Arrogant People

[Guest mormonmusic]

I have a question. For years there was a personality type that I admired in some ways, because of their competence and ability in some area, but who also had this way of making myself, and apparently others around them feel drastically inferior all the time.

It wasn't until I was in my late thirties that someone put a label on that behavior -- arrogance.

I've noticed these arrogant people don't even seem to be aware of the impact they have on other people with such arrogant behavior. And they are incorrigible -- they tend to be right a lot, hence, the source of power and competence. And they tend to interpret honest feedback about their impact on others as a weakness of the person who objects to their behavior. I've also noticed a tendency for them to NOT want to give up reasonable things, like their time, or to make themselves available unless it's important to THEM.

An Example

Here's an example. I had a guitarist in a band I played in. He was university trained, and gifted on his instrument. And, without any formal education in business or management, had risen to be a middle manager at a major auto manufacturer at a very young age. We played with our group to "keep his fingers nimble", he said, and made a point of saying "he could take the group, or leave it". We decided we would play at a local art gallery, and he says "If we're going to perform in public, we better fix a few things in our playing". When the group asked "what?", he wouldn't tell us. When we went into the music studio, each person in the band had to pay $50 to the sound engineer for the recording. He replies "I can't do it, because there isn't anything worth recording". When we played out in public, he didn't want to be introduced, and hid behind his music stand when the press took pictures of us.

Eventually we attracted better and better musicians, until he was no longer the best player in the group. The group members then put pressure on me to fire him because he was so arrogant, but I resisted because I didn't know if I could replace him. Eventually, they said they would quit if I didn't fire him, so I did.

He was arrogant when I called him to let hiim go, refusing to meet face to face "because he was booked", and when I reluctantly fired him over the phone he said 'he didn't care anyway, he could take the band or leave it". When I shared something about the group's future direction in the course of my letting him go, he replied "Well, good luck with that"" which stank of arrogance as well.

[and by the way, the recording we made, footing the bill for his portion, has landed me lots of paid gigs and performances over the years, so the music wasn't as bad as he said it was, according to our clients]

My Questions

Anyway, have you experienced such personalities, and how do you deal with them when they seem to lack so much self-awareness? What do you think is the source of arrogance, why are they so unaware of the way others perceive them? Why do they care so little about the impact they have on other people? Who do you personally deal with this personality type?

Although I've given a profile of a specific person here, I'm talking about arrogance in general.

Edited April 2, 2010 by mormonmusic

[marts1]

I tend to stay away as well and sometimes I think I might have some of that trait in me because I have the gift of knowledge. I'm always aware however that it comes from God and not me and although it may not show, I am careful how I use it.

[MarginOfError]

I'm one of the most arrogant people I know.

[marts1]

I could be wrong but aren't arrogant people ignorant that they are such..which would put MOE far far out of the picture. :)

[pam]

MOE is the ONE exception. He is arrogant and knows it.

[Dravin]

MOE is the ONE exception. He is arrogant and knows it.

Which I'm sure he simply takes as further evidence of just how perceptive and intelligent he is.

[Mahone]

I could be wrong but aren't arrogant people ignorant that they are such..which would put MOE far far out of the picture. :)

I don't know actually. I think most people deep down know what they are, or what they can be like, or how other people perceive them - though most often they choose to not think about it. Most people have a certain degree of arrogance about them in some way, some just more apparent than others. I also think most forms of arrogance stem from what in reality is low self esteem. The appearance of arrogance is often just a defensive shield they put up around themselves due to past experience.

[RipplecutBuddha]

My take is to reflect their arrogance back on them to see if they catch it. I had a similar experience such as you described. When the individual stated they really didn't care to be involved, I told them "Fine, you aren't anymore. We don't need you if you don't care." The person left, but then came back much more receptive and possibly aware of how they had been acting.

Sometimes they know what they're doing, sometimes they don't.

[Guest mormonmusic]

I checked Yahoo answers on this one, and someone asked if an arrogant person wouldn't mind telling us why they are so arrogant. Well, one self-aware arrogant person (a statistical unicorn, in my view, MOE excepted), said "It's because I'm right all the time, it's hard not to be arrogant when you're always right".

I think these arrogant people find they have some talent and it puffs them up with pride. I often wonder what kind of self esteem they would have left if you took away the gifts that made them feel so uppity toward others...I've had to develop my own self-esteeem and love myself in spite of the fact that I have no real gifts to be proud of.

It helps me understand why the Lord said in Ether 12 or 4, I can't remember which (maybe an arrogant scriptorian could tell me the exact verse!) -- "I give unto mean weakness that they may be humble". So many of us probably couldn't handle being near perfect all the time, so the Lord gives us weaknesses so we avoid opening the floodgates of arrogance.

[MarginOfError]

I checked Yahoo answers on this one, and someone asked if an arrogant person wouldn't mind telling us why they are so arrogant. Well, one self-aware arrogant person (a statistical unicorn, in my view, MOE excepted), said "It's because I'm right all the time, it's hard not to be arrogant when you're always right".

There's a certain poetry present in labeling me a 'statistical unicorn.'

But you hit upon something very close to home for me here. This is exactly the kind of arrogance I possess. I pretty much am always right. Go reading through my posts on the boards and you'll see that I'm right in far more cases than I'm wrong. And I say that with all the arrogance I can muster.

Here is the thing though- there are two types of arrogance, or two manifestations of it. Arrogance can be charming at times, and annoying at others. I'm afraid I'm not very good at exhibiting the charming side of my arrogance online, but most people in the real world take no issue with my arrogance and many even appreciate it.

Anyway, for those that want to know, this his how you make your arrogance more palatable

1) Don't talk about things you don't know anything about

If you don't know what you're talking about but you pretend like you do and assert that you're right, then you come off as a jerk and an idiot. Once you do that, your arrogance is overexposed in people's minds and it's very hard to recover.

2) Use the words "I don't know" as often as appropriate

This is related to #1. If you don't know the answer, say so! By doing so, you maintain the truth of the perception that you're always right, and you get bonus points for being honest. It's a win-win for you.

3) Admit when you're wrong

Hopefully this will be rare, but when someone can demonstrate to you that what you said or did was wrong, quickly and graciously accept it. Aside from making you likable, this also has the benefit of you learning what is correct, and then you can use that and be right all the time going forward.

4) Apologize quickly when necessary

Arrogant jerks never apologize. That's part of what's so annoying about them. Lovable arrogants will apologize when necessary and they do it quickly and willingly. Also, lovable arrogants will thank people for correcting them. Afterall, when you replace a false idea with a true one, you're going to be right more often.

[Elphaba]

Anyway, for those that want to know, this his how you make your arrogance more palatable

1) Don't talk about things you don't know anything about

If you don't know what you're talking about but you pretend like you do and assert that you're right, then you come off as a jerk and an idiot. Once you do that, your arrogance is overexposed in people's minds and it's very hard to recover.

2) Use the words "I don't know" as often as appropriate

This is related to #1. If you don't know the answer, say so! By doing so, you maintain the truth of the perception that you're always right, and you get bonus points for being honest. It's a win-win for you.

3) Admit when you're wrong

Hopefully this will be rare, but when someone can demonstrate to you that what you said or did was wrong, quickly and graciously accept it. Aside from making you likable, this also has the benefit of you learning what is correct, and then you can use that and be right all the time going forward.

4) Apologize quickly when necessary

Arrogant jerks never apologize. That's part of what's so annoying about them. Lovable arrogants will apologize when necessary and they do it quickly and willingly. Also, lovable arrogants will thank people for correcting them. Afterall, when you replace a false idea with a true one, you're going to be right more often.

I agree with all of these, and would add: 5) Pretend you didn't read Twilight.

But then, I'm never arrogant, so what do I know?

Elph

[Wingnut]

I agree with all of these, and would add: 5) Pretend you didn't read Twilight.

But then, I'm never arrogant, so what do I know?

Elph

I do have to agree -- having read Twilight diminishes credibility.

[Misshalfway]

I think that we all struggle with some form of arrogance or self estimation. I think it happens because we want the feeling of being worthy and loved but we haven't the learned the lessons of real God-like love yet.

When we get disrupted by an arrogant person, our reactions are usually more about us than them. We ought to spend less time analyzing their character flaws and more time looking honestly at our own.

[Snow]

I have a question. For years there was a personality type that I admired in some ways, because of their competence and ability in some area, but who also had this way of making myself, and apparently others around them feel drastically inferior all the time.

It wasn't until I was in my late thirties that someone put a label on that behavior -- arrogance.

I've noticed these arrogant people don't even seem to be aware of the impact they have on other people with such arrogant behavior. And they are incorrigible -- they tend to be right a lot, hence, the source of power and competence. And they tend to interpret honest feedback about their impact on others as a weakness of the person who objects to their behavior. I've also noticed a tendency for them to NOT want to give up reasonable things, like their time, or to make themselves available unless it's important to THEM.

Has elevating yourself by denigrating others helped improve your day?

[marts1]

I thought he was looking for help.

[Bini]

Sometimes "arrogant people" aren't necessarily arrogant. Where's the line drawn? If one person finds someone offensive? If two people do? Maybe if an entire group does? I think it goes both ways (a) how supposed arrogant person acts and (b) how others perceive it. What might be arrogant behaviour to one person, may not be arrogant behavior to another.

My hubby was in a band for about six years before calling it quits and he had the same response as this man you're talking about. He could "take it or leave it". He happened to be the lead man but as we started to date more and become more serious, he wanted to settle down and getaway from the "nightlife" that being with the band revolved around. His best-friend who is still in the band, had told him to get off his idealistic pedestal and quit thinking he's better than everyone else. That certainly wasn't the case! He had decided long ago, that once he met someone and settled down, he'd run with it and leave the band-life behind. So taking it or leaving it, was truly how he felt. Just another perspective.

[marts1]

I realise that sometimes it is necessary, but it's easier to care for others when judgement is left to God.

[john doe]

I just wish you guys would quit talking about me like that. It's offensive.

[Dravin]

I just wish you guys would quit talking about me like that. It's offensive.

You're so vain

You probably think this thread is about you

You're so vain, you're so vain

I'll bet you think this thread is about you

Don't you?

Don't you?

[dazed-and-confused]

does thinking that someone's soul is revealed by their driving skills, or lack there of, count as being arrogant?

[Guest mormonmusic]

Sometimes "arrogant people" aren't necessarily arrogant. Where's the line drawn? If one person finds someone offensive? If two people do? Maybe if an entire group does? I think it goes both ways (a) how supposed arrogant person acts and (b) how others perceive it. What might be arrogant behaviour to one person, may not be arrogant behavior to another.

My hubby was in a band for about six years before calling it quits and he had the same response as this man you're talking about. He could "take it or leave it". He happened to be the lead man but as we started to date more and become more serious, he wanted to settle down and getaway from the "nightlife" that being with the band revolved around. His best-friend who is still in the band, had told him to get off his idealistic pedestal and quit thinking he's better than everyone else. That certainly wasn't the case! He had decided long ago, that once he met someone and settled down, he'd run with it and leave the band-life behind. So taking it or leaving it, was truly how he felt. Just another perspective.

Interesting perspective. I think as an isolated incident, with the motive behind the statement explained, wouldn't lead me to believe your husband was arrogant. But as a band leader, I would be concerned that he wasn't committed to the band. And it would be distrubing, as being a band leader is a thankless job-- that I probably worked hard at, to build a team of good musicians. I'd rather he said "In three months I think it's time I settled down with my family, so if you'd like to start looking for another vocalist, that'll giuve you time to retool the vocal chair'.

With his take it or leave it comment, your husband would have me thinking it was time to start rebuilding my database of substitute vocalists in case he quit. I'd wonder about his overall commitment, definitely -- which sounds like it was the right conclusion.

In the case I gave above, the ENTIRE BAND labelled the guy arrogant, and threatened to quit if I didn't let him go. And then each person had their own way of describing the guy, so it appears to have been a widespread perception, at least with this group of people.

Our drummer, after we found another guitarist and auditioned him said "He plays well, and you can even talk to the guy. The last guitarist would always come out with some smart comment whenever you asked him a question".

Anyway, if there are any self-aware arrogant people out there, I'd like to understand your thinking a bit. For example, how do you view relationships? Do you care about them? Or is it simply that being right, or getting the job done correctly is more important than the any relationship issues? And do you find you have fulfiling relationships with all different kinds of people, or only with arrogant people who tend to be right all the time like you?

Last of all, when you're around people who seem inferior to you, what do they do that irks you, and what do they do that you appreciate? And if you exhibit behavior others find uppity, how would you like them to point it out to you, or would you rather not have the feedback at all?

I've often wondered these things, and the ability to understand your thinking is a valuable exercise, in my view.

Edited April 4, 2010 by mormonmusic

[Guest mormonmusic]

Has elevating yourself by denigrating others helped improve your day?

To this I quote from my opening post....

"And they tend to interpret honest feedback about their impact on others as a weakness of the person who objects to their behavior."

[Dravin]

To this I quote from my opening post....

"And they tend to interpret honest feedback about their impact on others as a weakness of the person who objects to their behavior."

I'm finding a certain amount of irony here. As you are interpreting Snow's feedback as a weakness on his part (you are ascribing it to arrogance), he being the one who objects to your behavior. Of course you probably don't consider it honest feedback, but neither would someone who is arrogant.

So, are you the arrogant one? Or is Snow? You handy dandy line can make a case either way. Note: I'm not accusing either of you of being arrogant, just pointing out something that I'm finding mildly amusing, kinda like a teetotaler trying to convince an AA meeting he doesn't have a problem.

[dazed-and-confused]

i think i understand what you are saying.

it can be a difficult thing to find musicians that can meld together into a band. personality issues....musical issues.......definately ego issues.......and each and every one of the band searching for themselves in their music.......and if they are not, how comitted to their music are they?

on the other hand....if they seem to be primadonas, how comitted to being a member of a group for the glory of music, are they?

so..perhaps you are learning something about leadership here, and diplomacy.

[dazed-and-confused]

btw....if you need a tenor sax player, kind of bluesy, rock-n-rolly, and sometimes cries when he plays, let me know.

ah, crap...been WAY too long since i played....but you DO bring back memories.