What truth is or can be known?

[Traveler]

I understand that we must live by faith. But as I read many posts that cause me to wonder??? Is there something, anything that can be proven that anyone knows to be true and that it can be proven - especially without the "opinions" of so called experts?

The Traveler

[RipplecutBuddha]

1+1=2

It's been true since before the earth was in existence, let alone before man was placed here. It continues to be true now. It will remain a truth through the eternities, long after we are finished with our learning here.

No matter how you choose to represent this simple equasion, regardless of the language, or physical objects that could be used to represent each figure, it still remains a truth, and there is no other proper answer to the question.

1.99999999 is wrong just as 2.00000001 is wrong. They're both very very close, but still wrong.

Because we can understand and accept this simple mathematical formula as a reliable, if not eternal truth, we can then begin to stretch our understanding to other, and more significant, eternal truths.

Find a foundation, then build upon it. A foundation based upon truth will withstand all that comes against it.

[Blackmarch]

I understand that we must live by faith. But as I read many posts that cause me to wonder??? Is there something, anything that can be proven that anyone knows to be true and that it can be proven - especially without the "opinions" of so called experts?

The Traveler

Truth is a fleeting thing, 'tis rare to be found... something held absolute till one day to be turned upside down.

[Hemidakota]

I understand that we must live by faith. But as I read many posts that cause me to wonder??? Is there something, anything that can be proven that anyone knows to be true and that it can be proven - especially without the "opinions" of so called experts?

The Traveler

The Ark...it stands to this day and can be seen.

[Hemidakota]

I understand that we must live by faith. But as I read many posts that cause me to wonder??? Is there something, anything that can be proven that anyone knows to be true and that it can be proven - especially without the "opinions" of so called experts?

The Traveler

The Ark...it stands to this day and can be seen.

[Jamie123]

The Ark...it stands to this day and can be seen.

I've often heard that there was some "evidence of the Ark" on Mt. Ararat, but I understand it's been pretty much discredited, even by most Biblical literalists.

[Jamie123]

1+1=2

It's been true since before the earth was in existence, let alone before man was placed here. It continues to be true now. It will remain a truth through the eternities, long after we are finished with our learning here.

No matter how you choose to represent this simple equasion, regardless of the language, or physical objects that could be used to represent each figure, it still remains a truth, and there is no other proper answer to the question.

1.99999999 is wrong just as 2.00000001 is wrong. They're both very very close, but still wrong.

Because we can understand and accept this simple mathematical formula as a reliable, if not eternal truth, we can then begin to stretch our understanding to other, and more significant, eternal truths.

Find a foundation, then build upon it. A foundation based upon truth will withstand all that comes against it.

The French philosopher Rene Descartes suggested that mathematical truths could be definitely "known" to be true, but he saw one problem: Sometimes we add up numbers wrongly, so how do we know that we don't always add them up wrongly? How do we know that 1+1 isn't really 3?

Bit worrying really....

[marts1]

There are many evidences of biblical history. Its just that to go and see them with your own eyes would be very expensive.

[Jamie123]

There are many evidences of biblical history. Its just that to go and see them with your own eyes would be very expensive.

You don't have to travel to see all of them. Many secular historians mentioned Jesus and His early followers. (Try reading Tacitus' Annals, Book XV.) Josephus even mentions Jesus was a "miracle worker". This of course doesn't prove he was one, but it does prove that miracle stories date from that time - they weren't cooked up hundreds of years later like some people would have us believe.

[RipplecutBuddha]

The French philosopher Rene Descartes suggested that mathematical truths could be definitely "known" to be true, but he saw one problem: Sometimes we add up numbers wrongly, so how do we know that we don't always add them up wrongly? How do we know that 1+1 isn't really 3?

Bit worrying really....

It's only worrying if you assume that our current understanding of the universe is absolutely correct and complete.

This would be the same in my mind as saying that the understanding of our intellects determines our reality. To use an example, because people once thought the earth was flat, then that would mean that it really was.

The universe is what it is, independant of our understanding of it. As we gain a greater understanding of the rules it must follow, and the laws involved in the behavior of matter, the more we understand that there are some things that simply must be true and unchanging; else the universe would not keep itself as orderly as it is.

Of course I could be wrong, it's happened before.

[marts1]

I recall it being said that the reception of the Spirit is a stronger reality then seeing an angel. Personaly I can agree with that statement. For years I could not see much when seeing nature around me, but after I finally made some life changes for the better, I can now see proof of God everywhere.

[Traveler]

1+1=2

It's been true since before the earth was in existence, let alone before man was placed here. It continues to be true now. It will remain a truth through the eternities, long after we are finished with our learning here.

No matter how you choose to represent this simple equasion, regardless of the language, or physical objects that could be used to represent each figure, it still remains a truth, and there is no other proper answer to the question.

1.99999999 is wrong just as 2.00000001 is wrong. They're both very very close, but still wrong.

Because we can understand and accept this simple mathematical formula as a reliable, if not eternal truth, we can then begin to stretch our understanding to other, and more significant, eternal truths.

Find a foundation, then build upon it. A foundation based upon truth will withstand all that comes against it.

Your post is rather interesting - as a student of mathematics I was quite surprised to sit in an advanced math theory class in college and discover that in the full understanding of the binary operation of addition that there are conditions in which 1+1 does not= 2. This can be demonstrated with the most elementary integer number theory as well as complex number theory.

There is a story about Christopher Columbus at a banquet where a number of critics chided Christopher indicating his accomplishment of discovery of the new continent could have been done by anyone. Christopher then challenged everyone to balance an egg on its small end so it would not fall over. Several tried but it was quickly determined that such a task was impossible. Christopher took an egg and smashed it on its end and then remarked that their thoughts of what was possible and impossible were the thinking of fools. Then he remarked that now he had showed them how it can be done that it was not a remarkable task any fool could do it.

In my work I will advise companies that anything that can be measured can be modified and improved. But if it cannot be measured there is no direct method to alter it or control it. In our world it is rather interesting that most “things” are not really measured accurately and thus our view of things is inaccurate.

Perhaps this topic needs to be discussed in more detail but I will submit that in our mortal physical experience there is a most strange phenomenon about knowing things. As much as we may love the physical sciences I submit that the things that have most deceived man are the things we think we are measuring and that in fact the only things we can know for certainty are things that no one can measure.

I am wondering if others pondering these thoughts will come to the same conclusion I have.

The Traveler

[Islander]

What is truth, as determined by God, has been and will forever be truth. It should not be confused with man's understanding or awareness of it for many times we state a "fact" only to realize sometime ater that it was not so. Thus what "we believed" to be the truth was not so. Because it was NEVER so.

We can afford to err now and again. Except when we ignore that we are doing so and affirm our belief that we are in fact right.

[JudoMinja]

We have within us an innate ability to tell truth from falsehood. This is the Spirit of Christ, found within every man (referring to mankind), which identifies right and wrong. In many, this sense becomes dulled to the point that they are basically deaf to it, but it is still there. Even a child has this ability and knows, quite simply, that it is wrong to kill. Those who would like to discredit religion call this morals or an evolved state of mind that has aided our survival as a species.

It is like a divining rod, and we must all learn how to use it, how to listen to it. Those who are better at listening draw closer to the truth. "He who has ears to hear, let him hear."

Those who would like to argue for relativity will say that we can each come to our own individual "truths", and that what may be true for one person is not true for all people. Where I would like to redirect this understanding is that we can each come to our own individual UNDERSTANDING of THE truth. While we are all unique and understand things differently, this does not mean that there are an infinite number of truths designed for every individual. There is only one truth. There is only one right.

Ancient cultures around the globe that never interacted with one another all had a belief in some form of God. Their understanding of God and his plan were all very different, but they still believed in a creation, most in some form of Savior, and that our time here is a trial period in which we must choose right from wrong. This is because there IS a God. This is the one universal ultimate truth they all understood. What varied was their understanding of the details.

However, there is only ONE right way- "straight is the path and narrow is the gate". We should not belittle those who do not find it, for man is imperfect and will be judged according to their understanding. Those who have received and understood more truths than others will be held accountable for this understanding.

If you are a seeker of truth, you must be willing to take upon yourself this responsibility. What we understand to be true may someday be upturned in the further progression and pursuit of truth and knowledge, but that does not matter. What matters is that we live according to the truth that we have and that we always seek for more. When we are faithful in the few things we have been given, the Lord will grant us more. It does little good to seek more truth than we can handle, and God understands this. That is why he teaches "line upon line, precept upon precept". If you want more truth, be faithful in the truths you have received, and keep looking for more.

[Traveler]

We have within us an innate ability to tell truth from falsehood. This is the Spirit of Christ, found within every man (referring to mankind), which identifies right and wrong.

......

I am thinking that you are only partly correct. The Spirit of Christ is given to differentiate between good and evil. It is by the power of the Holy Ghost that the truth may be known.

But we are straying a little – The question is – can anyone give an example of something that they know and can prove without valid dispute or question to be true.

The Traveler

[Seminarysnoozer]

Your post is rather interesting - as a student of mathematics I was quite surprised to sit in an advanced math theory class in college and discover that in the full understanding of the binary operation of addition that there are conditions in which 1+1 does not= 2. This can be demonstrated with the most elementary integer number theory as well as complex number theory.

There is a story about Christopher Columbus at a banquet where a number of critics chided Christopher indicating his accomplishment of discovery of the new continent could have been done by anyone. Christopher then challenged everyone to balance an egg on its small end so it would not fall over. Several tried but it was quickly determined that such a task was impossible. Christopher took an egg and smashed it on its end and then remarked that their thoughts of what was possible and impossible were the thinking of fools. Then he remarked that now he had showed them how it can be done that it was not a remarkable task any fool could do it.

In my work I will advise companies that anything that can be measured can be modified and improved. But if it cannot be measured there is no direct method to alter it or control it. In our world it is rather interesting that most “things” are not really measured accurately and thus our view of things is inaccurate.

Perhaps this topic needs to be discussed in more detail but I will submit that in our mortal physical experience there is a most strange phenomenon about knowing things. As much as we may love the physical sciences I submit that the things that have most deceived man are the things we think we are measuring and that in fact the only things we can know for certainty are things that no one can measure.

I am wondering if others pondering these thoughts will come to the same conclusion I have.

The Traveler

I think as soon as one knows the gospel for a certainty they are snatched from the earth, aren't they? I have no idea what it is to know anything for a certainty? I have strong beliefs in certain things.

I think God can measure our understanding. So in that sense all of what we know is measurable by someone. Are there things that you know for certain?

[Seminarysnoozer]

But we are straying a little – The question is – can anyone give an example of something that they know and can prove without valid dispute or question to be true.

The Traveler

I can prove that someone will respond to my statement. As soon as they do, I know that they have.