One Third of the Host of Heaven

[Finrock]

What is 1/3 of infinity?

Regards,

Finrock

[pam]

A lot

[Seminarysnoozer]

Infinity, I suppose. But are you trying to say that the "Host of Heaven" is infinity? What is your understanding of the host of heaven? I think the "host of heaven" that is referring to those involved in the war in heaven was a finite number.

[Vanhin]

"What is a third of the hosts of heaven?", is probably a better question. I don't think a heaven represents an infinity, since clearly there are many heavens and earths that have come and passed.

And the Lord God spake unto Moses, saying: The heavens, they are many, and they cannot be numbered unto man; but they are numbered unto me, for they are mine. And as one earth shall pass away, and the heavens thereof even so shall another come; and there is no end to my works, neither to my words. (Moses 1:37-38)

So perhaps a third of the hosts of the heaven that is associated with the "order" (see Abr. 3:9) that our earth belongs to is a more finite number that can be divided into thirds. One thing for sure, is that there is one constant, each of these "worlds" that come and pass, God is the creator, and by His Son He creates them.

...worlds without number have I created; and I also created them for mine own purpose; and by the Son I created them, which is mine Only Begotten. (Moses 1:33)

Regards,

Vanhin

[marts1]

I also have no idea why a question like that is asked.

[Vanhin]

A lot

I needed a laugh button for that one!

[Justice]

I don't believe the 1/3 is a fraction or numerical value at all.

In the ancient days, they really didn't use fractions. Their measurements were largely in whole numbers. If they needed a smaller value they made a smaller measurement. I think as time went on they developed 1/2 of a measure. There is little evidence, if any, over the wide use of fractions thousands of years ago.

I think the 1/3 refers to there being 3 sides in heaven, and I think those 3 sides are clearly pointed out. So, when speaking of one of the sides, you would say one third, or one side of three.

However, I don't subscribe to the belief of the 3 divisions held by many:

1. Those that sided with Christ

2. Those that sided with Satan

3. Those that did not decide

I don't think those were the divisions. I don't think the 3 divisions are unlike the 3 we have here on earth.

1. Those who have their calling and election sure (Born Again)

2. Those who are trying to have their calling and election sure

3. Those who are not trying to have their calling and election sure (those that side with Satan)

We probably don't want to get into the scriptures, I just wanted to make a point.

Also, I don't think the hosts of heaven are infinite. They are innumerable to us, but not to God.

[john doe]

I agree with Justice, I don't believe it was an actual 1/3 , but rather a third portion of the Children of God who chose to follow Satan.

[MaMeeshkaMow]

I wonder if Satan needed a calculator to see how much came with him because he wouldn't know.

[Finrock]

Hello Seminarysnoozer. It is a pleasure to meet you! :)

Infinity, I suppose. But are you trying to say that the "Host of Heaven" is infinity? What is your understanding of the host of heaven? I think the "host of heaven" that is referring to those involved in the war in heaven was a finite number.

No, I wanted to see if anyone had an argument for the "host of heaven" spoken of in scripture to be infinite.

So far it seems that the consensus is that this existence only represents a finite number of God's children.

Regards,

Finrock

[Finrock]

How does scripture use the word "infinite"? What does it mean in a scriptural context?

Regards,

Finrock

[marts1]

Gospel Principals says one third of the spirits in heaven were cast out.

[Dravin]

How does scripture use the word "infinite"? What does it mean in a scriptural context?

Regards,

Finrock

Word Search: infinite

[Vanhin]

Unlike the word "eternal", in many cases, which is defined in our scriptures with a different meaning than how our contemporary language uses it, infinity seems to mean exactly what we would think it means; boundless, limitless, or endless.

Just a few examples from the link Dravin provided, God's understanding, goodness, and mercy are described as "infinite". I especially like 2 Ne. 25:16, which describes the "atonement" as "infinite for all mankind". There can be no question that the plain meaning is that the atonement covers all of mankind. That the scope of the coverage is endless.

Not to imply that mankind himself does not limit his access to the atonement, they can and they do, but rather that if all men and women who exist, had faith and repented of their sins, then the atonement of Christ sufficiently covers all of them.

That's how I see it.

Regards,

Vanhin

Edited February 18, 2010 by Vanhin

[Just_A_Guy]

From Elder Wilford Woodruff:

We have baptized a great many into this Church and kingdom—not many, certainly, when compared to the twelve hundred million inhabitants of the earth—but a great many have apostatized. What! Latter-day Saints apostatize? Yes. I tell you people will apostatize who have received the holy priesthood and Gospel of Jesus Christ, if they do not honor God, if they do not keep his commandments, obey his laws and humble themselves before the Lord; they are in danger every day of their lives. Look at the number of devils we have, round about us! We have I should say, one hundred to every man, woman and child. One third part of the heavenly host was cast down to the earth with Lucifer, son of the morning, to war against us—which I suppose will number one hundred million devils—and they labor to overthrow all the Saints and the kingdom of God.

--Journal of Discourses 21:126

[miztrniceguy]

I thought it said a "third part", not one third. not necessarily being 3 equal divisions.

[john doe]

Gospel Principals says one third of the spirits in heaven were cast out.

Gospel Principles, while a great book, is not the last word on doctrine.

[CrimsonKairos]

I agree with you there, jd.

As for the three divisions...could be literally any number of possibilities.

1st Part: Unwavering followers of God and Christ

2nd Part: Uncertain at first, took some convincing that Christ should be The One

3rd Part: Rebellious, proud and wanted to take over.

Etc...

[Justice]

I think if you look closley where infinite is used in scripture, mention of Priesthood won't be far away.

Just my take.

[Traveler]

The number 3 shows up on several occasions concerning salvation. Noah had 3 sons saved from the flood. There are 3 types of mankind and there are 3 divisions of glory in the resurrection.

The Traveler

[TheAngelPalmoni]

There is a specific number of intelligences that are spiritually begotten. If the Father was the Christ of the last Plan of Salvation and Christ is the Father of the next of Salvation there is a point in time where one plan ends and another begins... Hence a finite number if intelligences within every plan!! The spiritual creation is over, that was one of the very early stages of the Plan.

That being said I think a 3rd part does just imply a 3 group or something

http://www.angelpalmoni.com/AngelPalmoni/View_The_Scrolls/Pages/PALMONI_files/Media/Progression%20Scroll%20FULL-3/Progression%20Scroll%20FULL-3.jpg?disposition=download

[Finrock]

Good morning Justice. I hope you are doing well today! :)

I think if you look closley where infinite is used in scripture, mention of Priesthood won't be far away.

Just my take.

I guess with my original posting I wanted to establish that God works within periods of time. I think that we can infere from the fact that there was a finite amount of people in heaven prior to the creation even though God says that His creations are without end, that there are periods, or epochs, of creation. I do not believe that all of Heavenly Father's children were present at the counsel in heaven that was for those of us who have been, who are, or who will be residents of this earth.

I also think that we use the word infinite in a too abosolutist fashion when evidence indicates that this use of the word infinite isn't justified scripturally speaking.

I wanted to also ask if you will expand upon the idea of infinite in scripture being associated with the Priesthood?

Regards,

Finrock

[marts1]

Gospel Principles, while a great book, is not the last word on doctrine.

I've been taught otherwise. Could you show me a statement from the church to back that up.

[john doe]

I'm at work right now, so not this minute. In the meantime, could you show me a statement from the church stating that Gospel Principles is the definitive last word on LDS doctrine and that the church is bound to believe every word written in it? Can you tell me who wrote the sentence in question?

[marts1]

Maybe, I'll search as well. That dosen't sound right. I mean maybe I'll find sometime, not maybe I'll search.:)