Why did Jesus talk about Hell more than anyone else?

[JohnOF123]

I was just wondering this today. I'd like to hear some more ideas.

Why is it that Jesus spoke more about Hell than anyone else in the Bible did?

This is where my mind goes when I think about it.

Have you ever heard of Apocalyptic literature? It is symbols and signs and dragons and 10-headed beasts and such things as that. You know what it's all about? It's when the human mind is confronted with the divine reality that is so great, that there is no way the mind can understand it or human language can communicate it.

Now what does that have to do with Hell? The reason why I believe that Jesus spoke on Hell more than anyone else is... in His divinity, His Godhood, He was the only one who could truly grasp the terror of it.

This view might not match others, but I would really be interested in hearing other view points on why Jesus Christ spoke and warned of Hell more than anyone else in the Bible.

Post your ideas.. thx!

(I know this is not everyones favorite topic, but I'd like to figure it out)

Edited February 21, 2010 by JohnOF123

[Guest Dimiras]

They decided to do a biblical reboot shortly after they realized that the old testament was too far-fetched for anyone to buy. They invented the jesus character to serve as a focal point for the rewrite of what is considered to be 'canon'. they do it all the time in star trek.

[pam]

The problem with this question is that we, as LDS, do not believe in hell in the same sense that many mainstream Christians believe in it.

[JohnOF123]

The problem with this question is that we, as LDS, do not believe in hell in the same sense that many mainstream Christians believe in it.

I understand, many here believe in a temporary 1000 year Hell, right? I just found your post to some Texas guy about that. Kinda what made me think about this thread. But either way, even if it is temporary, I'd still like to find out why Jesus spoke of this so much. Honestly, I don't like thinking about hell or anything, I don't even like saying it, but I'd like to figure this out.

Edited February 21, 2010 by JohnOF123

[pam]

I don't remember what post you are talking about. I'm not sure what you mean by 1000 year Hell and temporary.

[JohnOF123]

I don't remember what post you are talking about. I'm not sure what you mean by 1000 year Hell and temporary.

Ohh, let me find that again. 1 sec.

Ok, found it.

Second Post

And you were right, you never said a 1000 years, I must have gotten that from somewhere else. I could have sworn that was taught, but I could be wrong.

Edited February 21, 2010 by JohnOF123

[JohnOF123]

So, LDS believe it is temporary, but do they believe people are tortured there? What is the hell like in LDS beliefs?

[bytor2112]

From the Bible Dictionary:

An English translation of the Hebrew word Shoel, hell signifies an abode of departed spirits and corresponds to the Greek Hades. In common speech it generally denotes the place of torment for the wicked, although it has been often held, both in the Jewish and the Christian churches, that Hades (meaning broadly the place of all departed spirits) consists of two parts, paradise and Gehenna, one the abode of the righteous and the other of the disobedient. “Gehenna,” or “Gehenna of fire,” is the Greek equivalent of the “valley of Hinnom,” a deep glen of Jerusalem where the idolatrous Jews offered their children to Moloch (2 Chr. 28: 3; 2 Chr. 33: 6; Jer. 7: 31; Jer. 19: 2-6). It was afterwards used as a place for burning the refuse of the city (2 Kgs. 23: 10), and in that way became symbolical of the place of torment (Matt. 5: 22, 29-30; Matt. 10: 28; Matt. 18: 9; Matt. 23: 15, 33; Mark 9: 43, 45, 47; Luke 12: 5; James 3: 6). Expressions about “hell-fire” are probably due to the impression produced on men’s minds by the sight of this ceaseless burning, and are figurative of the torment of those who willfully disobey God.

In latter-day revelation hell is spoken of in at least two senses. One is the temporary abode in the spirit world of those who were disobedient in this mortal life. It is between death and the resurrection, and persons who receive the telestial glory will abide there until the last resurrection (D&C 76: 84-85, 106), at which time they will go to the telestial glory. In this sense the Book of Mormon speaks of spiritual death as hell (2 Ne. 9: 10-12). Hell, as thus defined, will have an end, when all the captive spirits have paid the price of their sins and enter into a degree of glory after their resurrection. Statements about an everlasting hell (Hel. 6: 28; Moro. 8: 13) must be interpreted in their proper context in the light of D&C 19: 4-12, which defines eternal and endless punishment.

On the other hand, the devil and his angels, including the sons of perdition, are assigned to a place spoken of as a lake of fire - a figure of eternal anguish. This condition is sometimes called hell in the scriptures (2 Pet. 2: 4; D&C 29: 38; D&C 88: 113). This kind of hell, which is after the resurrection and judgment, is exclusively for the devil and his angels, and is not the same as that consisting only of the period between death and resurrection. The one group are redeemed from hell and inherit some degree of glory. The other receive no glory. They continue in spiritual darkness. For them the conditions of hell remain.

[marts1]

Talking of the final state called outer darkness is reserved for only a very few. We are told that no one will have an understanding of it accept those that end up there. Denying the Holy Ghost once he has been a part of you are apparently the only ones that end up there.

[marts1]

Now what does that have to do with Hell? The reason why I believe that Jesus spoke on Hell more than anyone else is... in His divinity, His Godhood, He was the only one who could truly grasp the terror of it.

I tend to agree with that.

[JohnOF123]

Allow me to post a few passages to why I believe many people will be going to hell. I don't like to think about it, but the Bible speaks of it.

1) Jesus warned about hell, A LOT!

2) Lazaraeth and the Rich man: the rich man went there.

3)"Wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat

strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it"

4)"And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell."

Over and over, we are warned about this, we are asked what it profits a man to gain the whole world than to lose his soul. We are told not to fear man, who can kill the body, but to instead fear God, who after the body is killed can cast body and soul into hell. It says to "workout out salvation with fear and trembling". I gotta tell ya, I don't fear or tremble at the proposition of going to a lower kingdom of heaven, but I DO fear and tremble at the idea of going to hell.

Many, few, warn, warn, warn

But whether you believe this or not, it still leaves the question....

Why did Jesus warn about this more than anyone else in the Bible??

Edited February 21, 2010 by JohnOF123

[hordak]

I think hell shows up more in the NT then the old because of the "change" in doctrine so to speak.

The OT is very authoritarian.Eye for an eye. Stoning, is a huge incentive to refrain from committing adultery for example. Then Jesus comes along and says "he who is without sin cast the first stone" He is saying judgment is for God, he seems to focus more on the dos then the do nots. At the same time to keep people from thinking "well if i'm not getting stoned it must be ok" (similarly to how when public law changes people accept the action in question is no longer sin or not as bad) so he spends more time to reiterate that while it isn't our place to judge, the judgment will still come.

[Moksha]

So, LDS believe it is temporary, but do they believe people are tortured there? What is the hell like in LDS beliefs?

No, the inmates there live together with the Paradisers. They are taught the gospel by Paradise Home Teachers.

Spirit Prison and Outer Darkness are two separate places, with separate residents. Spirit Prisoners are bound for some degree of Heaven.

Think of Spirit Prison and Paradise as Grand Central Station, which is the main terminal for the next destinations.

Think of Outer Darkness as being the Courts of Chaos bordering on the Pit of Chaos. This seems so much more zen-like than the larger picture painted by Dante Alighieri.

[JohnOF123]

No, the inmates there live together with the Paradisers. They are taught the gospel by Paradise Home Teachers.

Spirit Prison and Outer Darkness are two separate places, with separate residents. Spirit Prisoners are bound for some degree of Heaven.

Think of Spirit Prison and Paradise as Grand Central Station, which is the main terminal for the next destinations.

Think of Outer Darkness as being the Courts of Chaos bordering on the Pit of Chaos. This seems so much more zen-like than the larger picture painted by Dante Alighieri.

Ok thanks. I was wondering what the LDS think about the passage in Revelations that speaks of the lost in the final days.

Revelation 14:11

"And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name."

What does this apply to in the LDS theology. And thx for the info.

[pam]

Rev. 14:9-11 If any man worship the beast… he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels

Nowhere else do we read that the wicked are punished in the presence of the holy angels. How this will be fulfilled may elude us, but the symbolism does not. How many prophets and righteous men have suffered public execution? How many saints have been burned at the stake or publicly flogged? How many prophets have been stoned in view of the consenting crowd?

How can justice be just unless the wicked similarly suffer a public punishment? The wicked looked on as the prophets were persecuted, so the angels will watch as the wicked are punished. Such is the justice of God. Here, indeed, “is the patience of the saints.” (v. 12)

Bruce R. McConkie

Babylon shall fall after the gospel has been restored, and those in Babylon shall suffer the fires of eternal torment, the burning anguish of cloudy and seared consciences, in that hell which is prepared for the wicked. Why? Their fate befalls them because they worshipped—not the Father, in the name of the Son, by the power of the Spirit—but the beast and his image. They sacrificed at evil altars. Theirs was a worldly way of life. They did not overcome the world, and put off the natural man, and become saints through the atonement of Christ the Lord. They dwelt in Babylon in the day of her fall, in the day when the sword of vengeance fell upon her.

When will Babylon fall? We have already set forth that which is known about the seven last plagues and shown that they will take place in the beginning of the seventh thousand years. (The Millennial Messiah: The Second Coming of the Son of Man [salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1982], 436.)

[Just_A_Guy]

Johnof123, I, for one, agree with your original premise and will even go you one better: Jesus paid the penalty for the sins all mankind, so in a very real sense He could talk about Hell because He has been there (or, depending on the timing of the quotes in question, knew He would go there).

[CrimsonKairos]

Jesus paid the penalty for the sins all mankind...

How does that work, exactly?

The penalty for sin is to be cast out of God's presence eternally, for even one sin (1 Ne. 10:21, D&C 1:31). Agreed?

So if Christ "paid the penalty for our sins" or in other words, if Christ took on himself the penalty for even one person's single sin, Christ would have to be cast out of God's presence forever, according to the scriptures.

But the thing is, we know Christ dwells with the Father in His Kingdom and has done so from the moment of his resurrection.

So Christ "paying the penalty for our sins" must mean something else other than a literal quid-pro-quo "I repent and you sit in jail for me" type of arrangement, no? What scriptures persuade you to believe as you do?

Edited February 22, 2010 by CrimsonKairos

[marts1]

Probably referring to the resurrection

[CrimsonKairos]

Probably referring to the resurrection

Huh?

[JohnOF123]

What scriptures persuade you to believe as you do?

These are probably some of the scriptures that persuade me to believe that many will go to hell, and that it is eternal. I took the liberty of making them clickable, lol. Too many here to paste the whole scripture in the thread.

Matthew 7:13-14

Matt. 18:8

Matt. 25:46

John 5:24

2 Thess. 1:9

Jude 7

Jude 12-13

There are more, but I thought these kinda get the point across (to me).

I believe Jesus spoke of hell more than he did of heaven.

Ultimately, I was wondering why people thought Jesus warned more of hell than anyone else did, and for that matter, spoke more of it than heaven. To me, it sounds like something to avoid, and that most people are headed into. Matthew 7:13-14

By the way, nice camera ya got there

Ever seen one of them gigapixel camera shots?

HARLEM-13-GIGAPIXELS.COM

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Edited February 22, 2010 by JohnOF123

[Just_A_Guy]

How does that work, exactly?

The penalty for sin is to be cast out of God's presence eternally, for even one sin (1 Ne. 10:21, D&C 1:31). Agreed?

So if Christ "paid the penalty for our sins" or in other words, if Christ took on himself the penalty for even one person's single sin, Christ would have to be cast out of God's presence forever, according to the scriptures.

But the thing is, we know Christ dwells with the Father in His Kingdom and has done so from the moment of his resurrection.

So Christ "paying the penalty for our sins" must mean something else other than a literal quid-pro-quo "I repent and you sit in jail for me" type of arrangement, no?

I believe that's one reason we call it an "infinite and eternal" Atonement; and it's why no one less than a God could have done it.

What scriptures persuade you to believe as you do?

If justice demands that the price for sin is an eternity out of God's presence, then either a) Christ somehow miraculously paid that price for each and every one of us (or, at minimum, for those who repent); or b) Christ's mercy somehow robbed justice. Alma tells Corianton, in Alma 39-42, that b) is impossible.

Edited February 22, 2010 by Just_A_Guy

[JudoMinja]

I was just wondering this today. I'd like to hear some more ideas.

Why is it that Jesus spoke more about Hell than anyone else in the Bible did?

When Jesus came to earth, he fulfilled the Mosaic law and taught the Higher Law. This Higher Law required that we do far more than simply follow the commandments. Simply completing the necessary ordinances will not save us. We must devote ourselves, heart and soul to living as he did, striving always for perfection. Those who do not give it their all will fall short, in fact even those who give it their all will fall short.

He taught of Hell so much, because He wanted to impress on everyone the reality and necessity of His Atonement. Without Him, without His love, without His grace, we all go to Hell.

No matter how hard we work, no matter how much we do, no matter how good we are, NO MATTER WHAT, we cannot save ourselves. Without Christ, we cannot make it back into God's presence.

If the law of justice were to take full hold upon us we would be cursed to spend eternity in damnation. He did not end on this depressing note however. He did not say, you can do nothing, you will go to hell, so give up. No. He said, you can do nothing without ME, so FOLLOW me, do the best you can, and my grace will be sufficent for you.

[Moksha]

And thx for the info.

You are certainly welcome. Glad I payed attention in Gospel Essentials and asked many questions. Glad the teacher was able to answer the questions so well. :)

The Bible has so many contradictory ideas. Think I will stick to the thoughts of Jesus about love, forgiveness and mercy and leave the thoughts of hellfire and brimstone to those who place more importance upon them.

[CrimsonKairos]

I believe that's one reason we call it an "infinite and eternal" Atonement; and it's why no one less than a God could have done it.

I believe the atonement is infinite and eternal in that is offers mercy to ALL of God's children (infinite, covers all) ALL of the time (eternal). How it does that is a mystery.

If justice demands that the price for sin is an eternity out of God's presence...

Let's be precise. The scriptures talk alot about the demands of justice, but justice isn't a conscious entity with desires. The phrase is of course symbolic. The One demanding that justice be served and the law administered is He who administers it: Heavenly Father. Heavenly Father isn't sitting by helplessly as some skyscraper-sized rolled up scroll marches in and says, "I--Justice--demand that you be cast out of heaven for your sins!"

So when we clarify the phrase to be "The demands of Heavenly Father" instead of the impersonal "demands of justice" we come to an interesting point which I will explain below.

I think you'd agree that if God were ever unjust He would cease to be God. Stated differently, God would never be or do anything unjust. Agreed?

Would you agree that it is totally unjust to punish the innocent and let the guilty go free? I would.

So how does law-abiding, law-dictating Heavenly Father supposedly punish His Only innocent child Jesus and let us guilty sinners go free and still be a Just God? To suggest that Heavenly Father punishes the innocent (Jesus) and lets the guilty go free (admit us back into His presence) is to paint a picture of a very unjust, lawless God who simply does what He feels like or whatever it takes to "get things done the way He wants."

Even in human courts of law, just because you volunteer to go to jail for someone doesn't mean the court or law would ever allow that! It would be unjust to punish you for something you didn't do and let someone guilty go unpunished for something they DID do.

So I think the atonement is a bit more nuanced and complex and just without our reach than the simple Protestant "penal substitution theory" suggests. Of course, this is what the scriptures teach about sin, its penalty and God's divine nature (truth and judgment are two of His attributes).

or b) Christ's mercy somehow robbed justice.

Let's get specific again. What do you mean by "justice"? How would mercy "rob" justice? I'm asking for a hypothetical or illustrative example, a parallel even, not a literal gospel example. Give me an idea of what you're talking about.

[bytor2112]

How does that work, exactly?

The penalty for sin is to be cast out of God's presence eternally, for even one sin (1 Ne. 10:21, D&C 1:31). Agreed?

So if Christ "paid the penalty for our sins" or in other words, if Christ took on himself the penalty for even one person's single sin, Christ would have to be cast out of God's presence forever, according to the scriptures.

But the thing is, we know Christ dwells with the Father in His Kingdom and has done so from the moment of his resurrection.

So Christ "paying the penalty for our sins" must mean something else other than a literal quid-pro-quo "I repent and you sit in jail for me" type of arrangement, no? What scriptures persuade you to believe as you do?

Christ suffered for our sins and in so doing made mercy available on conditions of repentance. Paying a penalty suggests that it was a one time debt that needed to be satisfied, but, in reality it is a continuous process of repentance for each of us because we continue to sin, so Christ's Atonement is a continuous Atonement.