rameumptom Posted March 29, 2010 Report Posted March 29, 2010 Judominja is correct, I do not equate tendencies/temptation with sin. A person can have tendencies towards any addiction and not be a sinner. The issue at hand is what we do with the tendency. If we bear it patiently, like the cross Jesus has asked us to take upon us, then we will be blessed. If we give into it, then we are falling into sin. Christ can heal us. However, sometimes the full healing does not come until the next life. And that is okay, as long as we develop our faith and humility, and follow Him.
MobyMule Posted March 29, 2010 Report Posted March 29, 2010 The Church has a standard. But there have always been exceptions to the rule/standard. As a Church, we have always dealt with single sisters who were never asked by a worthy LDS man to marry, as an acceptable exception.We are now beginning to note the exception for others, including those with SSA. There is nothing wrong with waiting, serving the Lord and those around you, and keeping the commandments. If you remain celibate, you will have made a great sacrifice of obedience for the Lord. You will be greatly blessed for such a sacrifice. Focus on developing skills, talents, etc.Not everyone gets the chance to have children, marry, etc in this life. I do not have any biological children of my own. I do have step-children. It isn't that we didn't try, we just never were able to have children of our own. And that is okay. My wife and I may not multiply and replenish the earth in mortality, but God will give us that blessing in the hereafter, if we remain faithful.I admire those who can quietly follow God, even when it is extremely difficult and against LDS culture (marry young and have 12 kids).True and also please remember it isn't death strait to Judgement. There is alot that will happen in between. I promise that anyone who is faithful will find all the happiness they ever hoped/dreamed of during the millennial reign. All things will be made perfect by Christ who will oversee the work personally in preparation of the Judgement. All of these what if's and all these uncomprehendable situations will be resolved to everyones satisfaction. The question comes down to do you have faith/trust in the Lord or in yourself to know better.
MobyMule Posted March 29, 2010 Report Posted March 29, 2010 Judominja is correct, I do not equate tendencies/temptation with sin. A person can have tendencies towards any addiction and not be a sinner. The issue at hand is what we do with the tendency. If we bear it patiently, like the cross Jesus has asked us to take upon us, then we will be blessed. If we give into it, then we are falling into sin.Christ can heal us. However, sometimes the full healing does not come until the next life. And that is okay, as long as we develop our faith and humility, and follow Him.Correct. Tempatation and your tendancies doesn't equate sin. Action on them does. But even then it is not the end of the world. The Atonement surely is a miracle for us all. Strait/Gay it all comes down to learning to do the will of the Lord over our own will/desires. Sexual tendancies to break the law of chasity it just as strong in everyone regardless of their sexual oreintation. Lords will or our own. Whom truly do we serve?
ruthiechan Posted March 29, 2010 Report Posted March 29, 2010 (edited) I am on vacation, at my Mom's. But I keep thinking about you HappyGuy. So here I am writing to you. I am going to try and answer some of your questions that I feel haven't been sufficiently addressed. Hi, I was born into an LDS family in Victoria, Australia. I've been a bit conflicted throughout life between my sexuality and faith. I'm 23 years old, male, gay, and single. I thought these forums might be a useful avenue of inquiry as I don't often discuss these issues with other church members or even my family. Here are some of the questions I've been wondering about:1. Am I expected to attempt to enter an eternal marriage in this life?2. Is mortality the only window of opportunity one has to form an eternal marriage relationship?3. Does gods decree to have children to replenish the earth apply to me as a gay man? 4. When I'm granted a perfected body when I'm resurrected does that partly mean I'll no longer be same sex attracted or does that depend on my level of righteousness in mortality?I look forward to any insights provided.I feel badly that I didn't answer these questions individually. 1: Expected to? No. The commandments given are for the collective whole of the Church. There are individual cases, such as many women will not be able to find a Temple worthy man to be sealed to. And then there is your case. I know of one member here who is gay, but ended up finding an eternal companion to take to the Temple. His attraction to her was on an emotional level, not a physical level.That is something I can relate to. When walking down the street, women do not look twice at my husband. He is not the kind of fine man that causes a physical reaction when you look at him, unlike Brendan Fraser in the movie George of the Jungle. However, when I got to know him, it turned out he was the key to my lock, and now, I can look at him and have that kind of physical reaction because of the person he is. 2: If mortality were the only window to obtain an eternal marriage then we would not be doing sealings for the dead. So the answer is, no, mortality is not the only time to do this. When Christ returns he will reign for a thousand years on earth. At this time Temple work will be done. So, if you do not find someone in this life to take to the temple you will still have the opportunity, maybe one of those women who also had to live a celibate life on earth.3: You are a special case. It will only apply if you find an eternal companion, just like those women who will never marry here on earth. However, there are many opportunities for you to be a father figure to someone else. You can still be in training for fatherhood. Children in broken homes need a male figure to look up to, and you can be that person. It's a huge responsibility, but working hard to be the kind of person you want a child to emulate is edifying and a bit a scary too. But I figure if I can be a positive force in a child's life then I'm doing something right.4: The answer is you will no longer have problems with being gay. I have issues with depression and anxiety. It used to be really bad. Though I am no longer suicidally depressed (praise be) I will still, at times, become depressed for no reason (at least it's for no reason, it means nothing terrible has happened). The Lord does not always take away our burdens but he can make them light, as in, he can make it easier for us to bear. He has done so for me. He can do so for you. I expect that after this life I will still remember what it felt like so I can retain the lessons I learned from having that burden, but that it will no longer be a problem for me, and for you. There is more to you than being gay, just as there is more to me than being that seriously depressed and anxious girl. It's one aspect of my life here on earth. I have eternal qualities to foster, so do you. Also, concerning the devil, why would lucifer knowingly propagate the plan of salvation? By tempting adam and eve he in effect set it in motion, and by himself and his angels providing mankind with adversity and temptation they provide much of the basis for our earthly existance. Why would a being as supposedly cunning as the devil play right into gods hand like this?Satan does not know the mind of God. He probably did not fully understand that Adam and Eve would not be able to have children until after they ate the fruit, and that partaking of the fruit was a part of the plan. Satan is smart, and cunning, but he lacked experience.Also, shouldn't there be extensive archaeological evidence of the civilizations and peoples talked about in the book of mormon? Why haven't I heard about the ancient nephites or lamanites at any point during my secular education?You will probably find this site rather interesting. Mormon Truth and Book of Mormon Evidences: Not Proof, But Indications of PlausibilityPlease, let me know if you have any other questions. I will do my best to answer them for you. I feel for you, I really do. You are in my prayers. Feel free to PM me. Edited March 29, 2010 by ruthiechan clarification
HappyGuy989 Posted March 30, 2010 Author Report Posted March 30, 2010 If anyone is interested/wondering I've decided I'll be at some point asking for my LDS membership to be rescinded. I've come to believe LDS theology is littered with absurdities and am no longer comfortable with being a member. I do appreciate the efforts people have made to answer my questions, and wish you all the best for the future. (Just a quick note; I wasn't able to access the forums for the past few days, I thought I was banned.)
Finrock Posted March 30, 2010 Report Posted March 30, 2010 Good morning HappyGuy989! I hope you are doing good today. :)If anyone is interested/wondering I've decided I'll be at some point asking for my LDS membership to be rescinded. I've come to believe LDS theology is littered with absurdities and am no longer comfortable with being a member. I do appreciate the efforts people have made to answer my questions, and wish you all the best for the future.(Just a quick note; I wasn't able to access the forums for the past few days, I thought I was banned.)I suspect that you've come to a point where no amount of reasoning will be effective. Though I respect your agency I nonetheless do hope you reconsider your descision. One thing I am certain about is that the worst thing for anyone to do is to forsake the gospel for any reason, because dispite how you might feel about it the LDS church is true and filled with all the principles and ordinances that we need to be happy in this life and experience a fullness of joy in the life to come.All of your concerns and questions may not have easy answers, but there are answers to be had. Remember what the Lord has said, "If ye will not harden your hearts, and ask me in faith, believing that ye shall receive, with diligence in keeping my commandments, surely these things shall be made known unto you" (1 Nephi 15:11).Whatever you do in the future, do what is right and good and cling on to that which is light, relying on Jesus Christ and His mercy. Nothing else will bring you true and lasting peace and joy.Kind Regards, Finrock
rameumptom Posted March 30, 2010 Report Posted March 30, 2010 The reality is, each of us has to decide just how much heaven we want in the next life. No one else chooses it for us. We either choose to be valiant (celestial) in our testimonies, honorable (terrestrial), or just slugs who barely squeak by. Thankfully, the Lord gives a very nice reward, even for the Telestial murderers, adulterers, and others who choose not to fully repent of their sins. Still, I hope HappyGuy realizes he will not be a "happy guy" when he stands before the throne of God. Alma 12, Mormon 9, and many scriptures in the Old and New Testament make it very clear that those who choose a life of sin, rather than taking up the cross of Christ, will have to pay for their own sins. D&C 19 tells us that it will be as painful as the pain Christ had to endure, and they will endure it until they finally humble themselves enough to fully repent.
HappyGuy989 Posted March 31, 2010 Author Report Posted March 31, 2010 One of the reasons I don't want to be a member of your church. You apparently believe anyone who doesn't do the things you do or come to the same conclusions you have will be excruciatingly punished in the afterlife. Like pretty much every other faith. The thing is I don't even believe the godhead exists anymore or that your theology is a sound ground to draw reasoning from. Imagine still being like that though, to feel so insulated and comfortable in the belief that your church and way of life are the only means to find happiness in this life and the next. Your position is arguably worse than mine. The father has sanctioned mass murder, slavery, and infanticide amongst other atrocities if the standard works are accurate. I'm sure you'll all draw much further enlightenment from his worship.
Jamie123 Posted March 31, 2010 Report Posted March 31, 2010 One of the reasons I don't want to be a member of your church. You apparently believe anyone who doesn't do the things you do or come to the same conclusions you have will be excruciatingly punished in the afterlife.I'm no expert, but isn't that precisely what Mormons don't believe? My understanding is that only a few will suffer anything like the traditional "Hell". The majority will suffer a limited period of correction, followed by entry into the "Telestial" Kingdom.
FunkyTown Posted March 31, 2010 Report Posted March 31, 2010 If anyone is interested/wondering I've decided I'll be at some point asking for my LDS membership to be rescinded. I've come to believe LDS theology is littered with absurdities and am no longer comfortable with being a member. I do appreciate the efforts people have made to answer my questions, and wish you all the best for the future.(Just a quick note; I wasn't able to access the forums for the past few days, I thought I was banned.)You clearly had that decision made before you came here. I wish you nothing but the best in the future.
HappyGuy989 Posted March 31, 2010 Author Report Posted March 31, 2010 The reality is, each of us has to decide just how much heaven we want in the next life. No one else chooses it for us. We either choose to be valiant (celestial) in our testimonies, honorable (terrestrial), or just slugs who barely squeak by. Thankfully, the Lord gives a very nice reward, even for the Telestial murderers, adulterers, and others who choose not to fully repent of their sins.Still, I hope HappyGuy realizes he will not be a "happy guy" when he stands before the throne of God. Alma 12, Mormon 9, and many scriptures in the Old and New Testament make it very clear that those who choose a life of sin, rather than taking up the cross of Christ, will have to pay for their own sins. D&C 19 tells us that it will be as painful as the pain Christ had to endure, and they will endure it until they finally humble themselves enough to fully repent.I suppose the millions of children worldwide who have starved to death or are currently starving, who are suffering in a combination of other ways including some who experience organ failure at the hand of infectious disease are paying their lot? Ooo! They should be happy they get an instant ticket to the celestial kingdom! What a cop out. I'm willing to wager there are countless people who have suffered to a greater degree for longer periods of time than what Jesus did. Oh it doesn't really compare they weren't perfect!! Jesus isn't the only one who has endured grave injustice. About you comparing people who receive the telestial degree to slugs. There are atheists I'd rather spend time with that are far more intelligent, worthwhile, and of greater morale fiber than the people I've met face to face so far in the church. A people who accept anything a church tells them in the face of evidence and logical reasoning to the contrary? Spending eternity with such a people is not a desire of my heart.
HappyGuy989 Posted March 31, 2010 Author Report Posted March 31, 2010 You clearly had that decision made before you came here. I wish you nothing but the best in the future.Well I guess that infers you have no inclination to listen to people that don't accept your own beliefs.
FunkyTown Posted March 31, 2010 Report Posted March 31, 2010 Well I guess that infers you have no inclination to listen to people that don't accept your own beliefs. Not especially, but I wish you the best!
HappyGuy989 Posted March 31, 2010 Author Report Posted March 31, 2010 (edited) Good morning HappyGuy989! I hope you are doing good today. :)I suspect that you've come to a point where no amount of reasoning will be effective. Though I respect your agency I nonetheless do hope you reconsider your descision. One thing I am certain about is that the worst thing for anyone to do is to forsake the gospel for any reason, because dispite how you might feel about it the LDS church is true and filled with all the principles and ordinances that we need to be happy in this life and experience a fullness of joy in the life to come.All of your concerns and questions may not have easy answers, but there are answers to be had. Remember what the Lord has said, "If ye will not harden your hearts, and ask me in faith, believing that ye shall receive, with diligence in keeping my commandments, surely these things shall be made known unto you" (1 Nephi 15:11).Whatever you do in the future, do what is right and good and cling on to that which is light, relying on Jesus Christ and His mercy. Nothing else will bring you true and lasting peace and joy.Kind Regards, FinrockWhat you consider reasoning isn't what I consider reasoning. It's interesting, what you consider reasoning is ineffective in changing my views, what I consider reasoning is ineffective in changing your views. Lets just agree to disagree. If anything I will be stroking gods ego. :) Isn't that what we all do in the end? Those that swallowed his teachings get the best reward? Those that don't end up with a lesser eternal state? Edited March 31, 2010 by HappyGuy989
MarginOfError Posted March 31, 2010 Report Posted March 31, 2010 What you consider reasoning isn't what I consider reasoning. It's interesting, what you consider reasoning is ineffective in changing my views, what I consider reasoning is ineffective in changing your views. Lets just agree to disagree. If anything I will be stroking gods ego. :) Isn't that we all do in the end? Those that swallowed his teachings get the best reward? Those that don't end up with a lesser eternal state?Does that mean you'll now be starting your prayers with, "Our Father, the great manipulator and egotist, who art in heaven. Hallowed by they name..."?
HappyGuy989 Posted March 31, 2010 Author Report Posted March 31, 2010 Not especiallyAtleast you admit your closed mindedness.
HappyGuy989 Posted March 31, 2010 Author Report Posted March 31, 2010 (edited) Does that mean you'll now be starting your prayers with, "Our Father, the great manipulator and egotist, who art in heaven. Hallowed by they name..."? Funny, but seriously I wont be praying to him at all. At least as long as I'm not being tortured into compliance. As some respondents have said will happen. Edit: Well, what your doctrine says will happen. Edited March 31, 2010 by HappyGuy989
Finrock Posted March 31, 2010 Report Posted March 31, 2010 Good afternoon HappyGuy989. I hope you are happy and well! :)What you consider reasoning isn't what I consider reasoning. It's interesting, what you consider reasoning is ineffective in changing my views, what I consider reasoning is ineffective in changing your views. Lets just agree to disagree. If anything I will be stroking gods ego. :) Isn't that what we all do in the end? Those that swallowed his teachings get the best reward? Those that don't end up with a lesser eternal state?Based on your responses to others today I have the feeling that any sort of discourse at this point will be futile, but I still like to give people the benefit of the doubt. There really is just one kind of reasoning. Things are either reasonable or they are not. However, we can tune ourselves out to reasonable discourse. I know because I've done it myself in instances like when I'm angry, when I've had my feelings hurt, or when I've let petty differences cloud my charity. Sometimes people are beyond reason because they've let themselves succumb to the temptations of the adversary and therefore they really don't care anymore about the light.But, I'm curious, why the apparently sudden animosity and prejudice to all things Mormon? You seem to have now forsaken all things pertaining to God and His gospel. Any fool knows, however, that such things don't come about suddenly. So, why the ruse with your initial post?It's hard for me to imagine that having feelings of animosity and prejudice towards a people or a religion can bring happiness in to your life, but then again it could just be a result of my delusional beliefs. In any case, I end this post with the same message I ended my last post with:Regardless of what you do, I hope you'll continue to do what you know is right and cling on to that which is light and good. Forsaking Mormonism doesn't mean you have to forsake God and Jesus Christ. Please, continue to look to God and His Son.Kind Regards,Finrock
rameumptom Posted March 31, 2010 Report Posted March 31, 2010 Clearly, HappyGuy is not so happy, and came here with a chip on his shoulder. He has misrepresented LDS teaching, and clearly does not understand it at all. If everything God did only had to do with this life, then all the tragedies would be devastating. But there is an eternity, and there is healing in the eternities who innocently suffer here, and who take up their cross and follow Christ. Those who have studied the gospel understand why there is evil and tragedy in the world. Small children who suffer here are a sad tragedy. That said, God has said he will take away all pain and wipe away all tears through the atonement of Christ. However, this is just an attempt by an unhappy person to attack the Church and God, who really did not want reasons for the Church's stance on anything. He was looking for someone to agree with him and encourage him, saying that to sin is okay. Sinning is your choice, HG, but you do not get to choose your eternal consequences. We would be remiss if we did not discuss the entirety of the decisions you are making with you. You do have the choice to leave the Church, and it seems that will be best for you, as you do not seem humble nor willing to submit to God, who you have characterized as an evil tyrant. this thread is closed.
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