D&C 132:26-27 Stumped

[TheAngelPalmoni]

26 Verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man marry a wife according to my word, and they are sealed by the aHoly Spirit of promise, according to mine appointment, and he or she shall commit any sin or transgression of the new and everlasting covenant whatever, and all manner of blasphemies, and if they bcommit no murder wherein they shed innocent blood, yet they shall come forth in the first resurrection, and enter into their exaltation; but they shall be destroyed in the flesh, and shall be cdelivered unto the buffetings of dSatan unto the day of eredemption, saith the Lord God.

27 The ablasphemy against the Holy Ghost, which shall bnot be cforgiven in the world nor out of the world, is in that ye commit dmurder wherein ye shed innocent blood, and assent unto my death, after ye have received my new and everlasting covenant, saith the Lord God; and he that abideth not this law can in nowise enter into my glory, but shall be edamned, saith the Lord.

I have been studying this for about a week, I am still lost...

Help?

[MarginOfError]

I'm not sure where you're lost. What exactly is confusing you?

[Traveler]

26 Verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man marry a wife according to my word, and they are sealed by the aHoly Spirit of promise, according to mine appointment, and he or she shall commit any sin or transgression of the new and everlasting covenant whatever, and all manner of blasphemies, and if they bcommit no murder wherein they shed innocent blood, yet they shall come forth in the first resurrection, and enter into their exaltation; but they shall be destroyed in the flesh, and shall be cdelivered unto the buffetings of dSatan unto the day of eredemption, saith the Lord God.

27 The ablasphemy against the Holy Ghost, which shall bnot be cforgiven in the world nor out of the world, is in that ye commit dmurder wherein ye shed innocent blood, and assent unto my death, after ye have received my new and everlasting covenant, saith the Lord God; and he that abideth not this law can in nowise enter into my glory, but shall be edamned, saith the Lord.

I have been studying this for about a week, I am still lost...

Help?

Simple - just think covenant. As long as the covenant is in tact the glory of the covenant will remain - destroy the covenant and you will be damned.

The Traveler

[Just_A_Guy]

26 Verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man marry a wife according to my word, and they are sealed by the aHoly Spirit of promise, according to mine appointment, and he or she shall commit any sin or transgression of the new and everlasting covenant whatever, and all manner of blasphemies, and if they bcommit no murder wherein they shed innocent blood, yet they shall come forth in the first resurrection, and enter into their exaltation; but they shall be destroyed in the flesh, and shall be cdelivered unto the buffetings of dSatan unto the day of eredemption, saith the Lord God.

27 The ablasphemy against the Holy Ghost, which shall bnot be cforgiven in the world nor out of the world, is in that ye commit dmurder wherein ye shed innocent blood, and assent unto my death, after ye have received my new and everlasting covenant, saith the Lord God; and he that abideth not this law can in nowise enter into my glory, but shall be edamned, saith the Lord.

I have been studying this for about a week, I am still lost...

Help?

As I understand it, the key phrase here is according to mine appointment, which refers to having one's calling and election made sure. Here's a good starting point for study on that topic.

Edited April 23, 2010 by Just_A_Guy

[TheAngelPalmoni]

Yes I am familiar with Calling and Election and I understand that it is like unto fast forwarding your judgement. Right now our options are CEL TER TEL but I doubt we are capable of becoming a son of perdition unless our Calling and Election is made sure. Once your calling and Election is made sure your options are either the CEL or Outer Darkness. So what I am confused about is if you sin at all after your Calling and election is made sure are you meant to suffer for those sins? Destroyed in the Flesh? Buffetings (beating) of Satan?

[TheAngelPalmoni]

Does this mean you must be married to receive your calling and election?

[Guest mysticmorini]

does this mean you must be married to receive your calling and election?

yes

[Just_A_Guy]

yes

I agree.

So what I am confused about is if you sin at all after your Calling and election is made sure are you meant to suffer for those sins? Destroyed in the Flesh? Buffetings (beating) of Satan?

I'd like to think not, but the plain text of the statements I've seen on the issue would seem to indicate that the answer is "yes".

[Guest]

I'd like to think not, but the plain text of the statements I've seen on the issue would seem to indicate that the answer is "yes".

JAG, I believe it is "yes" too by virtue of God having to make the promise to David that he will not leave him in darkness. It tells me that David has to be in darkness for a time.

[HEthePrimate]

Take away lesson: "Don't murder anybody!"

Honestly, I think that's the main point. David was a good king, was popular with the people, and intimate with God. He thought this put him above the law, slept with another man's wife, murdered Uriah, and subsequently learned that God doesn't play favorites. Past good service doesn't excuse wickedness.

Having one's 'calling and election' made sure does NOT mean you can get away with anything except this, that, or the other.

HEP

[Just_A_Guy]

I don't think David had his calling and election made sure. The sum and essence of that is hearing the voice of Jesus Christ Himself saying, "Son, thou shalt be exalted".

I could have sworn there's a Joseph Smith quote out there saying that David lost his exaltation and will inherit, at best, a telestial glory.

[HEthePrimate]

I don't think David had his calling and election made sure. The sum and essence of that is hearing the voice of Jesus Christ Himself saying, "Son, thou shalt be exalted".

I could have sworn there's a Joseph Smith quote out there saying that David lost his exaltation and will inherit, at best, a telestial glory.

Maybe not, but I think my point remains valid. Sometimes when listening to discussions about 'calling and election made sure,' I think people are a little too intrigued by the idea of being able to 'get away' with all kinds of sins, short of murder, if you know what I mean. If we're trying to get away with all kinds of stuff, we don't deserve to have our calling and election made sure, even if we never kill anybody.

HEP

[marts1]

This scripture puzzles me too.

[TheAngelPalmoni]

So that being said I've had a few members bring this up and say that this is why they know they will be in the CEL kingdom... So they don't really understand Holy Spirit of Promise as Calling and Election. Someone else said that this is why we know that Joseph Smith's wife Emma is in the CEL kingdom with him.

I understand the progression from outside the church (light of Christ) to inside the church (Gift of the Holy Ghost = Spirit of Christ = Fire = Grace... ect) and then from inside the church to your calling and Election ( Fullness of the Holy Ghost, Holy Spirit of Promise, ... ect)

So it is frustrating that most members don't see a difference in any of these and just call all three the Holy Ghost or the Holy Spirit or just the Spirit. Which isn't wrong but is just like calling a Ferrari a car and a Topaz a car like there is no difference... WE are members of the true church and we should understand that there are different levels of the spirit and that these different levels have different jobs in the plan of salvation. It's a stretch to get people to see them all as organizations of intelligences but that is way down the road i think.

This Scripture is frustrating because I still can't quite grasp what it means... and I know there is a correct meaning and I know I will find it, just that long journey getting there is always frustrating.

[Jamie123]

It's the "verily verily" bit that puzzles me...

[Hemidakota]

26 Verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man marry a wife according to my word, and they are sealed by the aHoly Spirit of promise, according to mine appointment, and he or she shall commit any sin or transgression of the new and everlasting covenant whatever, and all manner of blasphemies, and if they bcommit no murder wherein they shed innocent blood, yet they shall come forth in the first resurrection, and enter into their exaltation; but they shall be destroyed in the flesh, and shall be cdelivered unto the buffetings of dSatan unto the day of eredemption, saith the Lord God.

27 The ablasphemy against the Holy Ghost, which shall bnot be cforgiven in the world nor out of the world, is in that ye commit dmurder wherein ye shed innocent blood, and assent unto my death, after ye have received my new and everlasting covenant, saith the Lord God; and he that abideth not this law can in nowise enter into my glory, but shall be edamned, saith the Lord.

I have been studying this for about a week, I am still lost...

Help?

I always appreciate your manual done posters and insight to the gospel. Often times myself, I do questioned scriptures and turned to those who sought to answer them by the Spirit.

To give insight from past presidents of the church concerning these two verses, here is what they have to say:

Joseph Smith - The unpardonable sin is to shed innocent blood, or be accessory thereto. All other sins will be visited with judgment in the flesh, and the spirit being delivered to the buffetings of Satan until the day of the Lord Jesus. (HC 5:391-92, May 13, 1843.)

Harold B. Lee - It's possible for every church member to live perfectly the law of marriage, celestial marriage, to learn the duty of husband to wife, wife to husband, parents to children. It's possible for us to learn it perfectly. Some folks have the mistaken notion that if somehow, by hook or crook, they can get into the House of the Lord and be married they are assured of exaltation regardless of what they do, and they'll quote the 132 Section, the 26th verse. But that isn't what the Lord means. The Lord does assure an exaltation to those who make mistakes, if they repent. (BYU Speeches of the Year, January 5, 1954, p. 7.)

Joseph Fielding Smith - I will make an explanation of the expression, "Sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise." This does not have reference to marriage for time and all eternity only, but to every ordinance and blessing of the gospel. Baptism into the Church is sealed by this Spirit, likewise confirmation, ordination, and all ordinances as well as marriage for time and all eternity.

The meaning of this expression is this: Every covenant, contract, bond, obligation, oath, vow, and performance, that man receives through the covenants and blessings of the gospel, is sealed by the Holy Spirit with a promise. The promise is that the blessing will be obtained, if those who seek it are true and faithful to the end. If they are not faithful, then the Holy Spirit will withdraw the blessing, and the promise comes to an end. [sec. 76:50-54; 88:3-5; 124:124; 132:7; Moses 6:60.]

Verse 26, in Section 132, is the most abused passage in any scripture. The Lord has never promised any soul that he may be taken into exaltation without the spirit of repentance. While repentance is not stated in this passage, yet it is, and must be, implied. It is strange to me that everyone knows about verse 26, but it seems that they have never read or heard of Matthew 12:31-32, where the Lord tells us the same thing in substance as we find in verse 26, Section 132.

It is wrong to take one passage of scripture and isolate it from all other teachings dealing with the same subject. We should bring together all that has been said by authority on the question. . . .

The Lord said by his own mouth:

"And he that endureth not unto the end, the same is he that is also hewn down and cast into the fire, from whence they can no more return, because of the justice of the Father. And this is the word which he hath given unto the children of men. And for this cause he fulfilleth the words which he hath given, and he lieth not, but fulfilleth all his words. And no unclean thing can enter into his kingdom; therefore nothing entereth into his rest save it be those who have washed their garments in my blood, because of their faith, and the repentance of all their sins, and their faithfulness unto the end." [3 Nephi 27:17-19.]

So we must conclude that those spoken of in verse 26 are those who, having sinned, have fully repented and are willing to pay the price of their sinning, else the blessings of exaltation will not follow. Repentance is absolutely necessary for the forgiveness, and the person having sinned must be cleansed.

John said:

"There is a sin unto death." "If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it." [1 John 5:16.]

The Lord, in verse 27, has pointed out some sins unto death for which there is no forgiveness. It will do no good for one to pray for his brother for forgiveness from such a sin. All other sins, including blasphemy against the Son of God, may be forgiven men, on their true repentance. If they do not repent, then no matter what the sin may be, or the covenant violated, the guilty party or parties will never enter into the kingdom of God!

Here is something which those who contend that the Lord has granted immunity from their sins to some, if they have received certain sealings by the Holy Spirit of promise, have overlooked in this passage. I will call attention to these two things. If covenants are broken and enormous sins are committed, but not unto death, there are certain punishments to be inflicted. The mere confession is not enough; the sinners are: 1—to "be destroyed in the flesh"; 2—to "be delivered unto the buffetings of Satan unto the day of redemption."

Who in the world is so foolish as to wish to sin with the hope of forgiveness, if such a penalty is to be inflicted? No one but a fool! To be "destroyed in the flesh" means exactly that. We cannot destroy men in the flesh, because we do not control the lives of men and do not have power to pass sentences upon them which involve capital punishment. In the days when there was a theocracy on the earth, then this decree was enforced. [Gen. 9:4-6; Lev. 20:10.] What the Lord will do in lieu of this because we cannot destroy in the flesh, I am unable to say, but it will have to be made up in some other way.

Then to be turned over to the buffetings of Satan unto the day of redemption, which is the resurrection, must be something horrible in its nature. Who wishes to endure such torment? No one but a fool! I have seen their anguish. I have heard their pleadings for relief and their pitiful cries that they cannot endure the torment. This was in this life. Add to that, the torment in the spirit world before the redemption comes—all of this, mark you, coming after severe and humble repentance!

Some among us have the idea that to confess their sins with their lips and to turn away from them constitutes all that is required of the repentant. This is not always so. It is our duty to forgive, but the Lord may require a severe penalty after this humble repentance. David sorely repented; read some of his Psalms and realize how he cried in anguish for relief; yet we understand that he is paying the price to this day and will until the Son of God comes to relieve him. [Psalms 16:10; 51:1-19; Acts 2:29, 34.]

I said that when the Lord ruled in a theocracy that punishment by death was the edict for certain crimes. Here is an example: "And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death." [Lev. 20:10.] There were also other crimes for which this penalty was exacted. [Rom. 1:28-32; Ex. 35:2; Deut. 13:1-11; 17:1-7; 21:20-23.]

No, the Lord has not prepared for favoritism. He has not placed exemption upon some because they have received marriage for time and for all eternity and had it sealed by the "Holy Spirit of promise." He has not given them the privilege of blaspheming his name, of committing any sin whatever, and then coming forth to receive an exaltation. We should all be grateful for the wonderful principle of repentance; we all need it. But we must not lose sight of the fact that the celestial kingdom is reserved for those who are sanctified and none others. Read Mormon 9:3-4.

Let it be remembered also that those who sin must repent in this life; if they die in their sins, unrepentant, then no matter what blessings they have received, they are not reinstated. [Alma 34:31-35; 3 Nephi 12:20; 27:17-19.]

When a man and a woman, in all sincerity, enter into a covenant of marriage for time and all eternity (and after they have "overcome by faith," and are "just and true"), [sec. 76:54] the Holy Ghost—who is the Spirit of promise—bears record of or ratifies that sealing. In other words, he seals the promises appertaining to the marriage covenant upon them.

Now the Lord has said: "But there is a possibility that man may fall from grace and depart from the listing God; Therefore let the church take heed and pray always, lest they fall into temptation; Yea, and even let those who are sanctified take heed also." [sec. 20:31-34.]

If one or both of these covenanting persons break that covenant by which they are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, then the Spirit withdraws the seal and the guilty party, or parties, stand as if there had been no sealing or promise given. All covenants are sealed based upon faithfulness.

Should a person endeavor to receive the sealing blessing by fraud, then the blessing is not sealed, notwithstanding the integrity and authority of the person officiating. Instead of a blessing they will receive a cursing, the heaviest of all. [sec. 41:1.] Therefore, a person who may deceive the bishop or any other officer, will stand condemned before the Lord, for he cannot be deceived and justice will be meted to all. (Doctrines of Salvation, 1955, 2:94-99.)

[Matthew0059]

Hemi:

THANK YOU for those wonderful quotes!!

AngelPalmoni:

What I take away from Doctrine and Covenants 132:26-27 is this:

-Those who enter into all the covenants required and are sealed to exaltation through the Holy Spirit of Promise are guaranteed eventual exaltation no matter their later actions EXCEPTING they commit murder, are willing accessories to it, or deny the Holy Ghost.

-Those who have their calling and election made sure and later sin grievous sins but do NOT commit murder/blaspheme against the Holy Ghost will, depending on the severity of the sin and the level of repentance, come forth after the ressurection of the Just (I interpret that to mean the ressurection at the Second Coming, before Christ's rein in the Millenium). I think that most will be ressurected at the ressurection of the unjust after the millenium, but this scripture doesn't clearly teach that. Until they are ressurected, they are privy to Satan's buffetings.

[rameumptom]

We will all suffer in hell, in Spirit Prison, for any and all unrepented sins. This is where the buffetings of Satan occur (if not in this world). When people have lived very righteously, and sin, they can still be forgiven and exalted. But they will pay for the sin.

The second verse is regarding sons of perdition. These will go to Outer Darkness, the eternal hell. Such have received a fullness of testimony of Christ, and then become his complete and total enemy, sealing it with murder of the innocent.

[rameumptom]

I have yet to read anything from Joseph Smith stating that David will only gain a telestial glory. Now, many apostles, including Bruce R. McConkie and Spencer W. Kimball have believed and taught that. However, the only thing the scriptures actually teach is that he lost his exaltation. That leaves a lot of room for David in several kingdoms of glory.

[Hemidakota]

I concur with President Kimball's assessment with David fate.

[rameumptom]

I don't concur with Pres Kimball's assessment of David's fate. I think his beliefs, written as an apostle, were based upon the harsh concepts pushed in the LDS Church 1/2 century ago. The Church has gained greater insight into many things in the past 50 years, making many previous assumptions made by Church leaders no longer necessarily valid.

For example, Elder McConkie used to teach that the Terrestrial and Telestial kingdoms were terrible places to go to, basically a new form of hell. But that is not what the scriptures teach. He was going with what he was taught in his day, where eisegesis (interpreting scripture into your own viewpoint) was highly used in the Church. For over a century, GAs fought to have their view of the holy writ to be the Church's stance. From Brigham Young and Orson Pratt disagreeing over what "eternal progression" means (Brigham Young won back then, but we now view it as Orson Pratt does), to the fights between Joseph F Smith and James Talmage/B.H. Roberts/John Widtsoe on evolution and other ideas, to Ezra Taft Benson vs Hugh B Brown on Constitutional/political ideas, we can see how everyone wrote books to push their own viewpoints. Some of those viewpoints won out, at least for a time, but were replaced later as the Church's understanding matured.

As a Church, we no longer believe, as Brigham Young insisted, that God is continually learning new things. Instead, we agree with Orson Pratt that God progresses in his kingdoms and dominions expanding.

Joseph F Smith gained a large following on evolution. This was later promoted by his son, Joseph Fielding Smith, and his son-in-law Bruce R. McConkie. However, few today quote Elder McConkie's 7 Deadly Heresies talk, as evidence against evolution.

Pres Benson's political views, which he did not espouse as prophet, are now being quoted by fewer and fewer members. We now get a wide range of opinions on politics among membership, from Harry Reid to Glenn Beck.

And instead of the 1960s push on obedience and limited grace, and that the lower kingdoms are equivalent to hell; we now are focusing more on the atonement of Christ and what it does for us. Modern apostles tell us that more than just resurrection is a free gift. We now teach what the scriptures teach, that the Telestial and Terrestrial are kingdoms of glory, not hell.

And I think that the harsh judgments placed on David by former Church leaders will prove to be wrong. Christ's atonement must be able to atone for all sins that people repent of, otherwise he is not the all powerful Redeemer. Why should we limit Christ by statements that are not based clearly on scripture nor modern revelation?

[Just_A_Guy]

We will all suffer in hell, in Spirit Prison, for any and all unrepented sins. This is where the buffetings of Satan occur (if not in this world).

Can you flesh this out, please? The traditional version, of course, is that only the telestial suffer the buffetings of Satan in the spirit world, and D&C 76:81-85 would seem to support this view.

[Hemidakota]

Remember, being called an Apostle, they are still considered ‘prophets, seers, and revelators.’ If any Apostle acting in that office under the direction of the Spirit on issue, topic, or past historical writings, that is doctrinal scripture, written or not. However, using your own assessment, I could apply this same sample to any of Paul's epistles given in the New Testament and not consider any of them as canonized writings or calling Paul an Apostle.

Any man that has seen the Celestial Kingdom by the Spirit will attest after comparing it to any lower orders will agree to his statement, which also includes Kimball’s statement concerning the differences by his own observation. How Bruce approach this observation in writing may not be clear enough for the masses, but it remains truism and clear to me. Now, have you witness the splendid glory of the Celestial Glory? After witnessing all three glories, how would you approach it from a person who has witnessed it? What would be your response of receiving anything less from that level glory that was shown? For me! It would be HELL. HELL for me is being outside of FATHER’s and His Son presence after experiencing it. As there are specific writings that Elder McConkie left that I do not endorse after witnessing it for myself. Yet, I am fallible as he was.

Regarding “God is continually learning new things”, remember, clarity of writings was not President Young’s exclusive talent. Many of my own writings are not clear either as I would describe specific topic. Even I stated, I do hold a major in English and have to correct my own writings. Is it experiences being stated here? GOD does grow in experiences as each world comes into creation and passes into history by HIS own hand. We also know, HIS knowledge for HIS realm is complete. But progression does not end with the Celestial Kingdom. This itself is a topic that has been discussed many times here.

Getting back to David’s case, he sought repentance afterwards unto his last breath. Not receiving the full weight of glory and sealing portion, he only lost half of his glory to another who lives this day as stated by the Master. Losing half of your glory, do you suspect he will be allowed to inherit the Celestial Kingdom? Is there a state in this kingdom where David would be allowed to inherit? Can Son of GOD override this severe eternal penalty of a murder by a person who had knowledge and principle of the gospel? Knowing that David will receive any kingdom is truly marvelous to see the workings of the Atonement and the love the Godhead for this brother.

We only seek to know of truths as they related to our edification and salvation. It is by the grace of the Master that allows us to see anything outside of this for His wise purpose we do not know until that epiphany occurs in our lives.

[marts1]

Ram, your post reminds me too much of the many church's who don't believe in revelation.

[Hemidakota]

Quoted from the 'Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith' by Joseph Fielding Smith, Joseph Smith; page 339 -

Murderers Have No Forgiveness

A murderer, for instance, one that sheds innocent blood, cannot have forgiveness. David sought repentance at the hand of God carefully with tears, for the murder of Uriah; but he could only get it through hell: he got a promise that his soul should not be left in hell.

Although David was a king, he never did obtain the spirit and power of Elijah and the fullness of the Priesthood; and the Priesthood that he received, and the throne and kingdom of David is to be taken from him and given to another by the name of David in the last days, raised up out of his lineage.

[HD-IMHO this young man is currently member of the church and does not know it but the House of Israel will bow down at his feet].

Peter referred to the same subject on the day of Pentecost, but the multitude did not get the endowment that Peter had; but several days after, the people asked, "What shall we do?" Peter says, "I would ye had done it ignorantly," speaking of crucifying the Lord &c. He did not say to them, "Repent and be baptized for the remission of your sins"; but he said, "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord." (Acts 3:19.)

This is the case with murderers. They could not be baptized for the remission of sins, for they had shed innocent blood.

Again: The doctrine or sealing power of Elijah is as follows:

—If you have power to seal on earth and in heaven, then we should be wise. The first thing you do, go and seal on earth your sons and daughters unto yourself, and yourself unto your fathers in eternal glory, and go ahead, and not go back, but use a little wisdom, and seal all you can, and when you get to heaven tell your Father that what you seal on earth should be sealed in heaven, according to his promise. I will walk through the gate of heaven and claim what I seal, and those that follow me and my counsel.

The Lord once told me that what I asked for I should have. I have been afraid to ask God to kill my enemies, lest some of them should, peradventure, repent.

I asked a short time since for the Lord to deliver me out of the hands of the Governor of Missouri, and if it needs must be to accomplish it, to take him away; and the next news that came pouring down from there was, that Governor Reynolds had shot himself. And I would now say, Beware, O earth, how you fight against the Saints of God and shed innocent blood; for in the days of Elijah, his enemies came upon him, and fire was called down from heaven and destroyed them.