Do We Recognize God's Prophecies Being Fulfilled?

[Rosabella]

George Q. Cannon: Ordained an apostle in 1860, he subsequently served as counselor to Presidents Brigham Young, John Taylor, Wilford Woodruff, and Lorenzo Snow

George Q. Cannon: "The Lord works in the midst of this people by natural means, and the greatest events that have been spoken of by the holy Prophets will come along so naturally as the consequence of certain causes that unless our eyes are enlightened by the Spirit of God and the spirit of revelation rests on us, we will fail to see that these are the events predicted by the holy Prophets. . . ."

"One of the most notable features in the news of the day is the frequency with which catastrophies of various kinds are published. The inhabitants of the earth are suffering from judgments of the most terrible character; but they appear to make no impression upon them. The remark is frequently heard, when allusion is made to these events, "Oh, these disasters always have occurred. We hear more of them now because of the telegraph, which collects details from all parts of the earth.

In this way mankind console themselves with the idea that there is nothing in these occurrences to be startled at, and their hearts are hardened against the testimony of the servants of God and the testimony of God's judgments. . . .

So it will be to the end. The Lord calls in vain upon the impenitent and the wicked. They will not listen to His voice nor to the voice of His servants nor to the voice of His judgments but are determined to harden their hearts and go on their way in the downward course. If we did not have evidence of this blindness on the part of the people, it would be almost impossible to convince anyone that it could exist and that men could be so stupid and obstinate as to resist testimonies of so wonderful a character, especially when they have been foretold with such great plainness. (Aug. 15, 1890, JI 25:527-28) "

I hear many say the earthquakes we see in the world today are not proof of God's judgments but merely we are recording more now or that they are caused by Global warming or even a government secret project called HARRP. Are we not just making excuses not to see the Lord's hand in these things? Are we not just doing as Elder Cannon said we would do, denying the hand of God in the events of our days?

[Hemidakota]

We are in a preparatory state of what is called the great calamities. There is a great deal that needs to be done prior and the angels that are sent forth need to seal those that are called by GOD prior to bring the final judgment to the earth. However. one of them still reside in mortality. What is happening now in true comparison is not even close on what is coming. :)

[Rosabella]

I agree we have not seen anywhere close to the fullness of God's wrath yet!

I fear many are not seeing the signs of the times as being just that. Back in the time of Elder Cannon people would not see what was happening as God's judgments and admit to themselves that these things are truly of God, but dismissed them as non-prophecies. I fear many are doing that also today even within the Church.

[Elphaba]

I hear many say the earthquakes we see in the world today are not proof of God's judgments but merely we are recording more now or that they are caused by Global warming or even a government secret project called HARRP. Are we not just making excuses not to see the Lord's hand in these things? Are we not just doing as Elder Cannon said we would do, denying the hand of God in the events of our days?

Not if you've taken the time to do a little research to gain perspective about the earthquakes; in other words, the earth is so old, there must have been an equal number of quakes within a four-month period numerous times during the billions of years the earth has existed. And it turns out that yes, of course there have been.

At the US Geological Survey website, it has a section called Common Myths about Earthquakes. The following is an excerpt:

A: Although it may seem that we are having more earthquakes, earthquakes of magnitude 7.0 or greater have remained fairly constant throughout this century and, according to our records, have actually seemed to decrease in recent years.

There are several reasons for the perception that the number of earthquakes, in general, and particularly destructive earthquakes is increasing.

1) A partial explanation may lie in the fact that in the last twenty years, we have definitely had an increase in the number of earthquakes we have been able to locate each year. This is because of the tremendous increase in the number of seismograph stations in the world and the many improvements in global communications.

In 1931, there were about 350 stations operating in the world; today, there are more that 4,000 stations and the data now comes in rapidly from these stations by telex, computer and satellite. This increase in the number of stations and the more timely receipt of data has allowed us and other seismological centers to locate many small earthquakes which were undetected in earlier years, and we are able to locate earthquakes more rapidly.

2) The population at risk is increasing. While the number of large earthquakes is fairly constant, population density in earthquake-prone areas is constantly increasing. In some countries, the new construction that comes with population growth has better earthquake resistance; but in many it does not. So we are now seeing increasing casualties from the same sized earthquakes.

3) Better global communication. Just a few decades ago, if several hundred people were killed by an earthquake in Indonesia or eastern China, for example, the media in the rest of the world would not know about it until several days, to weeks, later, long after such an event would be deemed “newsworthy”. So by the time this information was available, it would probably be relegated to the back pages of the newspaper, if at all. And the public Internet didn't even exist. We are now getting this information almost immediately.

4) Earthquake clustering and human psychology. While the average number of large earthquakes per year is fairly constant, earthquakes occur in clusters. This is predicted by various statistical models, and does not imply that earthquakes that are distant in location, but close in time, are causally related. But when such clusters occur, especially when they are widely reported in the media, they are noticed. However, during the equally anomalous periods during which no destructive earthquakes occur, no one deems this as remarkable.

Roger Bilham is a seismologist at the University of Colorado, and he wrote an article titled: World's not falling apart. These earthquakes are normal. In the article, he said:

The Earth, in fact, is behaving quite normally. A “major” earthquake is one measuring greater than magnitude 7.0. They release enough energy to produce considerable shaking. On average the world has been shaken by 16 major earthquakes annually since 1900. Six major quakes have occurred in the past four months. In other words, if the trend continues for the rest of the year, we will be only slightly above the average. In some years, such as 1986 and 1989, we have recorded only six major quakes while 32 of them occurred in 1943.

. . . .

Do earthquakes signal to each other, encouraging their neighbors to join in? Yes, sequences of earthquakes at plate boundaries do indeed occur. The 9.1 Indonesian earthquake of 2004 was the start of a great unzipping of the entire plate boundary from Myanmar to Bali and beyond that is still ongoing.

. . . .

The time between a major earthquake and its successor on your local neighborhood plate boundary varies from several decades to a few hundred years. But the world's population has increased by a factor of 10 in the past 200 years. Most people now live in cities, and more than half the world's largest cities are located on plate boundaries.

. . . .

Earthquakes that occurred 200 years ago shook villages that are now vast urban agglomerations. Take Los Angeles, for example. The Big One, a 7.9 earthquake that occurred in 1857 shook a rural population of about a thousand village dwellers. Its recurrence (pretty soon) will shake a population of 8 million, and half again as many in adjoining areas.

It is clear tthe earthquakes we've seen in the last four months are actually quite normal, though our perception of them is not. But nothing different is happening that hasn't been happening annually for billions of years now, and there's no reason to think this year's quakes are a sign of anything.

Elphaba

[Rosabella]

"there's no reason to think this year's quakes are a sign of anything.'

For me personally being LDS the words of Prophets declaring this as part of the signs is all I need to know that it is exactly that.

Actually I have done lots of research on this subject of earthquakes and am very well informed on the topic, that is not my point. My point has been well represented by the prior post.

My point is that we have been warned that we WILL dismiss the acts of God as nothing, just as these "data" that has been posted above says that earthquakes not increasing.

I will not hearken to the world and the worlds view I will cleave to the words of the Lords Anointed Oracles. The same mocking happened in the book of Mormon regarding the many earthquakes and signs of His coming to America. Unbelievers always try to explain away God's acts as either natural events or man made causes. They also out right deny the words of the Lord's Prophets. He caused them then and He causes them now. So the history of the earths quakes is merely proof of God's activity in the past. Just as the Flood, Earthquakes at Christs Death, Plagues in Egypt etc. I do not read the scriptures as myths or made up explanations of natural events. Nor do I disregard warnings given by Prophets. We always look back and wonder why Laman and Lemuel could mock God and murmur after seeing an Angel or why those that witness the great miracles of Moses could turn so quick from their faith to idolatry. It is easy to see as we live in a day where we are doing the same.

Here is another Anointed of the Lord saying the same thing.

Dallin H. Oaks, “Preparation for the Second Coming,” Liahona, May 2004, 7–10

In another revelation the Lord declares that some of these signs are His voice calling His people to repentance:

“Hearken, O ye nations of the earth, and hear the words of that God who made you. …

“How oft have I called upon you by the mouth of my servants, and by the ministering of angels, and by mine own voice, and by the voice of thunderings, and by the voice of lightnings, and by the voice of tempests, and by the voice of earthquakes, and great hailstorms, and by the voice of famines and pestilences of every kind, … and would have saved you with an everlasting salvation, but ye would not!” (D&C 43:23, 25).

These signs of the Second Coming are all around us and seem to be increasing in frequency and intensity. For example, the list of major earthquakes in The World Almanac and Book of Facts, 2004 shows twice as many earthquakes in the decades of the 1980s and 1990s as in the two preceding decades (pp. 189–90). It also shows further sharp increases in the first several years of this century. The list of notable floods and tidal waves and the list of hurricanes, typhoons, and blizzards worldwide show similar increases in recent years (pp. 188–89). Increases by comparison with 50 years ago can be dismissed as changes in reporting criteria, but the accelerating pattern of natural disasters in the last few decades is ominous.

"We are living in the prophesied time “when peace shall be taken from the earth” (D&C 1:35), when “all things shall be in commotion” and “men’s hearts shall fail them” (D&C 88:91). There are many temporal causes of commotion, including wars and natural disasters, but an even greater cause of current “commotion” is spiritual."

Do we dare say He is wrong? If so then our testimony of the church is in vain.

I will not lean on the arm of flesh but I will hearken to God's mouthpieces on earth. I will not deny their testimony that "These signs of the Second Coming are all around us" and we "We are living in the prophesied time".

We are being called to repentance will we listen?

Edited April 18, 2010 by Rosabella

[Rosabella]

Elder George Q. Cannon:

"As it was in the days of Noah. The inhabitants of the earth did this in the days of Noah. They did not believe there would be any flood. They went on enjoying themselves in their way, notwithstanding the message that Noah delivered to them. But still the flood came, and the hardened nations were drowned, and the earth was cleansed from their presence.

In these last days the Lord has made many predictions concerning the judgments with which mankind shall be visited if they would not repent. Destruction should come upon them as a whirlwind. In the very beginning and before this Church was organized the Lord foretold what would happen if the people hardened their hearts against the testimony of His servants. He said:

For a desolating scourge shall go forth among the inhabitants of the earth, and shall continue to be poured out from time to time, if they repent not, until the earth is empty, and the inhabitants thereof are consumed away and utterly destroyed by the brightness of my coming. Behold, I tell you these things, even as I also told the people of the destruction of Jerusalem; and my word shall be verified at this time as it hath heretofore been verified. (D&C 5:19-20.)

These are the words of Him who rules and who does not speak in vain. Whether the world heed or believe them or not, they will be fulfilled as surely as were the words of the Lord in the days of Noah. (Dec. 15, 1900, JI 35:825) "

I choose to hearken as those that got on the Ark did.

Edited April 18, 2010 by Rosabella

[Dravin]

These signs of the Second Coming are all around us and seem to be increasing in frequency and intensity.

That little phrase means something.

As it was in the days of Noah. The inhabitants of the earth did this in the days of Noah. They did not believe there would be any flood. They went on enjoying themselves in their way, notwithstanding the message that Noah delivered to them. But still the flood came, and the hardened nations were drowned, and the earth was cleansed from their presence.

I don't think anyone here is denying that earthquakes will happen in preparation for the second coming (amongst the believers in the forum at least) so your quote isn't particularly applicable.

[Rosabella]

Using your terms (this little phrase means something) "These signs of the Second Coming are all around us" That is my point. They are around us.

If speaking of Noah is not applicable then why did Elder Cannon talk about it while he was talking about the present?

An age of disasters. An age of disasters is the present. All the signs foretold by the Savior and the Prophets which were to precede the second coming of the Lord are being witnessed at the present time. The news that comes to us every day over the wires brings word of calamities of every description. We hear of cyclones, of shipwrecks, of floods, of the sea heaving itself beyond its bounds, of earthquakes, of collisions upon railroads, of murders and suicides, of wars and rumors of wars, until the ear is vexed with the tidings. We read of more calamities in one day than formerly were known in a month. Yet, these things have come along so gradually that men attach NO importance to them. Though they are intended as signs of the coming of the Lord and the near approach of the end, mankind fail to perceive in these events any of the signs which the Prophets have described. (Oct. 1, 1889, JI 24:452)

My point is that we dismiss the very warnings that we have been told would and do exist to show we are in the Last days. We dismiss them as they always have occurred and the second coming has not happened, nor do we think it will in our day. What I am trying to say is are we listening truly to the Prophets when they say the time is near. It should be apparent I have used quotes from 100 years ago to show that it was present then as it is present now. That does not mean Christ will come tomorrow or this year or in the next 10 years etc. What I am saying is so many disregard the signs around us as nothing, yet we are told directly they are the signs.

I think it is highly relevant to use Noah as an example for he hearkened to the Lord. Those in his family hearkened to him as a prophet. I am not saying that all on this forum are asserting that there will be no second coming, but I am asking are we ready? Do we understand the signs? Do we accept that it could be sooner than we think? Primarily I am asking are we doing the very thing we are told we would do to brush off all the signs of the times with scientific excuses or any other excuses as we are warned not to? It does not matter to me if these are warning signs of 20 , 50 , 100 years out, want concerns me is people forget God is behind them and therefore do not repent and get their houses in order. They dismiss that these are the acts of God regarding the idea as silliness or some kind of paranoid superstition.

I read the thread on "If you obey the commandments you'll prosper in the land" and it became very evident that God's hand in all things is mocked. So I started this thread to ask whether we are recognizing God's prophecies being fulfilled or not.

My point is in and outside the Church people say the earthquakes are nothing but just nature and have no spiritual meaning, yet Prophets keep telling us they do today not in the future but today. Earthquakes will get worse before the second coming, but that does not lessen the fact that the ones that are happening now are also signs preceding the second coming. We cannot dismiss them so easily, especially when the Prophet and Apostles have told us not to.

[marts1]

One thing that has my attention moreso are the problems people are having with day to day life. I read last week, a judge advised people in the area to buy a gun if you don't already have one, for your own protection. Is there somewhere in the states that has a law, you are required to have a gun in residence? Stuff like this has been foretold as well.

[Justice]

I like Elder Cannon, he's in my line of authority. :)

[Rosabella]

I like Elder Cannon, he's in my line of authority. :)

That is really neat! :)

I find him to be very articulate and direct in stating the doctrines of the Church.

I love reading conference reports and writings from all the GAs from all eras of Church history. I have found so many wonderful insights and answers to questions. So many things we wonder about have already been addressed. We only need look for the answer.

I am a researcher and have found that the Lord has not left us in the dark on our questions but has revealed much through His mouthpieces. When I have any question on a topic I research all I can to find out what has been said on the topic. I take a Prophets or GA's words to heart and have found them to be an incredible resource for understanding all areas of inquiry including questions about the last-days.

[Rosabella]

One thing that has my attention moreso are the problems people are having with day to day life. I read last week, a judge advised people in the area to buy a gun if you don't already have one, for your own protection. Is there somewhere in the states that has a law, you are required to have a gun in residence? Stuff like this has been foretold as well.

Thanks for bringing more into this thread. My intent is not just to discuss earthquakes but all the things we have been warned of yet seem to disregard.

If I can ask, what are you referring to when you speak of "Stuff like that being foretold"? Are you referring to the fact that all that will not take arms up against their neighbors must flee to Zion or is it something else?

I am not familiar with a law that says one must have a gun, but am very familiar with places that have outlawed owning a gun.

[Dravin]

If speaking of Noah is not applicable then why did Elder Cannon talk about it while he was talking about the present?

Because believing folks here aren't denying that earthquakes will be/are a sign of the second coming, nor that earthquakes have happened, are happening, or will happen. It has nothing to do with present versus past.

I'm probably misreading you, I've had to deal with people claiming earthquakes have increased exponentially over the past 10 years or that this year's quakes are a freak occurrence outside the expected range of such things. They then quote scripture/talks about earthquakes being a sign of the second coming as if it counteracts the actual counting and science that has taken place. Earthquakes will get worse, they will be/are a sign of the second coming. But the fact they are a sign does not make geologists wrong when they factually report that the current behavior is not outside of statistical norms nor has there been some crazy jump in the number of earthquakes. Even a Noahite meteorologist could have looked at the sky a week before the flood and declared, "Nope, no flood yet." And he wouldn't have been incorrect.

So we might just be talking past each other.

Edited April 18, 2010 by Dravin

[Elgama]

Actually I think sometimes Latter Day Saints are so busy looking for the bad we miss the good. We have nothing to fear if we follow the commandments and listen to the Lord. Around us much good is happening, we have individual prophecies etc I have situation in my life where the Lord has promised terrible calamities on my enemies but it doesn't matter its for him to do and me to get on with my life.... I know what he has prophecised is going to happen

Around us everyday the Lord works miracles, its much easier to miss them.

[mrmarklin]

Anyone living now who cannot see the signs of the times is blind indeed.

Forget earthquakes: We've always had them, it's just that with modern communications they seem more frequent.

What are the more important signs?

The gathering of the Jews in their homeland only since 1948 has this been possible.

The preaching of the gospel to all the world. Only relatively recently has this been possible with the breakup of communism, monarchies etc, and now the challenge and pending liberalization of Islam (perhaps not in my lifetime), India and China. Remember the prophecy in Daniel: The gospel will fill the whole world. This can only happen in a liberal environment, God will not force anyone to come to Him; it must be a free choice.

The strength and might of the US in preparation for the New Jerusalem, and protection of the Church as a refuge against the greater world.

We are literally seeing God's plan unfold before our eyes in the last half of the 20th century and now the 21st.

At current growth rates the Church will be as big as Islam in another century or so, making Joseph Smith the greatest man of the 19th century in retropect.

Edited April 19, 2010 by mrmarklin

[Elphaba]

At current growth rates the Church will be as big as Islam in another century or so, making Joseph Smith the greatest man of the 19th century in retropect.

Do you have a reference for this? It's my understanding the Church continues to grow, but at a very low rate.

Elphaba

[GADBabaganoosh]

People will take up the sword one against another. I fully beleive that reports weren't as accurate, that is to say, 100's of years ago. 50 years ago, i would call them accurate. Regardless, the insane amount of earthquakes and hurricanes is staggering. How many did we have in the past FEW WEEKS. Every week i was hearing of not one earthquake somewhere but SEVERAL. They HAVE to be increasing, i don't recall in recent years the absurd amount of earthquakes, and most of all, the size of the earthquakes. These ARE signs of the lord's coming.

[Starberry]

yeah and we had a 4.5 here in utah a couple of days ago, still waiting for the big one though.

I've allways been taught to look and listen for signs. I wish other people would pay more attention and not fear it. And just because all these disasters are happening shouldn't make us stop our lives. You should ive your life the same way you would if you had 100 years to live, even if you know you are going to die soon. The lord does not want us to lay on the groud and give up.

[marts1]

It's not about giving up, it's about waking up. :)

[marts1]

If I can ask, what are you referring to when you speak of "Stuff like that being foretold"? Are you referring to the fact that all that will not take arms up against their neighbors must flee to Zion or is it something else?

Something like that yes. Another thing that will happen is 2 prophets will be killed in the streets Jerusalem.

[Snow]

I hear many say the earthquakes we see in the world today are not proof of God's judgments but merely we are recording more now or that they are caused by Global warming or even a government secret project called HARRP. Are we not just making excuses not to see the Lord's hand in these things? Are we not just doing as Elder Cannon said we would do, denying the hand of God in the events of our days?

HUH?

Are you implying that God is indiscriminately killing good and bad people as part of some judgement by supernaturally causing earthquakes?

Oy Vey!

1. Do you seriously believe in a God that is so unjust that he kills innocent people because he is mad at other people? I hope not. The Christian God is supposed to be good, not evil.

2. I doubt that anyone is so ignorant that they think earthquakes are caused by global warming.

3. There is no increase in the incidence of earthquakes (according to the United States Geological Survey) so the whole point is wrong.

[Snow]

For me personally being LDS the words of Prophets declaring this as part of the signs is all I need to know that it is exactly that.

So the truth isn't important to you? The demonstrable truth is that earthquakes aren't increasing.

Why let the facts get in the way of a little dogma.

[Rosabella]

HUH?

Are you implying that God is indiscriminately killing good and bad people as part of some judgement by supernaturally causing earthquakes?

Oy Vey!

1. Do you seriously believe in a God that is so unjust that he kills innocent people because he is mad at other people? I hope not. The Christian God is supposed to be good, not evil.

2. I doubt that anyone is so ignorant that they think earthquakes are caused by global warming.

3. There is no increase in the incidence of earthquakes (according to the United States Geological Survey) so the whole point is wrong.

God is not unjust. We do not know all the reasons of why certain things that apper to us as unfair are truly good and God's will.

We are clearly warned that if we do not follow His commandments we will receive of His wrath. It is said it is to call us to repentance. Earthquakes are one of the things stated in the scripture as one of the ways God calls man to repentance.

We must remember the salvation of a soul is far greater than the salvation of ones temporal life. What is our temporal life worth if we lost our eternal life? We have example after example of the Lord pouring out His wrath upon the world. It is done with love for higher purposes that we do not always understand. Death is nothing to fear if one is repentant.

The Lord allows martyrdom also of the faithful of God. One could say that is cruel and that He should spare them. Many martyrs have willingly sacrificed their lives for their belief in God.

http://http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&locale=0&sourceId=b02d56627ab94210VgnVCM100000176f620a____&vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD

Dallin H. Oaks, “Love and Law,” Ensign, Nov 2009, 26–29

We read again and again in the Bible and in modern scriptures of God’s anger with the wicked and of His acting in His wrath against those who violate His laws. How are anger and wrath evidence of His love? Joseph Smith taught that God “institute[d] laws whereby [the spirits that He would send into the world] could have a privilege to advance like himself.” God’s love is so perfect that He lovingly requires us to obey His commandments because He knows that only through obedience to His laws can we become perfect, as He is. For this reason, God’s anger and His wrath are not a contradiction of His love but an evidence of His love.

Will good people be caught in these judgments? Yes sadly some will, but all things are known to the Lord and done by His great wisdom and will. If I am killed in one of the exercises of God's wrath upon the wicked but I am righteous, then all is well. I do not fear death. I know my days are numbered unto the Lord and I will live exactly the length of time that He wills me to. I will happily work on this side of the veil or the other side of the veil for His Kingdom, it mattereth not to me.

[Blake]

We are the ones who incorrectly judge God to be Evil if he allows a good person to die early. From God's infinite perspective, it is not an injustice at all. Our lives belong to God, not to us. Lots of good people suffer untimely death for various reasons, any of which could be prevented by the Lord if he so willed it. That he does not always will it is evidence that His love for us is not attenuated by the fact that he sometimes ends a person's mortality early. If God is fulfilling his prophetic words that he would cause earthquakes and destructions in the last days as a testimony to the World and a call to repentence, then surely he has accounted for any good people that may die in these events and his plan for their individual lives takes their untimely death into account.

A sweet and dedicated sister missionary over whom I had responsibility as a district leader on my mission was killed in an accident while serving. She did nothing to deserve this and I know God could have spared her if he had willed it. When I learned later that the Love of her life, a wonderful young man she had known in her home country, had been killed only a year before her mission began during a civil war, I began to understand that perhaps her untimely death was a way she could be reunited with him. Her death may have been truly a blessing for her, to ensure that she and her Love could be sealed.

Death is not to be feared and is sometimes an act of mercy. Perhaps there are some who are not meant to face the intense persecutions of the final days and are mercifully taken off the earth by natural disasters before those persecutions begin. I trust Heavenly Father and Christ to make the right decision regarding the life span of every person. If God were to take my life, I would gratefully accept His will and trust that it was only in my very best interest and that of my family.

[Rosabella]

So the truth isn't important to you? The demonstrable truth is that earthquakes aren't increasing.

Why let the facts get in the way of a little dogma.

Because true facts come from God not man.