Where do I go from here with church

[Elgama]

It looks like we may be moved units, and things will remain the same in my branch. I am finding it very difficult to understand that someone can bully and as long as they are a church member we are expected to take it, I am also finding it very difficult to understand that the children even after a year are still in a dangerous position.

Its made worse by the fact for the second time a member of the Stake Presidency has spoken to my husband because he is head of the family, yet no one has spoken to me. It was ME who sent the email refusing to sustain people, it was ME that was present at most of the events and ME it happened too. My husband says if I continue to push I am going to look like a raving nut case, but so far the only priesthood local leader to communicate with me has chosen to shout and disrespect and humiliate me at every opportunity. I really feel like no one who should give a damn does and I am struggling right now not to get too angry. Is it such a crime for me to ask my priesthood leaders to just spend ten minutes out of a year listening to me? I am right now seriously regretting not involving the authorities.

It feels very unjust all of this/

[FunkyTown]

If it's serious enough to involve the authorities: Involve the authorities, Gams.

You owe it to your kids. And if the police decide you're overreacting, what you may decide to do is talk to your kids and figure out what they want you to do.

[Elgama]

I didn't realise it was until my daughter had started to move on, I am concerned we will take steps backwards if we do, Ellie is doing so well now.

[not_ashamed]

I am going to look like a raving nut case, but so far the only priesthood local leader to communicate with me has chosen to shout and disrespect and humiliate me at every opportunity.

All moms are a raving nut case when it comes to the safety and well being of our kids.

[Elgama]

All moms are a raving nut case when it comes to the safety and well being of our kids.

thats what I think and I am not sure how I can be an hysterical nag when no one has spoken to me about it. Have decided the gentlemen concerned will be getting another email, letting him know under any other circumstances I think he is a great guy, but what he did on Sunday did offend me, as a result of yet again not being listened too I feel like the church has rejected me I know in my head it hasn't but thats how it. Ifeels.. I don't need to be believed but I do need to be listened too

[Guest mormonmusic]

It looks like we may be moved units, and things will remain the same in my branch. I am finding it very difficult to understand that someone can bully and as long as they are a church member we are expected to take it, I am also finding it very difficult to understand that the children even after a year are still in a dangerous position.

Its made worse by the fact for the second time a member of the Stake Presidency has spoken to my husband because he is head of the family, yet no one has spoken to me. It was ME who sent the email refusing to sustain people, it was ME that was present at most of the events and ME it happened too. My husband says if I continue to push I am going to look like a raving nut case, but so far the only priesthood local leader to communicate with me has chosen to shout and disrespect and humiliate me at every opportunity. I really feel like no one who should give a damn does and I am struggling right now not to get too angry. Is it such a crime for me to ask my priesthood leaders to just spend ten minutes out of a year listening to me? I am right now seriously regretting not involving the authorities.

It feels very unjust all of this/

Elgama -- I've been following the various concerns you have about primary and what happened with your daughter through different threads. I hear you on the injustice you must be feeling. I too have felt the same thing in the church, such as when Spencer W. Kimball announced "every worthy young man should serve a mission" and then my Stake President told me to stay home and get married because I was too far in debt and he wasn't funding anyone's missions (even debt free converts) for a while anyway out of Church funds (too many people on missions at the time, and the Stake had borrowed to send them).

I ended up going on the mission anyway several years later, due to my own creativity and sweat, but the disconnect between the voice of the prophet and the words of my SP were difficult to bear. And there have been other instances that have felt like injustice -- different situations, but the same kind of bewilderment when something deeply important to you is dismissed as unimportant, or treated without empathy by local leaders.

So, in my experience, learning to deal with injustice is part of our life's experience. It's definitely not to be dismissed as unimportant -- I hope you don't read that into what I'm saying. And also, it's not something we should always take lying down; at times one needs to stand up and work for justice.

However, in this case, I don't see this changing. You've tried to deal with this a couple times now at different levels and the answer keeps coming back "null". You can't change the minds of these priesthood leaders, and it will only make you feel miserable toward the Church and even parts of your life to keep trying to resolve the situation through those channels.

My advice going forward is to recognize that what's happened isn't typical of one's experience in the Church. What happened may well be wrong, unjust, and hard to bear, but it's not typical. Also, liberate yourself from expecting Church leaders to always be perfect. They aren't always.

I said this before, but really, since you're moving into a new unit now, how about moving to a new Ward? Or even a new stake if feasible? One thing I like about the Church is that when you move, you get a fresh start. No one knows much of your history, and you can start anew.

I was semi-active in one Ward and made the mistake of voicing some concerns I had about a situation, and it left me without being taken seriously for some time in the Ward I attended. Then I moved to a new area and immediately got called into the Bishopric. What a stark change, just by moving.

The Church is important to you, I can see that -- and so is the influence of a healthy primary experience to your daughter -- to counteract the negative experience she's already had. Consider moving into new circumstances. Or, try attending a different Ward where at least your daughter can get some good exposure and benefits of the gospel and primary during these impressionable years. The years fly by quickly and then the window of opportunity to teach them when they are fully receptive is closed; don't waste it by trying to solve the problem by working with local leaders who aren't showing much responsiveness to your situation.

I hope this helps. I've taken this advice before, so I'm not shooting from the hip. It worked for me. And I got into a much better situation, and my spiritual progress improved -- so did the spirituality of my family as well as my personal happiness.

Edited June 14, 2010 by mormonmusic

[Elgama]

we can't really move for two years after that we will be able too, I am trying to get the Stake President to move my details to another church unit so we can attend another ward properly, we can get our recommends etc, however it will be involving a 60-70 mile round trip every week, something that is going to be hard for us, I am prepared to do it, but its frustrating as I live only 5 minutes walk from my branch.

I'm not really blaming the church but do feel fed up right now. And even if we do move on children are left in a vulnerable situation as are several adults. I just don't want to hear that a child has been hurt I guess.

[Suzie]

I didn't realise it was until my daughter had started to move on, I am concerned we will take steps backwards if we do, Ellie is doing so well now.

Hi Elgama. Sorry about what you are going through. I do not know the details but it sounds serious. Maybe Ellie is doing really well now but maybe there are other kids suffering the same way she did and their parents are unaware. I don't think it's nuts at all that you are pushing this and if the Stake authorities haven't spoke to you, you should probably make an appointment with them and meet them. If nothing happens, you should contact your area authority and so on, the Church does not like to hear about abuse cases at all, so I know they will move quickly once you get someone SERIOUS enough to deal with it.

[Hemidakota]

Its made worse by the fact for the second time a member of the Stake Presidency has spoken to my husband because he is head of the family, yet no one has spoken to me.

It is your right in not sustaining the calling Elgama. Did you in fact raise your hand as a negative reply? You indicated it was done through e-mail. If so, a member of either the branch or stake presidency should have contacted you privately. Perhaps, I reading this wrong. I know, this is heart wrenching in seeing such actions is unwarranted.

You may need to remind your husband in allowing you to be the recipient of the message. Perhaps, you need to make an appointment to meet with one of the presidency to voice your concerns.

[Elgama]

It is your right in not sustaining the calling Elgama. Did you in fact raise your hand as a negative reply? You indicated it was done through e-mail. If so, a member of either the branch or stake presidency should have contacted you privately. Perhaps, I reading this wrong. I know, this is heart wrenching in seeing such actions is unwarranted.

You may need to remind your husband in allowing you to be the recipient of the message. Perhaps, you need to make an appointment to meet with one of the presidency to voice your concerns.

I was too ill to attend otherwise I would have done but by Saturday night it was obvious I wasn't go anywhere except the sofa on Sunday, so my husband phoned Saturday night, and the Counsellor arranged to come round afterwards, this is the second time he has come round and ONLY spoken to my husband,

I cannot sustain a Primary President who I believe has abused my child and I cannot sustain a branch president that continues after a year to not take the basic precautions laid down in the church handbook of instructions. That is all I have at this stage asked for is the children to be moved back in the rooms with glass in the doors and for there to be teachers without any question in there. Getting people to serve in primary in my branch is not an issue/. When I first asked for this it would have merely involved the children going back into the rooms where they have been for the past 10+ years and the class teachers swapping round that would have kept my daughter safe at least.

I am not going to any authorities my daughter is dealing with techniques through a psychologist and is moving on really well, its been so nice lately the tantrums have all gone, the attitude is dropping, she is no longer having nightmares. I will not at this stage even let a church leader speak to her, as Ellie has been through enough. There are no unaware parents right now however the branch president has two foster children one of which is in the class I am concerned about

Edited June 14, 2010 by Elgama

[applepansy]

Elgama, I hear your frustration and hurt. Make an appointment, send another email... what ever it takes to be heard. Your husband needs to explain to the Stake Presidency that they need to talk to you, not him. And my mamma bear claws come out even with my grandson. You're ok.

Maybe if you and your husband attend with your children somebody will get the point, eventually. Sometimes children need support from their parents and its your right to be in class with them. If you need to be in more than one class then your husband is going to have to pitch in and be in a primary class with his child. Yes, this can interfere with callings. But the children are the most important consideration. Making sure their early church experiences are good ones more important that any thing else.

My grandfather used to say "The church is there for families, not families for the church." Sometimes we get so wrapped up in service that we forget that "charity begins at home."

I do know that we receive trials of faith. This could be one for you. Hang on. This is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, not the Church of Latter-day Saints People make mistakes. And God uses people to teach us, serve us, help us.

[Elgama]

Thats the problem its been more than clear I am not welcome in primary and when I go in the Sister goes out of her way to humilate me which didn't help Ellie. I also have the issue that Ellie's seizures have been discovered to be severe panic attacks mere mention of going back to church and they come back. It happened yesterday. In order to for me to keep Ellie safe she will have to be kept with me the whole time we are there, she will need to watch the other chldren play on the field afterwards etc, she cannot go to the toilet on her own etc,,,, plus she gets to see that the person abused her was right, she appears to have told her that if she told her Mummy, noone would believe her Mummy and her Mummy would get into trouble

Heavenly Father is right if we want to get Ellie through eternity we are not going to do it at that branch right now, her church experience from 3-5 has turned out to have been one of fear, I won't have that continue. I am beginning to think all we can do is work out how on earth to move.

My basic testimony isn't affected I am just upset and hurt, I'll probably be over that soon enough but right now I feel like I have been forced out of church and noone wants me back which I also know is stupid I shouldn't feel that way, its not true and I am being silly. I also know it will all be made well Heavenly Father has promised that, just right now with everything else in my life and being in so much pain and fatigue I am at a stage I don't want to cope but I have too. I am not looking for a way to stay out, I am desperate to go back, Heavenly Father has promised my testimony would grow through all of this and it has but that has been a double edged sword, as it makes me ache for church more

Edited June 14, 2010 by Elgama
add last paragraph

[applepansy]

You're in my prayers El... and your names are on the temple prayer roll.

I know that when we place our problems in the hands of the Lord and verbally tell him we accept His solution in His time frame, everything works out for our best interest. It doesn't always feel like it at the time but it in retrospect you can see where He carried you or Ellie, or your family.

[Hemidakota]

Thats the problem its been more than clear I am not welcome in primary and when I go in the Sister goes out of her way to humilate me which didn't help Ellie. I also have the issue that Ellie's seizures have been discovered to be severe panic attacks mere mention of going back to church and they come back. It happened yesterday. In order to for me to keep Ellie safe she will have to be kept with me the whole time we are there, she will need to watch the other chldren play on the field afterwards etc, she cannot go to the toilet on her own etc,,,, plus she gets to see that the person abused her was right, she appears to have told her that if she told her Mummy, noone would believe her Mummy and her Mummy would get into trouble

Heavenly Father is right if we want to get Ellie through eternity we are not going to do it at that branch right now, her church experience from 3-5 has turned out to have been one of fear, I won't have that continue. I am beginning to think all we can do is work out how on earth to move.

My basic testimony isn't affected I am just upset and hurt, I'll probably be over that soon enough but right now I feel like I have been forced out of church and noone wants me back which I also know is stupid I shouldn't feel that way, its not true and I am being silly. I also know it will all be made well Heavenly Father has promised that, just right now with everything else in my life and being in so much pain and fatigue I am at a stage I don't want to cope but I have too. I am not looking for a way to stay out, I am desperate to go back, Heavenly Father has promised my testimony would grow through all of this and it has but that has been a double edged sword, as it makes me ache for church more

Bear for it for a season and do the right for your family. Trials of fire have a purpose for all of our lives but you will be blessed for it. It is a sore grievance what I seen by your posting with members in the church, even posting of a few here, and why justice is slow to make changes. I can only imagine what the Lord sees on a grander scale with others. But we are told the cleansing is coming soon but how soon is up to the Lord and currently preventable by Elias as told by John in Revelations with members and non-members alike in this world.

I know it is hard to be patience at moment and being a wonderful parent you are, your desire for the best for your children and family is a major concern. Just have bear down and may have to attend another branch or ward for a time if possible. If not, I wish I could hug you at this time as a brother in the Gospel for saying, we love you and care for you.

I draw concurrence with Applepansy statement, I will do my part in seeking an address with the Lord in prayer and fasting this weekend.

[Suzie]

Elgama, I am just curious as to what your Branch President/Stake President say about your allegations? Is it that they don't think you're saying the truth or is it that they think that what this woman did isn't "serious" enough to release her? Basically what do they say?

[Elgama]

Thanks everyone I am feeling better a lot of it was I had raised my hopes up there might be a way back to church, and it was dashed, I actually have a date on my calender by which I fully intended to return to church and we are many months away from the 16th October (I went and checked it lol) that was the day I got the blessing asking us to step aside.

Suzie Branch President has put it down to me being vindictive towards the woman concerened for what she had done to me at an earlier time, or I mistake her motives.

I honestly have no clue about the Stake President I have never met him, I don't know who he is

[Suzie]

Suzie Branch President has put it down to me being vindictive towards the woman concerened for what she had done to me at an earlier time, or I mistake her motives.

Vindictive? Wow. I can imagine how frustrated you must be feeling. I am also a very protective mom and I cannot imagine anyone hurting my little ones. I hope things work out and this lady can also get some help because she obviously needs it.

[Wingnut]

I don't understand why you don't call the Stake Executive Secretary and make an appointment for yourself with the Stake President. You need to stop whining about being circumvented, and stand up for yourself! Sending an email obviously hasn't worked in the past. Make an appointment and show up for it.

[Voyager]

Thanks everyone I am feeling better a lot of it was I had raised my hopes up there might be a way back to church, and it was dashed, I actually have a date on my calender by which I fully intended to return to church and we are many months away from the 16th October (I went and checked it lol) that was the day I got the blessing asking us to step aside.

Suzie Branch President has put it down to me being vindictive towards the woman concerened for what she had done to me at an earlier time, or I mistake her motives.

I honestly have no clue about the Stake President I have never met him, I don't know who he is

I would seriously go to higher authorities. The Church is set up to where if people at the local level are not doing what is right then there is always taking it higher. Hang in there and remember that how we care for our families is of far greater concern to our Heavenly Father than how some branch leaders might feel.

[Suzie]

I would seriously go to higher authorities. The Church is set up to where if people at the local level are not doing what is right then there is always taking it higher.

The problem is that when you contact higher authorities, your letter goes right back to your local leaders.

[Hemidakota]

I was too ill to attend otherwise I would have done but by Saturday night it was obvious I wasn't go anywhere except the sofa on Sunday, so my husband phoned Saturday night, and the Counsellor arranged to come round afterwards, this is the second time he has come round and ONLY spoken to my husband,

That is what I thought; any negative response, someone from the Stake Presidency should of visited you.

But the second time, he should talked to you after visiting your husband.