concerned JS?

Also, do you know if any of the Founding Fathers of our country or the signers of the Declaration of Independence were Mormon?

[Dravin]

The Book of Mormon was printed and made available on March 26th 1830, and the church didn't exists as legal entity until April 6th of that same year. Most of the Founding Fathers were dead by then. I know Madison was kicking around until 1836, don't know about any others off the top of me head.

But no, no Founding Fathers joined the Church in mortality, at least that I'm aware of.

[NeuroTypical]

What was this apostasy that the church had fallen into and that Joseph Smith took note of?

Here's our take on it:

Amos 8:11-12 speaks of it: "a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord. … They shall … seek the word of the Lord, and shall not find it”

2 Thessalonians 2:3 speaks of it when discussing the 2nd coming: "for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first"

Our Gospel Principles manual says this about it:

"After the Savior ascended into heaven, men changed the ordinances and doctrines that He and His Apostles had established. Because of apostasy, there was no direct revelation from God. The true Church was no longer on the earth. Men organized different churches that claimed to be true but taught conflicting doctrines. There was much confusion and contention over religion. The Lord had foreseen these conditions of apostasy, saying there would be “a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord. … They shall … seek the word of the Lord, and shall not find it”

So the issue came because the apostles were martyred. There are indications that Christ intended the church organization to continue after His death. The Bible records a couple of instances of old apostles dying, and new apostles being called to replace them. Eventually, all the apostles were killed off, and nobody was left to lead the church. Eventually, the Emperor Constantine decided he was boss fo the church, and Catholicism was born. No disrespect to our Catholic cousins, but we mormons don't buy that story as how Christ wanted things to be. And no disrespect to our Protestant reformer cousins, but we figure that Christ's church, where people were called by laying on of hands by those in authority, doesn't exist there either.

Surely, there have been good Christians since Christ. But His church? We say no.

LM

[chitchat]

That makes it clear. Thanks to you all for respectfully explaining that. Those are very interesting thoughts about the apostasy.

What I'm about to say is not for the purpose of arguing. I'm trying to understand clearly where Mormons stand on this. It is confusing to me. I have no intention of showing disrespect for anyone's right to believe as they do. I am simply trying to understand and see if I see the same things that some here do. It could be that once I understand, that I will.

HiJolly said, "We believe that we are saved if we believe in Jesus Christ as our Savior and Redeemer, and signify that belief by being baptized, receiving the Holy Ghost, and following what He told us we should do."

Are you saying that in order to be saved (salvation and deliverance from our sins), we must make the decision to believe in Christ, be baptized, and obey His commandments?

The reason I ask is that Protestants believe they must also do those things as followers of Christ, but Christ's sacrifice on the cross was sufficient enough to completely cover our sins and give us salvation. What we actually do or don't do does not gain us salvation per se outside of believing that Christ is our Savior.

In other words, sadly, we are frail humans and will continue sinning and fighting sin after we are saved by Christ. He alone saves us, and it happens not by our own actions. Nothing we do can wash away our own sins. Christ is omnipotent and sovereign.

For a Protestant to think that anything he does will gain him salvation - cheapens the sacrifice Christ made on the cross. If all I have to do to gain salvation is believe, be baptized, and follow the Commandments, then why would Christ have had to die on the cross?

Ephesians 2:8 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."

God even gives us the faith we need.

I'm wondering if this is where some get the idea that Mormons believe in "works". I am not sure that Mormons actually believe that because you sing the great hymns written by Protestants and as such, it would appear that we think similarly, but I'm confused and trying to understand better.

Do you believe that you must be baptized and follow the Commandments in order to be saved?

[YoungMormonRoyalist]

Thanks. I am reading the two links you shared and may comment more once I read further through them.

It appears from the links that the teaching of Joseph Smith (as given in the book of Mormon) supercedes the teaching in the Bible to a large extent.

I say that because I see very few Biblical scriptures referenced, but a preponderance of verses from the book of Mormon.

It appears that to be a Mormon, you have to have complete faith that Joseph Smith was a prophet and also view the book of Mormon as being equal in value or importance to the Bible.

Am I understanding that correctly?

I realize that the intent of the person writing the words in those two links may not be to diminish Christ, but the emphasis seems to be far more strongly centered on Joseph Smith.

That is confusing to me. Am I misunderstanding?

Also, Rev. 22:18 warns believers not to add to or take from anything in the Bible. I'm amazed that Joseph Smith would do such a thing in good conscience.

Are there any scriptures in the Bible that foretold the coming of Joseph Smith or the new revelations that he would share?

I'm trying to understand.

One should understand two things about the Bible when quoting Revelations 22:18. First, that the New Testament was not organized chronologically in terms of when the separate books were written, but organized in terms of subject, and longest to shortest. First you have the Gospels, the Epistles, and the General Epistles, and the Apocalypse. If you truly understand this and look at when each book was written you'll find that the Gospel of John was written after the Book of Revelations. By almost a twenty year margin. Yet we do not exclude that beautiful Gospel from the scriptures because of John's warning at the end of Revelations.

The warning, which is given in Deuteronomy as well, warns against adding anything to John's revelation concerning the second coming of Christ. In fact, in the Book of Mormon, Nephi receives the same vision John had, but admits that he has been told not to write those things in the Book of Mormon, but instead to let John write them.

Secondly, if you take the warning in Deuteronomy the same way most take the one in Revelation then you exclude a whole bunch of scripture. The Sadducee's, the Priests of the Temple in Christ's time didn't believe in the resurrection for this very reason. To them, all the books written after the Books of Moses were false, and because the Books of Moses don't mention a resurrection they didn't believe such a thing existed.

[YoungMormonRoyalist]

That makes it clear. Thanks to you all for respectfully explaining that. Those are very interesting thoughts about the apostasy.

What I'm about to say is not for the purpose of arguing. I'm trying to understand clearly where Mormons stand on this. It is confusing to me. I have no intention of showing disrespect for anyone's right to believe as they do. I am simply trying to understand and see if I see the same things that some here do. It could be that once I understand, that I will.

HiJolly said, "We believe that we are saved if we believe in Jesus Christ as our Savior and Redeemer, and signify that belief by being baptized, receiving the Holy Ghost, and following what He told us we should do."

Are you saying that in order to be saved (salvation and deliverance from our sins), we must make the decision to believe in Christ, be baptized, and obey His commandments?

The reason I ask is that Protestants believe they must also do those things as followers of Christ, but Christ's sacrifice on the cross was sufficient enough to completely cover our sins and give us salvation. What we actually do or don't do does not gain us salvation per se outside of believing that Christ is our Savior.

In other words, sadly, we are frail humans and will continue sinning and fighting sin after we are saved by Christ. He alone saves us, and it happens not by our own actions. Nothing we do can wash away our own sins. Christ is omnipotent and sovereign.

For a Protestant to think that anything he does will gain him salvation - cheapens the sacrifice Christ made on the cross. If all I have to do to gain salvation is believe, be baptized, and follow the Commandments, then why would Christ have had to die on the cross?

Ephesians 2:8 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."

God even gives us the faith we need.

I'm wondering if this is where some get the idea that Mormons believe in "works". I am not sure that Mormons actually believe that because you sing the great hymns written by Protestants and as such, it would appear that we think similarly, but I'm confused and trying to understand better.

Do you believe that you must be baptized and follow the Commandments in order to be saved?

The difficulty with quoting Paul is that his words change depending on the location, and who he was talking to. In some epistles he says things like "Stablish you in every good word and work" (2 Thessalonians, 2:17) or "That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitfal in every good work..." ( Colossians 1:10).

Does that discount Ephesians? Absolutely not. One has to take into consideration who Paul was addressing his words to. In Ephesians he was talking to Jews. Who, in Paul's eyes, were doing a lot of the works found in the bible (Reading from the Talmud, Torah, Circumcision, etc etc), but were not backing it up with the faith in Jesus Christ that was needed. Unto a group of Gentiles, Paul is very quick to tell them that their newfound belief in Jesus needs to be backed up by doing Christ's work.

I think Protestants and Mormons agree a lot more than they actually know, and get caught up in our different definitions of ''saved,'' ''works,'' and ''faith.'' For the Mormon, true faith, and true works are the same thing (I called it FORKS). If one has faith that Jesus is the Christ, then he will do his works. These works include baptism, for we follow Christ's words : Except a man be born of water, and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God. This sign is an outside symbol of what we already believe on the inside. Abraham was circumcised in obedience to God's commands, it was a symbol of his faith in God (Romans 4:11), the same is with baptism.

Baptism would have no power, it would merely be a bath, if it wasn't sanctified by Christ's suffering, death, and resurrection. Mormons believe that nothing we do in this life will make up for the mistakes that we've made. Christ said "If ye love me, keep my commandments." We show our love for Christ by having faith in his atonement, we have faith in his charity by doing charity unto others in his name, we show faith and belief in his resurrection by being buried and risen in the waters of baptism. All these things are outside symbols of what is happening on the inside. The true believer will do Christ's works. Ultimately, after all this, we still need Christ's sacrifice. We cannot pay our debt ourselves, no matter how many works we do, and that Christ will pay the rest, that his taking upon himself of our sins will save us.

This is the Mormon belief, that ultimately, struggle as we will, Christ will come save us.

[HiJolly]

HiJolly said, "We believe that we are saved if we believe in Jesus Christ as our Savior and Redeemer, and signify that belief by being baptized, receiving the Holy Ghost, and following what He told us we should do."

Are you saying that in order to be saved (salvation and deliverance from our sins), we must make the decision to believe in Christ, be baptized, and obey His commandments?

Yes, in a nutshell, that *is* the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

The reason I ask is that Protestants believe they must also do those things as followers of Christ, but Christ's sacrifice on the cross was sufficient enough to completely cover our sins and give us salvation. What we actually do or don't do does not gain us salvation per se outside of believing that Christ is our Savior.

I think there is a lot of nuance in what Protestants believe. Here' what the Bible actually says:

• Mark 10: 23-25

  23 ¶ And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!

  24 And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!

  25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

• Matt. 19: 23-24

  23 ¶ Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.

  24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

• Luke 18: 24-25

  24 And when Jesus saw that he was very sorrowful, he said, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!

  25 For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle’s eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

• Matt. 5: 20

  20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

• Matt. 7: 21

  21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

• Matt. 18: 3

  3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

• John 3: 5

  5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

• Acts 14: 22

  22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

• James 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. 23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: 24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was. 25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed. 26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man’s religion is vain. 27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

In other words, sadly, we are frail humans and will continue sinning and fighting sin after we are saved by Christ. He alone saves us, and it happens not by our own actions. Nothing we do can wash away our own sins. Christ is omnipotent and sovereign.

Right, we totally agree with that. We have to accept the Savior's Atonement, we cannot pay the price ourselves. Although we do think Christ serves the Father in all things. You probably agree with that.

For a Protestant to think that anything he does will gain him salvation - cheapens the sacrifice Christ made on the cross. If all I have to do to gain salvation is believe, be baptized, and follow the Commandments, then why would Christ have had to die on the cross?

That's not really our thinking, and I know some Protestants that don't believe that either.

Ephesians 2:8 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."

God even gives us the faith we need.

Exactly. Faith is a gift from God, Joseph taught that. We believe, and as we enact our belief then God grants us faith. True principle!

I'm wondering if this is where some get the idea that Mormons believe in "works". I am not sure that Mormons actually believe that because you sing the great hymns written by Protestants and as such, it would appear that we think similarly, but I'm confused and trying to understand better.

Do you believe that you must be baptized and follow the Commandments in order to be saved?

Sure. It's biblical!

HiJolly

[Elgama]

for me these scriptures describe the essence of Faith, Repentance, Baptism and the Holy Ghost

i Alma 19: 33 And it came to pass that when Ammon arose he also administered unto them, and also all the servants of Lamoni; and they did all declare unto the people the selfsame thing—that their hearts had been changed; that they had no more desire to do evil.

and

Proverbs 24:

1 Be not thou envious against evil men, neither desire to be with them.

2 For their heart studieth destruction, and their lips talk of mischief.

3 Through wisdom is an house builded; and by understanding it is established:

4 And by knowledge shall the chambers be filled with all precious and pleasant riches.

5 A wise +man is strong; yea, a man of knowledge increaseth strength.

If you convert and take upon the name of Jesus Christ - you don't become perfect but it should be your overwhelming desire to become one with Him, without Him we are nothing, He gives commandments to keep us safe, Paul describes how we need to be one with Christ and each other that does not happen without service. I personally do not buy into the ooh I have faith so I can Eat, Drink and be Merry

The Lord counselled against it in Luke 12

16 And he spake a parable unto them, saying, The ground of a certain rich man brought forth plentifully:

17 And he thought within himself, saying, What shall I do, because I have no room where to abestow my fruits?

18 And he said, This will I do: I will pull down my barns, and build greater; and there will I bestow all my fruits and my goods.

19 And I will say to my soul, aSoul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, beat, drink, and be merry.

20 But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy asoul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?

The Scripture in Revelations says 22: 18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall aadd unto these things, God shall add unto him the bplagues that are written in this book:

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the abook of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

I agree we should at no time add to scripture, nowhere does it say God has finished giving us scripture or that He will not add to it, also vast majority of the Book of Mormon was written by the time this verse was so doesn't apply to it anyway.

Luke 12:

[Just_A_Guy]

To add an example to HiJolly's excellent post:

If I am drowning, and HiJolly throws me a rope, and a bystander yells at me to "grab it!"--does that advice in any way detracting from HiJolly's skill, bravery, or quick thinking?

Once I am back on dry land, would anyone argue that I had actually saved myself through my own works?

[chitchat]

Wow, great points all of you. Thanks for taking time to share.

[mnn727]

One thing I need to point out is that there is a difference between Salvation (which is a free gift to all mankind) and Exaltation (which is predicated upon us following Gods commandments - including baptism)

I really wish that we all would use the two terms correctly.

[Guest]

Chitchat, when you're ready, expand your reading to the Plan of Salvation - especially the 3 degrees of glory. It gives more perspective on how "works" come into play in our exaltation.

[Faded]

Also, Rev. 22:18 warns believers not to add to or take from anything in the Bible. I'm amazed that Joseph Smith would do such a thing in good conscience.

That is probably the most abused verse in all of scripture. That may be what you were told the verse says, but it doesn't mean what you're thinking at all.

[19] And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

"...The book if This Prophecy..." What prophecy is being referenced? There are hundreds of different prophecies in the Bible, given over a span of more than 1000 years. So which book of which prophecy? Answer: The Revelation of John. That is "the book of this prophecy" being referenced.

But anyone who adamantly insists that Revelations 22:19 is referring to the whole Bible, really doesn't understand where the Bible came from.

The Revelation of John was almost definitely written around 68 or 69 AD. The following books were written at a later date than that date:

The Gospel of Matthew

The Gospel of Luke

The Gospel of John

Acts of the Apostles

Epistle to the Hebrews

First Epistle of John

Second Epistle of John

Third Epistle of John

So if We interpret Relations 22:19 to say, "Everything that can be written has been written, there can't be anymore." Then a whole lot of Christians need to tear all of those works out of the Bible for their violation of that particular verse.

Some scholars point to evidence that Revelations was written in 95 AD, but that assumption is pretty shaky. Even if it is true, the Gospel of John and most of the epistles of John would still have to be thrown out for being written after 95 AD, but it would shorten the list of invalidated New Testament books somewhat.

It's important to note that the Bible wasn't compiled until more than 300 years after the writing of the Revelation of John. So it would seem a bit of a stretch to assume that this passage is referring to a compilation of books (the Bible) that didn't exist for another three centuries. When compiling the Bible, the books were ordered by category. Gospels, History, Epistles of Paul sorted by length, Epistles of the other Apostles and the final category was for the Revelation of John, which didn't fit into any of those categories very well. The Revelation was also placed last because there was some debate over whether or not to include it in what became the Bible.

I will always be puzzled as to how people can put forward such an interpretation of Revelations 22:19. It is promoting blind ignorance and misinformation, while ignoring a very long list of facts. That is not the fault of the OP, but somebody was being a bit dishonest (or even ignorant) when they pointed out that passage of scripture and explained it to mean, "No more word of God."

Edited February 6, 2010 by Faded

[billy2]

How are the Mormons saved from their sins, and what must they do to be forgiven? Let’s take a look their scriptures, prophets, and teachers.

First of all, the Book of Mormons says,

“And I say unto you again that he cannot save them in their sins; for I cannot deny his word, and he hath said that no unclean thing can inherit the kingdom of heaven; therefore, how can ye be saved, except ye inherit the kingdom of heaven? Therefore, ye cannot be saved in your sins” (The Book of Mormon, Alma 11:37). (All underlines in these quotes have been added for emphasis.)

This is reasonable, since God does not want us to sin against him and we cannot ignore God’s warnings against sin.

Second, the Book of Mormon says, “For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do,” (2 Nephi 25:23).

Now this is where we run into a problem. We have to ask what it means to be “saved after all we can do?” How much must we do in order to become saved? The representatives of the Mormon Church give us the answer.

“On the same basis men cannot be saved in their sins (Alma 11:37); the Lord has ordained the laws by which salvation and all good things come, and until obedience prepares the way, the promised blessings are withheld (D&C 88:21-24; 130:20-21; 132:5.). Men can no more be saved without obedience than they can be healed without faith. All things operate by law; blessings result from obedience to law and are withheld when there is no obedience” (BYU Professor Daniel H. Ludlow, A Companion to Your Study of the New Testament, p.222).

The 13th President of the Mormon Church, Ezra Taft Benson, said, “What is meant by ‘after all we can do’? ‘After all we can do’ includes extending our best effort. ‘After all we can do’ includes living His commandments. ‘After all we can do’ includes loving our fellowmen and praying for those who regard us as their adversary. ‘After all we can do’ means clothing the naked, feeding the hungry, visiting the sick and giving ‘succor [to] those who stand in need of [our] succor’ (Mosiah 4:15)-remembering that what we do unto one of the least of God's children, we do unto Him (see Matthew 25:34-40; D&C 42:38). ‘After all we can do’ means leading chaste, clean, pure lives, being scrupulously honest in all our dealings and treating others the way we would want to be treated” (The Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p.354. Brackets in original).

“But all of these blessings are ours on one condition, and this is spoken of by Nephi, when he said: For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, [but mark you this condition,] after all we can do” (Harold B. Lee, Conference Reports, April 1956, p.111. Brackets and italics in original).

So, according to Mormonism to be “saved after all we can do” means to extend your best effort, live his commandments, love fellow men, pray for adversaries, cloth the naked, feed the hungry, visit the sick, lead chaste, clean lives, and be honest.

This is a tall order, but does it really mean that you have to do all these things and others to be saved in Mormonism? Sure it does. But, is it possible for Mormons to do all of this? According to the Book of Mormon it is.

“And it came to pass that I, Nephi, said unto my father: I will go and do the things which the Lord hath commanded, for I know that the Lord giveth no commandments unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them” (The Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 3:7).

Okay, so the Mormon has to keep the commandments to be saved and has no excuse for not doing them. In other words, Mormonism teaches that the Mormon must keep all the commandments all the time to be saved. But that isn’t all. The Mormon must also deny himself of all ungodliness in order for God’s grace to be sufficient.

“Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ; and if by the grace of God ye are perfect in Christ, ye can in nowise deny the power of God” (The Book of Mormon, Moroni 10:32).

Notice that God’s grace is sufficient for you after you deny yourself of all ungodliness. That is a tremendously tall order -- that is impossible. Who do you know, including yourself, who has denied himself of all ungodliness? Not most ungodliness, not some ungodliness, ALL! Remember, you must “deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you.” This is a hopelessly impossible command. No one can deny himself of all ungodliness. But, just in case you believe you can deny yourself of all ungodliness then that means you aren’t sinning any more. But, according to the Bible, if you say you aren’t sinning anymore, then you are self-deceived. 1 John 1:8 says, “If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us.”

Obviously, this is a difficult teaching. But, there’s more. In Mormonism, repentance from sin must be complete and permanent. The Fourth President of the Mormon Church, Wilford Woodruff, said...

“And what is repentance? The forsaking of sin. The man who repents, if he be a swearer, swears no more; or a thief, steal no more; he turns away from all former sins and commits them no more. It is not repentance to say, I repent today, and then steal tomorrow; that is the repentance of the world, which is displeasing in the sight of God” (Teachings of the Presidents of the Church: Wilford Woodruff, pp.71-72).

Okay, so true repentance means that you don't commit any of the sins that you have repented of. What would happen if you did commit one of the sins from which you repented? What does Mormonism have to say about that?

“The miracle of forgiveness is available to all of those who turn from their evil doings and return no more, because the Lord has said in a revelation to us in our day: ‘Go your ways and sin no more; but unto that soul who sinneth [meaning again] shall the former sins return, saith the Lord your God’ (D&C 82:7). Have that in mind, all of you who may be troubled with a burden of sin” (The Teachings of Harold B. Lee, p.120. Harold B. Lee was the 11th President of the LDS Church. Brackets in original.)

“Those who receive forgiveness and then repeat the sin are held accountable for their former sins” (Gospel Principles, 1997, p.253).

“20. In order to remain forgiven we must never commit the sin again” (Mormon Missionary Discussion F, Uniform System for Teaching Families. 1981, p.36).

So in the Mormon view of repentance, once you have repented of the sin, if you commit it again, all of your former sins return to you. In other words, you have to be perfect. Is this a gospel of good news or of impossible expectations?

Synopsis of Mormon Salvation

You cannot be saved in your sins, (The Book of Mormon, Alma 11:37).

By grace you are saved, after all you can do, (2 Nephi 25:23).

You must give your best, (The Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p.354.)

You must deny yourselves of all ungodliness, (Moroni 10:32).

Turn from all former sins and commit them no more, (Teachings of the Presidents of the Church: Wilford Woodruff, pp.71-72).

If you commit any past sin again, the former sins return, (D&C 82:7).

Therefore, in order to remain forgiven you must never commit the sin again, (Mormon Missionary Discussion F, Uniform System for Teaching Families. 1981, p.36).

Response to the Mormon Gospel

Is this good news? Is this even doable? How can such a teaching you have to keep the law, repent of every sin, and never commit them again in order to be saved, be good news? It isn’t! What a heavy yoke the Mormon must carry in order to have his sins forgiven. Jesus said, “Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest. 29 “Take My yoke upon you, and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart; and you shall find rest for your souls,” (Matt. 11:28-29). If you come to Jesus, you’re supposed to have rest. Is "rest" tyring to keep all the law in order to be forgiven? No, it isn’t. Again, this doesn’t mean it is okay to sin (Rom. 6:1-2), but it does mean that we rest, we trust completely in what Jesus did on the cross (1 Pet. 2:24), how he fulfilled all the Law (1 Pet. 2:22), and we trust by faith in what he did (Rom. 5:1). That is the only way to obey Christ’s command to rest in him.

Paul has a warning to those who think that they can combine works with grace.

"For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them,” (Gal. 3:10).

James tells us the same thing

“For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all,” (James 2:10).

Jesus condemns those who combine faith and works.

"Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23 “And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness,’" (Matt. 7:22-23).

Why would Jesus condemn people who believed in him and did good works in his name? Jesus called them sinners and told them to get away from him. Why? Simple, because those people were appealing to their salvation based on their faith and their works. To do that is to say that Jesus didn’t finish everything that was necessary for our salvation. It means that we have to do something. It means we add our works to Christ’s work. This is an insult to God! Our works are filthy rags before God (Isaiah 64:6). This is why salvation is by faith, not by faith and works.

John 3:16, "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.”

Rom. 3:28, "For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.”

Rom. 4:5, "But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness,"

Rom. 9:30, "What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith."

Rom. 11:6, "But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace."

The Mormons have an impossible gospel that they cannot live up to, that will lead them to be accursed of Jesus, and which violates justification by faith. Can the Mormon be saved following the Mormon gospel? No, he cannot. He needs to find rest in Jesus by being justified by faith, not faith and works.

[omega0401]

How are the Mormons saved from their sins, and what must they do to be forgiven?

Billy, if you are sincere in learning then please read this link... Have You Been Saved?

You'll find a lot of answers there.

[NeuroTypical]

Billy2 has mastered the skills of cut-and-paste, but not the honesty it takes to properly cite another's work?

He's posting, word for word, the work of the anti-mormon site CARM.

And he's passing it off as his own work.

Billy? You want to claim you wrote the piece on Carm? Or is 'lying for the lord' more your thing?

LM

[omega0401]

He's posting, word for word, the work of the anti-mormon site CARM.

Another Anti-Mormon trying to sew seeds of doubt?

All Anti-Mormons should take a page out of their own bibles and teach the way Jesus taught. He didn't go to the Pharisees or any other group and teach them that their doctrine is wrong.

What Jesus did was teach others what He believes in. In other words, he didn't go looking to attack other faiths. I believe he's teaching us the Christian way of doing missionary work.

[Guest]

Another Anti-Mormon trying to sew seeds of doubt?

All Anti-Mormons should take a page out of their own bibles and teach the way Jesus taught. He didn't go to the Pharisees or any other group and teach them that their doctrine is wrong.

What Jesus did was teach others what He believes in. In other words, he didn't go looking to attack other faiths. I believe he's teaching us the Christian way of doing missionary work.

It gets old after a while, doesn't it?

And that's why I really really love PrisonChaplain.

[cs_car]

That makes it clear. Thanks to you all for respectfully explaining that. Those are very interesting thoughts about the apostasy.

What I'm about to say is not for the purpose of arguing. I'm trying to understand clearly where Mormons stand on this. It is confusing to me. I have no intention of showing disrespect for anyone's right to believe as they do. I am simply trying to understand and see if I see the same things that some here do. It could be that once I understand, that I will.

HiJolly said, "We believe that we are saved if we believe in Jesus Christ as our Savior and Redeemer, and signify that belief by being baptized, receiving the Holy Ghost, and following what He told us we should do."

Are you saying that in order to be saved (salvation and deliverance from our sins), we must make the decision to believe in Christ, be baptized, and obey His commandments?

The reason I ask is that Protestants believe they must also do those things as followers of Christ, but Christ's sacrifice on the cross was sufficient enough to completely cover our sins and give us salvation. What we actually do or don't do does not gain us salvation per se outside of believing that Christ is our Savior.

In other words, sadly, we are frail humans and will continue sinning and fighting sin after we are saved by Christ. He alone saves us, and it happens not by our own actions. Nothing we do can wash away our own sins. Christ is omnipotent and sovereign.

For a Protestant to think that anything he does will gain him salvation - cheapens the sacrifice Christ made on the cross. If all I have to do to gain salvation is believe, be baptized, and follow the Commandments, then why would Christ have had to die on the cross?

Ephesians 2:8 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."

God even gives us the faith we need.

I'm wondering if this is where some get the idea that Mormons believe in "works". I am not sure that Mormons actually believe that because you sing the great hymns written by Protestants and as such, it would appear that we think similarly, but I'm confused and trying to understand better.

Do you believe that you must be baptized and follow the Commandments in order to be saved?

We believe that Christ died on the cross so that all mankind may be resurrected and thus saved from physical death. (body reunited with spirit) The second part of His sacrifice is His atonement in the Garden of Gethsemane where Christ atoned for the sins of all mankind which saves our souls from spiritual death along with our own repentance for our sins. The resurrection of the body is a gift to all, no matter their faith or works. The Atonement, through which we may gain eternal salvation, is conditional on our works and repentance. In this way we believe that Christ satisfied the demands of justice, extending us mercy and allowing us to repent. Whether or not we repent is our own choice. The Atonement has already been performed by Christ, it is up to us whether or not we will utilize it and repent so that we may achieve salvation. In this way, we can only achieve salvation through the atonement of Jesus Christ.

As far as the grace of God is concerned,

"Grace is a gift from Heavenly Father given through His Son, Jesus Christ. The word grace, as used in the scriptures, refers primarily to enabling power and spiritual healing offered through the mercy and love of Jesus Christ.

Everyone on earth experiences physical death. Through the grace of Jesus Christ, all will be resurrected and will live forever (see 1 Corinthians 15:20–22; 2 Nephi 9:6–13).

Because of personal choices, everyone also experiences the effects of sin (see 1 John 1:8–10; Mosiah 16:4). These effects are called spiritual death. No one can return to the presence of God without divine grace. Through the Atonement, we all can be forgiven of our sins; we can become clean before God. To receive this enabling power, we must obey the gospel of Jesus Christ, which includes having faith in Him, repenting of our sins, being baptized, receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost, and trying to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ for the rest of our lives (see Ephesians 2:8–9; James 2:17–22; 2 Nephi 25:23; 31:20)."

Sorry for the long post, but all in all, I guess to directly answer your questions.

1) yes, we are saying that in order to be saved spiritually, we must make the decision to believe in Christ, be baptized, and obey His commandments.

2) We believe that without Jesus Christ's atoning sacrifice we cannot be saved, but that we are not saved by grace alone, we must repent and have good works--believing is not enough (although I would pose the question that if we truly believe in Jesus Christ, would this not motivate us to have good works?)

[baellison]

this is an old post im responding to of yours, but i would like to see where you are now in your choice to join the church. not only do i find the book of mormon a big fat no no in the bible but in order to be a true prophet of jesus christ all your callings must be true and stand the test of time and there are just lists of things that j smith said would happen and did not and in the bible this is the fake prophets we are warned about that will fool many. im just interested in hearing your story. thx:)

btw ive been investigating for a while now and doubt is still there so i will continue to search through prayer and studying.